Police shooting - whinging people !
Discussion
FFS, people are whinging that the bloke on the tube got shot. FFS, he was being followed since the previous day having had some kind of involvement in the attempted bombings, he was wearing a big heavy coat on a hot day in the tube system (tube system is 5 to 7C hotter than outside), he jumped over a turnstyle and refused to stop when asked by armed plod . . . he ran onto a train . . .
Can't believe the Muslim council are saying they want the police to "justify their actions" - they can
off ! All the liberel lentalists - they can off too. This bloke was probably as close as you get to a live suicide bomber and what happened had to happen. The plod should have our support for this not snide comments about civil liberties. They could easily have been killed had there been a bomb.
It's not often I think the plod act in an impressive way but I have to say they have been great with the recent bombings, at least given the limited info the public have.
>> Edited by busa_rush on Saturday 23 July 09:27
Can't believe the Muslim council are saying they want the police to "justify their actions" - they can
off ! All the liberel lentalists - they can off too. This bloke was probably as close as you get to a live suicide bomber and what happened had to happen. The plod should have our support for this not snide comments about civil liberties. They could easily have been killed had there been a bomb. It's not often I think the plod act in an impressive way but I have to say they have been great with the recent bombings, at least given the limited info the public have.
>> Edited by busa_rush on Saturday 23 July 09:27
Have to say I agree with you entirely on this one. The police acted in a very positive way and IMHO did a fantastic job.
The whingers can't be pleased either way, can you imagine what they'd be saying if this person hadn't been shot and detonated a bomb?
Either way the police are in a no win situation.
The whingers can't be pleased either way, can you imagine what they'd be saying if this person hadn't been shot and detonated a bomb?
Either way the police are in a no win situation.
Couldn't agree more.
Can you imagine the uproar if the guy had gotten onto a train and detonated a bomb, which killed dozens of people?
Shootings by the police are rare in this country. We don't have trigger happly plod going around shooting folk indiscriminately. When they do, the do so only as a last resort.
Never nice when someone has to die; but "needs must when the devil drives".
Can you imagine the uproar if the guy had gotten onto a train and detonated a bomb, which killed dozens of people?
Shootings by the police are rare in this country. We don't have trigger happly plod going around shooting folk indiscriminately. When they do, the do so only as a last resort.
Never nice when someone has to die; but "needs must when the devil drives".
Doubt it was the police, they aren't trained to do that. Special forces or M16.
Great effort by them, FFS they guy was a suicide bomber - he's going to kill himself anyway, this stopped him taking anyone with him.
I agree with the MCB, let them justify their actions though - it'll be a no brainer and will end the whinging.
Great effort by them, FFS they guy was a suicide bomber - he's going to kill himself anyway, this stopped him taking anyone with him.
I agree with the MCB, let them justify their actions though - it'll be a no brainer and will end the whinging.
Chances of it being a policeman runnig after the guy and unloading five shots into him is surely pretty small. I didn't think armed police were trained in this way. Gone?
Secret service type blokey seems more likely, so hopefully so action against him.
Do they already know he was muslim? If not, then why did the MCB ask for justification? Not all asians are muslims...
Secret service type blokey seems more likely, so hopefully so action against him.
Do they already know he was muslim? If not, then why did the MCB ask for justification? Not all asians are muslims...
DeMolay said:Better hope it's not you next then. Here are some tips:
Never nice when someone has to die; but "needs must when the devil drives".
1) Walk around stark-naked.
2) When three strangers start to chase you, shouting unintelligibly, remember to stop.
3) Always buy a tube ticket.
4) When face down on the floor with two men holding you ... expect to take five bullets in the back of your head.
5) Hope that someone claims this was a racially-motivated attack ... and then watch the law unzip.
Seriously, various witnesses have stated that they heard no coherent calls of (e.g.) "Armed police", or "Halt", or "Stop". Others have stated that the suspect was pinned down by two men before the third shot him five times. Their testimony to camera was very believable and given very shortly after the incident ... before their version of events could be 'coached'.
Now, just suppose one of the tube train passengers was of dark complexion, bearded and carrying a rucksack, and on hearing the commotion ran from the train ... what's the betting they would have been shot too?
The "devil" that is driving is B'Liar ... you know, the man who has the 400 yards between his home and 'the office' cleared on the odd occasions he deigns to go there; the man who, with his friends, was protected by vast numbers of police drafted from all over the UK when they had a practically useless party in Scotland; the man who lied through his teeth to support his pal Bush and thereby caused the deaths of servicemen he sheds only crocodile tears for; the man who then turned against the very servicemen who did his bidding and crushed the life out of their regiments and squadrons; the man who doesn't give a f
k about your safety, so long as he survives to sell his memoirs to pay his mortgage. And remember, before you jump all over me, I have been blown up, have discharged firearms at people with intent to kill, and have been wounded myself.
Streaky
I find it a bit disconcerting that the 'suspect' was killed rather than shot to be captured, surely more info could have been gleaned from a live slightly damaged suspect than a dead one.
On another note two days after the first atrocities in London I had to wear a 24 hour ECG portable recorder, after fitting it I went to my local town to buy some clothes and after removing my shirt in a changing room realised I must have looked very dodgy - black belt with pouch on with wires attached to my body. Came home straight away spent rest of 24 hours at home, which wasn't really the point of the ecg as I was supposed to do normal activities with it on. Good job I didn't attract the attention of secret service/gun toting person. I fit the age bracket and gender of suspects!
On another note two days after the first atrocities in London I had to wear a 24 hour ECG portable recorder, after fitting it I went to my local town to buy some clothes and after removing my shirt in a changing room realised I must have looked very dodgy - black belt with pouch on with wires attached to my body. Came home straight away spent rest of 24 hours at home, which wasn't really the point of the ecg as I was supposed to do normal activities with it on. Good job I didn't attract the attention of secret service/gun toting person. I fit the age bracket and gender of suspects!
Since it seems the police were from the SO19 (?) special ops unit I guess they are operating under specific instructions and rules of engagement.
From the previous day they would know that there was some risk of any bomb the guy might be carrying being both unstable and possibly packed with nails and bolts.
The suspect has been pre-identified and is being followed. From what I have read his route may even have been predicted in advance.
He acts very suspiciously and doesn't stop when it really should be obvious that it would be a good idea to do so.
And, in the end, there is a message to get across since it seems that those who would be happy to die for their cause are also happy to escape from their failure to martyr themselves.
Bliar may have a lot to answer for but attempting to randomly maim people with nail bombs seems to be a rather unacceptable way to get back at him.
From the previous day they would know that there was some risk of any bomb the guy might be carrying being both unstable and possibly packed with nails and bolts.
The suspect has been pre-identified and is being followed. From what I have read his route may even have been predicted in advance.
He acts very suspiciously and doesn't stop when it really should be obvious that it would be a good idea to do so.
And, in the end, there is a message to get across since it seems that those who would be happy to die for their cause are also happy to escape from their failure to martyr themselves.
Bliar may have a lot to answer for but attempting to randomly maim people with nail bombs seems to be a rather unacceptable way to get back at him.
Streaky,
Like most people, I have heard only third-hand accounts of what actually happened. What I do know is that incidents of this nature are very, very rare.
What I have heard is that a guy who was already under police surveillance (who was wearing a heavy coat on a hot day) was wearing a rucksack and was told to stop by plain clothes officers. He didn't do this and ran for the tube. He was subsequently pinned down, where 4 shots were unloaded into the man's face.
Conclusions? The only possible justification for them doing this is that they thought the guy was carrying a bomb and was goint to detonate it on the tube carriage. I'll reiterate: what were the alternatives?
Like most people, I have heard only third-hand accounts of what actually happened. What I do know is that incidents of this nature are very, very rare.
What I have heard is that a guy who was already under police surveillance (who was wearing a heavy coat on a hot day) was wearing a rucksack and was told to stop by plain clothes officers. He didn't do this and ran for the tube. He was subsequently pinned down, where 4 shots were unloaded into the man's face.
Conclusions? The only possible justification for them doing this is that they thought the guy was carrying a bomb and was goint to detonate it on the tube carriage. I'll reiterate: what were the alternatives?
Said it on the thread in P&P - ist probably MI5 who tracked und had to kill. Unconfrimed newspaper report - possibly journo-spec - but was repeated by TV media too (but same source - same leak?) said tip off came from previous day's rucksack explosion.
Perhaps they got nervous when he entered Tube Station und decided to act before anything happened? But this ist speculation - nicht?
But have to say - ist a very strange business. Lot of things seem to have similarities mit an episode of "Spooks!"
Perhaps they got nervous when he entered Tube Station und decided to act before anything happened? But this ist speculation - nicht?
But have to say - ist a very strange business. Lot of things seem to have similarities mit an episode of "Spooks!"
The Security Services, i.e MI5 are not armed. The Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) i.e. MI6 keep a much lower public profile in the UK, and also 'should' not carry a firearm.
The person(s) who shot this guy would almost certainly have been Met SO19 Officers who have been retrained in terms of rules of engagement to tackle this specific threat. Traditionally, Police have always opened fire with a "Shoot to Stop" policy. One or two shots into a man wearing a heavy coat may not be sufficient to stop him activating a bomb. Hence, the possible justification for pinning him down and then shooting several times. Imagine if you had hold of a sweaty arm, trying to cuff him and he wriggled free, and got his hand in his pocket to flick a switch?
The person(s) who shot this guy would almost certainly have been Met SO19 Officers who have been retrained in terms of rules of engagement to tackle this specific threat. Traditionally, Police have always opened fire with a "Shoot to Stop" policy. One or two shots into a man wearing a heavy coat may not be sufficient to stop him activating a bomb. Hence, the possible justification for pinning him down and then shooting several times. Imagine if you had hold of a sweaty arm, trying to cuff him and he wriggled free, and got his hand in his pocket to flick a switch?
people will whine whatever happens.
I would imagine they didn't blast him 5 times out of spite! what the press report and how can often be a lot different that what happened and why !!
as for the eye witness, did they follow the suspect for 24 hours to know he was only making a run for it??
saying that in future they only need equip the bombers with presure switches, the youred if you shoot and ed if you dont !!
until someone gives me solid proof whoever acted out of unlawfull intent - then I for one will support the current shoot to kill policy - while walking around naked !!
I would imagine they didn't blast him 5 times out of spite! what the press report and how can often be a lot different that what happened and why !!
as for the eye witness, did they follow the suspect for 24 hours to know he was only making a run for it??
saying that in future they only need equip the bombers with presure switches, the your
ed if you shoot and ed if you dont !! until someone gives me solid proof whoever acted out of unlawfull intent - then I for one will support the current shoot to kill policy - while walking around naked !!
You've got to be on the side of the police on this one, until the facts are known nobody should whinge about their actions. I just really hope that they got this right and if he was even just the tiniest bit connected to any of the bombings/bombers he got what he deserved, well probably better than he deserved.
What's really worrying is how they can produce 4 pics of suspected bombers and yet they've not all been arrested yet. Somebody knows where they are.
What's really worrying is how they can produce 4 pics of suspected bombers and yet they've not all been arrested yet. Somebody knows where they are.
busa_rush said:
Police just announced that the shot man wasn't anything to do with the bombings the day before - doesn't alter my opinion though.
Good God man - what *would* it take to alter your opinion then?
So the victim was chased by plain clothed officers - for all he knew he could have been about to be beaten up by some yobs, so he ran off.
I have to agree - my opinion doesn't change even if this bloke is "unconnected" with the current terrorist attacks. He was followed, trailed no less for some time. It was an intelligence lead operation and all of the evidence at the time pointed directly to a terrorist threat.....
When the bloke legged it and was chased he didnt hang around. Just imagine you in the same situation - you notice you were being followed. What do you do? Peg it to the nearest underground and jump over the barriers or stop, and try to get this resolved? Not suggesting that this bloke had anything to hide or was innocent.... but given the current climate, do you really think it is sensible to peg it off when chased by armed police?
Tragic end to the whole situation. A waste of a life, but I still stand by my comment of "it sends out a clear signal". Push the boundaries and you will have deadly force used against you. Mistakes will happen and it seems that this was the worst kind.....
Edited to add : the bloke was chased from Stockwell somewhere and several warnings were given. The fact that the people on the train didnt hear anything does not have any bearing on the situation. In fact passengers in the station (just outside the train) reported hearing the police say "police, get down" and "armed police, move out the way"..... all of which constitute a clear and precise warning to me....
Just because the bloke reported on the train didnt hear anything - dont assume that nothing was said.
>> Edited by off_again on Saturday 23 July 18:07
When the bloke legged it and was chased he didnt hang around. Just imagine you in the same situation - you notice you were being followed. What do you do? Peg it to the nearest underground and jump over the barriers or stop, and try to get this resolved? Not suggesting that this bloke had anything to hide or was innocent.... but given the current climate, do you really think it is sensible to peg it off when chased by armed police?
Tragic end to the whole situation. A waste of a life, but I still stand by my comment of "it sends out a clear signal". Push the boundaries and you will have deadly force used against you. Mistakes will happen and it seems that this was the worst kind.....
Edited to add : the bloke was chased from Stockwell somewhere and several warnings were given. The fact that the people on the train didnt hear anything does not have any bearing on the situation. In fact passengers in the station (just outside the train) reported hearing the police say "police, get down" and "armed police, move out the way"..... all of which constitute a clear and precise warning to me....
Just because the bloke reported on the train didnt hear anything - dont assume that nothing was said.
>> Edited by off_again on Saturday 23 July 18:07
Only recently fifty odd people, werent' given the luxury of choice, to stop or be killed, just summarily blown up, going about the daily routine of earning a crust.
If your appearence/clothing/accesories, arouse suspicion, given recent events, and possibly try and leg it through, a busy public place, pursued by business looking people with a gun, then you might reasonably expect, to meet your maker pretty soon,
And why not take some innocents with you.
Well done, whoever shot him, shoot first ask questions later. which is more than likely the advice,
given by law & order, types, used to facing this threat
If your appearence/clothing/accesories, arouse suspicion, given recent events, and possibly try and leg it through, a busy public place, pursued by business looking people with a gun, then you might reasonably expect, to meet your maker pretty soon,
And why not take some innocents with you.
Well done, whoever shot him, shoot first ask questions later. which is more than likely the advice,
given by law & order, types, used to facing this threat
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