Return postage costs - online faulty item, within 30 days

[Danns]

Afternoon all,

I've had a quick search on this, but finding an exact answer that doesn't include "should" instead of must is proving difficult.

Long story short, bought a new Stihl pressure washer from an online retailer. (1st September)

Second time using it (less than 14 days after being delivered) it has developed a fault - leaking water from inside when hose connected.

Online retailers first response; "Take it to a Stihl service centre."

(I called up the nearest 3 (40 minutes away), looking at a 4 week wait for it to be inspected)

I replied saying that wait isn't acceptable, as faulty and within 30 days I like to return for a refund.

This thing weighs 20 something KG, retailer refusing to cover return postage costs.

Their words "As the pressure washer was working on receipt this is for you to have the machine returned to us if you want to proceed with a refund. "

Now I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem quite right that I have to pay to return a faulty item? fair enough if 6 months down the line, but this is all of 2 weeks old!

Cheers in advance.

Dan

ETA- paid with credit card

Also ETA

Found the following template on the matter, about as good as its going get? I'm quite aware at the moment of going guns blazing with a small business... people get riled up, dig heels in and refuse to co-operate etc.


[Your address and contact number]

[Company/supplier's address]

[Date]



Dear Sir/Madam,

Reference: [order number]

On [date], I placed an order for a [item] and it was delivered by you on [date].

I have discovered that the [item] has the following problem: [give details].

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 makes it an implied term of the contract that goods be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.

Any returns policy that says I have to cover the cost of returning items must only relate to the situation where I change my mind about the item ordered and not where there is a problem with the item.

I should not lose out financially as a result of your breach of contract and accordingly all costs of returning the item should be met by you.

I also require you to confirm whether you will arrange for [the item] to be collected or will reimburse me for the cost of returning it.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]

Edited by Danns on Thursday 16th September 15:58

[jesusbuiltmycar]

I believe that under the Consumer Rights Act they should cover postage - unfortunately enforcing your rights is impossible..

My wife bought something last year, UK advert shipped and delivered within 48 hours (so obviously shipped from within the UK). The item wouldn't charge and was clearly faulty. The supplying company would only provide an address in China for returning faulty items, and the shipping cost was as much as the item had cost...

Reported to Trading Standards and their response was "nothing we can do"...

[deggles]

Section 75 claim on your credit card - send them all the correspondence to date. Sit back and wait for money to land in your account

Worked for me in the past with Barclaycard, can even do it all online, but YMMV.

[Danns]

Cheers guys,

They have responded saying they are well aware of CRA. (I have a feeling they aren’t)

And still on about showing images to their technician to see if it’s a fault I’ve caused etc.

I frankly don’t really trust them if I’m honest.

Will see how it’s pans out and then get in contact with CC co.

[Chris32345]

deggles said:

Section 75 claim on your credit card - send them all the correspondence to date. Sit back and wait for money to land in your account

Worked for me in the past with Barclaycard, can even do it all online, but YMMV.

And for the people that dont have/don't want credit cards

[Ian Geary]

Chris32345 said:

deggles said:

Section 75 claim on your credit card - send them all the correspondence to date. Sit back and wait for money to land in your account

Worked for me in the past with Barclaycard, can even do it all online, but YMMV.

And for the people that dont have/don't want credit cards

Then get used to writing pointless letters whilst you lose out financially.

I do recall debit cards have some sort of protection, but this protection has always been a big advantage of credit cards.

As this thread aptly demonstrates.

I can't imagine why someone"wouldn't" want a credit card on a point of principal. Not having one can easily be solved by, er, applying for one?

[mcpoot]

Chris32345 said:

deggles said:

Section 75 claim on your credit card - send them all the correspondence to date. Sit back and wait for money to land in your account

Worked for me in the past with Barclaycard, can even do it all online, but YMMV.

And for the people that dont have/don't want credit cards

Sorry, I'm unable to help as I stopped using coloured beads sometime in the last century.

[Pip1968]

mcpoot said:

Sorry, I'm unable to help as I stopped using coloured beads sometime in the last century.

Possibly a little narrow minded on your side.I know of people who don't want or have a credit card. Once you have got yourself into serious debt having a credit card is how shall I put it ....'very low on your list of wants or needs'. It's a bit like a recovered alcoholic having a drinks cabinet.

That aside I thought debit cards too were covered by this protection.

Pip

[Dark Star]

Debit cards have the charge back rule where as the credit card has the section 75 consumer credit act protection.
The credit card offers a more stable and guaranteed form of protection.
Each debit card has its own slight variation on charge back where as the section 75 is applicable to all the credit cards.

I don’t do credit in the true sense of the meaning but I do have a credit card for the consumer protection aspect of buying goods.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

How much realistically is it going to cost you to send back? Could you not just wait the four weeks until the Stihl Service Centre can inspect it?

I do agree that it isn't great service from the retailer you bought it from but this is one of the pitfalls of buying 'big' items online from miles away.

My local hardware store (if you can call them that) sells a good range of Stihl, Husqvarna, Mountfield, Stiga, Hayter etc outdoor equipment and is very keenly priced against the internet sellers. Even so sometimes I find that it can be worth paying a few quid more just for that backup if it all goes wrong.

[Captain Answer]

Dark Star said:

Debit cards have the charge back rule where as the credit card has the section 75 consumer credit act protection.
The credit card offers a more stable and guaranteed form of protection.
Each debit card has its own slight variation on charge back where as the section 75 is applicable to all the credit cards.

I don’t do credit in the true sense of the meaning but I do have a credit card for the consumer protection aspect of buying goods.

As above, section 75 stuff is very useful protection when buying online. I just use a card with a small limit and pay off full amount via a monzo transfer immediately after buying

This proved incredibly useful last year refunding a hire car and some parking reserved for a holiday when the retailers didn't want to play ball in refunding

[largespiced]

It is little wonder why people buy so much from Amazon when you get treated like this from other online retailers.

[Danns]

largespiced said:

It is little wonder why people buy so much from Amazon when you get treated like this from other online retailers.

Agreed, and usually my go to, however in this instance the Amazon price is £75 above rrp, and they usually sell for around £80 under rrp so quite a difference!

Just for the record, as it has become quite the topic, in 12 years of having CC's, I've never missed paying the whole amount off each month. I've always used for the extra protection on purchases/credit score boost, but never had to use it in anger. (apart from card being cloned a couple of times)

[Danns]

Matt_E_Mulsion said:

How much realistically is it going to cost you to send back? Could you not just wait the four weeks until the Stihl Service Centre can inspect it?

I do agree that it isn't great service from the retailer you bought it from but this is one of the pitfalls of buying 'big' items online from miles away.

My local hardware store (if you can call them that) sells a good range of Stihl, Husqvarna, Mountfield, Stiga, Hayter etc outdoor equipment and is very keenly priced against the internet sellers. Even so sometimes I find that it can be worth paying a few quid more just for that backup if it all goes wrong.

I just checked, actually DPD is £20 for up to 30kg which is reasonable. My other concern however with these guys is that they have stated if I send it back, its my responsibility if it gets damaged (nice little get out for them there too! )

I tried the local place, and would have preferred to buy from there but they refused to budge on RRP on the unit. Online (and at the usual shop i go to for Stihl equipment) is always below RRP and usually with a free attachment thrown in. Would have been over £100 more to buy locally.

On the waiting 4 weeks, seems flippant, but why should I? That's 4 weeks for inspection + parts + another booking to repair Not to mention my time in getting there / back twice. All 3 service centres stated "we'll have to see if its a warranty covered item that's failed" - ermm, its brand new, I'm not getting into that debate.

Ideal situation is I'd send back and buy from another retailer that I have used for Stihl gear before (they had no stock at the time)

[Monsterlime]

largespiced said:

It is little wonder why people buy so much from Amazon when you get treated like this from other online retailers.

I said the very same to a large online/physical retailer who don't actually sell a curry from around the world recently re a faulty laptop (on day of delivery) and their subsequent response/handling of it. They no longer have my money.

[98elise]

Danns said:

Matt_E_Mulsion said:

How much realistically is it going to cost you to send back? Could you not just wait the four weeks until the Stihl Service Centre can inspect it?

I do agree that it isn't great service from the retailer you bought it from but this is one of the pitfalls of buying 'big' items online from miles away.

My local hardware store (if you can call them that) sells a good range of Stihl, Husqvarna, Mountfield, Stiga, Hayter etc outdoor equipment and is very keenly priced against the internet sellers. Even so sometimes I find that it can be worth paying a few quid more just for that backup if it all goes wrong.

I just checked, actually DPD is £20 for up to 30kg which is reasonable. My other concern however with these guys is that they have stated if I send it back, its my responsibility if it gets damaged (nice little get out for them there too! )

I tried the local place, and would have preferred to buy from there but they refused to budge on RRP on the unit. Online (and at the usual shop i go to for Stihl equipment) is always below RRP and usually with a free attachment thrown in. Would have been over £100 more to buy locally.

On the waiting 4 weeks, seems flippant, but why should I? That's 4 weeks for inspection + parts + another booking to repair Not to mention my time in getting there / back twice. All 3 service centres stated "we'll have to see if its a warranty covered item that's failed" - ermm, its brand new, I'm not getting into that debate.

This is why you always go back to the supplier with faults, not the manufacturer.

You have a contract with the supplier not the manufacturer, and you have consumer rights. If you send it to the manufacturer you are doing so with zero comeback, and you are at their mercy.

I would tell the supplier you will happily send it to them, but they must deal with the supplier.

Every time I've had to deal with a manufacturer they have been crap. As you are finding you have to pay for postage, and they get to decide if your claim is valid. If they do think it's valid they will more than likely send you a second hand repaired unit.

I learned this lesson many years ago and it's stuck with me.

Edited by 98elise on Friday 17th September 18:45

[Danns]

Just to add, all of my dealings are with the supplier here!

Even now, they are wasting my time trying to diagnose it, and haven’t accepted my “it’s faulty 30 days return for refund at their expense”

[Fastdruid]

98elise said:

Danns said:

Matt_E_Mulsion said:

How much realistically is it going to cost you to send back? Could you not just wait the four weeks until the Stihl Service Centre can inspect it?

I do agree that it isn't great service from the retailer you bought it from but this is one of the pitfalls of buying 'big' items online from miles away.

My local hardware store (if you can call them that) sells a good range of Stihl, Husqvarna, Mountfield, Stiga, Hayter etc outdoor equipment and is very keenly priced against the internet sellers. Even so sometimes I find that it can be worth paying a few quid more just for that backup if it all goes wrong.

I just checked, actually DPD is £20 for up to 30kg which is reasonable. My other concern however with these guys is that they have stated if I send it back, its my responsibility if it gets damaged (nice little get out for them there too! )

I tried the local place, and would have preferred to buy from there but they refused to budge on RRP on the unit. Online (and at the usual shop i go to for Stihl equipment) is always below RRP and usually with a free attachment thrown in. Would have been over £100 more to buy locally.

On the waiting 4 weeks, seems flippant, but why should I? That's 4 weeks for inspection + parts + another booking to repair Not to mention my time in getting there / back twice. All 3 service centres stated "we'll have to see if its a warranty covered item that's failed" - ermm, its brand new, I'm not getting into that debate.

This is why you always go back to the supplier with faults, not the manufacturer.

You have a contract with the supplier not the manufacturer, and you have consumer rights. If you send it to the manufacturer you are doing so with zero comeback, and you are at their mercy.

I would tell the supplier you will happily send it to them, but they must deal with the supplier.

Every time I've had to deal with a manufacturer they have been crap. As you are finding you have to pay for postage, and they get to decide if your claim is valid. If they do think it's valid they will more then likely send you a second hand repaired unit.

I learned this lesson many years ago and it's stuck with me.

^*This*

If you send it to the manufacturer under their warranty then legally you have *zero* rights.

If you send it to the supplier then legally they have to sort it according to the CRA.

I ran into this issue with a phone that got "lost" while being fixed during the "warranty". Because I dealt with and sent it to the manufacturer rather than the supplier I had nothing I could do other than complain on ttter and email the CEO (which did admittedly get it sorted but it took a month).

[blingybongy]

Next time buy it here.

Stihl RE 90 HYDROWASHER, 10-100BAR, 520L/H, Weight 9.6 kg, Set for SPRAYING AND NOZZLE ROTARY AND FLAT with Hose Length 6M. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07YXYM78N/ref=cm_sw_r...

[Danns]

blingybongy said:

Next time buy it here.

Stihl RE 90 HYDROWASHER, 10-100BAR, 520L/H, Weight 9.6 kg, Set for SPRAYING AND NOZZLE ROTARY AND FLAT with Hose Length 6M. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07YXYM78N/ref=cm_sw_r...

It is this one;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stihl-Plus-Electric-Press...

Available around £325 with patio cleaner from my usual go to store (online and a physical store) - back in stock now.

That is a £180 saving!