HPI were "unaware" vehicle was reported stolen - HELP
Discussion
Long story short. I bought a motorbike on the 7th of August, barn find I bought off someone who deals in house clearance and rubbish removals. Bike was a mess, clearly sitting for years, brakes seized, bits of vegetation stuck in the wheels and frame, it was a track bike with no numberplate so I did a free Isitnicked search on the vin which confirmed it was NOT stolen. I bought the bike for £500 and promptly flipped it on Ebay as a non running project with no keys or paperwork but showed a picture of the VIN and stated that I had done a check and it was not stolen ect. Bike sold and on the 18th the buyer did a full HPI before his friend came down to collect it, once all clear he transferred me the funds and everyone was happy. Today he has contacted me and sent a picture of a letter HPI have sent him which states "At the time of your enquiry, we were unaware that the above vehicle was stolen" "After processing your enquiry we subsequently received notification of the following interest and are now providing you with this info" The info states the date of theft as 2nd August (4 days before I did my first free check on it) and confirms the buyer did his check on the 18th August. Now the buyer has contacted me asking how to proceed. He offered me the chance to come and collect it and give him a refund which I refused. I told him to call the force noted in the letter and will be doing the same tomorrow to explain the situation. How on earth is this going to pan out?
I’m not a lawyer, just trying to look at things from a fair and balanced view of yourself and the buyer.
I wouldn’t be so hasty to rule out any possible solution, (giving a full refund). I suspect in the eyes of the Courts, (if things get to that stage), that would have been quite a fair offer.
Do you have any info on what exactly has happened here? From how you’ve described finding the bike, it sounds like it hasn’t moved from that spot in years. So how come it was suddenly reported stolen just a few days before you bought it?
Any idea which insurance company is involved? If so, have you spoken to them to see what their plans are?
Lastly I wouldn’t worry about any criminal charges if what you’ve said is correct. It sounds like you’ve bought the bike in ‘good faith’ and have certainly carried out due diligence before buying.
I wouldn’t be so hasty to rule out any possible solution, (giving a full refund). I suspect in the eyes of the Courts, (if things get to that stage), that would have been quite a fair offer.
Do you have any info on what exactly has happened here? From how you’ve described finding the bike, it sounds like it hasn’t moved from that spot in years. So how come it was suddenly reported stolen just a few days before you bought it?
Any idea which insurance company is involved? If so, have you spoken to them to see what their plans are?
Lastly I wouldn’t worry about any criminal charges if what you’ve said is correct. It sounds like you’ve bought the bike in ‘good faith’ and have certainly carried out due diligence before buying.
Sounds to me as if the person who sold you the bike didn't get permission from the person/owner whos house/storage/whatever it was they were clearing out, to take the bike.
Owner has then realised and reported it as stolen.
Police will speak to current keeper, he can explain situation, they will then probably speak to you, you came explain and they can then go to house clearance person and he can explain. Bike will probably get returned to original owner unless clearence person can prove he had permission to take the bike. Its current keeper though will be left out of pocket, they may then come after you for reimbursement and you will have to go back to the clearance person to be reimbursed... All very messy.
Owner has then realised and reported it as stolen.
Police will speak to current keeper, he can explain situation, they will then probably speak to you, you came explain and they can then go to house clearance person and he can explain. Bike will probably get returned to original owner unless clearence person can prove he had permission to take the bike. Its current keeper though will be left out of pocket, they may then come after you for reimbursement and you will have to go back to the clearance person to be reimbursed... All very messy.
Sorry should have been more clear, I refused to travel hundreds of miles to pick the bike up, but made it clear to the buyer that if the bike is indeed stolen he will be getting a refund from me, it's the morally correct thing to do. Buyer is being understanding and amicable.
I agree it sounds like the bike was cleared without permission, person who brought the bike in will likely never be found, the guy I bought it from gets stuff from all different people who actually do the clearances, 99 percent of the stuff that comes in is junk, it's just the odd interesting items that turn up once in awhile. I'm going to call the plod tomorrow and explain how I came in to possession of it.
Would the HPI warranty cover this?
I agree it sounds like the bike was cleared without permission, person who brought the bike in will likely never be found, the guy I bought it from gets stuff from all different people who actually do the clearances, 99 percent of the stuff that comes in is junk, it's just the odd interesting items that turn up once in awhile. I'm going to call the plod tomorrow and explain how I came in to possession of it.
Would the HPI warranty cover this?
Hpi are only as good as the information given to them. (their words to me on an undisclosed finance case)
I'll guess that either the Police, or the insurance company, failed to inform Hpi of the info/stolen marker at the time.
If you can prove otherwise then you'll claim from Hpi if you have proof they were informed, and you suffer a loss as a result.
Please let us know the outcome.
I'll guess that either the Police, or the insurance company, failed to inform Hpi of the info/stolen marker at the time.
If you can prove otherwise then you'll claim from Hpi if you have proof they were informed, and you suffer a loss as a result.
Please let us know the outcome.
Edited by Trevor555 on Thursday 7th October 21:26
Dazaa said:
Sorry should have been more clear, I refused to travel hundreds of miles to pick the bike up, but made it clear to the buyer that if the bike is indeed stolen he will be getting a refund from me, it's the morally correct thing to do. Buyer is being understanding and amicable.
I agree it sounds like the bike was cleared without permission, person who brought the bike in will likely never be found, the guy I bought it from gets stuff from all different people who actually do the clearances, 99 percent of the stuff that comes in is junk, it's just the odd interesting items that turn up once in awhile. I'm going to call the plod tomorrow and explain how I came in to possession of it.
Would the HPI warranty cover this?
The HPI guarantee is only valid if you supply the VIN and VRM. You/the buyer only supplied the VIN?I agree it sounds like the bike was cleared without permission, person who brought the bike in will likely never be found, the guy I bought it from gets stuff from all different people who actually do the clearances, 99 percent of the stuff that comes in is junk, it's just the odd interesting items that turn up once in awhile. I'm going to call the plod tomorrow and explain how I came in to possession of it.
Would the HPI warranty cover this?
bennno said:
Why wouldn’t you seek a refund from the guy you bought from?
That's a good point.If all three parties did an Hpi check then who would suffer the loss/claim?
Would all of them be classified as innocent purchasers?
I presume the bike will belong to the insurance company if one paid out?
If it wasn't insured then would the original owner get the bike back? Or would an innocent purchaser get to keep it?
Agree it's a mess.
Please let us know the outcome.
bennno said:
Why wouldn’t you seek a refund from the guy you bought from?
This is likely going to be my first port of call, I know him well and dont expect any issues. Except that i'm out the 800 quid profit I made and don't even have the money to return at the moment. My comment with regards to where he bought it was more about the police finding who actually stole it (close to zero chance in reality)Generally the courts like to preserve the original owners title BUT this is a confusing area and there are some exceptions.
Although the person you bought the bike from might not have had good title to sell it, you MAY now have good title under section 25 of the Sale of goods act (Buyer in possession after sale.)
Potentially there could be a case for estoppel by negligence.
Where does the original owner fit into all of this? Are they actually involved or recently reported it stolen?
Although the person you bought the bike from might not have had good title to sell it, you MAY now have good title under section 25 of the Sale of goods act (Buyer in possession after sale.)
Potentially there could be a case for estoppel by negligence.
Where does the original owner fit into all of this? Are they actually involved or recently reported it stolen?
I would say this is quite simple from your side of the deal.
Get the bike returned to yourself and refund your buyer.
Take the bike back to your seller and explain the situation and request he refund you.
If your seller is a legitimate dealer then he should have the details of the person he bought it from so he would then do the same as the rest of the chain.
I had a similar experience years ago with an engine that had a very similar story to your bike.
Presume you got a receipt when you bought it?
With a receipt the process is easy as your seller can’t deny any involvement. Mind I am not saying he would but when backed into a corner or doing cash only deals with no paperwork things can change quite quickly.
Get the bike returned to yourself and refund your buyer.
Take the bike back to your seller and explain the situation and request he refund you.
If your seller is a legitimate dealer then he should have the details of the person he bought it from so he would then do the same as the rest of the chain.
I had a similar experience years ago with an engine that had a very similar story to your bike.
Presume you got a receipt when you bought it?
With a receipt the process is easy as your seller can’t deny any involvement. Mind I am not saying he would but when backed into a corner or doing cash only deals with no paperwork things can change quite quickly.
CoreyDog said:
Sounds to me as if the person who sold you the bike didn't get permission from the person/owner whos house/storage/whatever it was they were clearing out, to take the bike.
Owner has then realised and reported it as stolen.
If that is what happened I'm surprised the police accepted it had been stolen - assuming the owner told them the truth.Owner has then realised and reported it as stolen.
Dazaa said:
Long story short. I bought a motorbike on the 7th of August, barn find I bought off someone who deals in house clearance and rubbish removals. Bike was a mess, clearly sitting for years, brakes seized, bits of vegetation stuck in the wheels and frame, it was a track bike with no numberplate so I did a free Isitnicked search on the vin which confirmed it was NOT stolen. I bought the bike for £500 and promptly flipped it on Ebay as a non running project with no keys or paperwork but showed a picture of the VIN and stated that I had done a check and it was not stolen ect. Bike sold and on the 18th the buyer did a full HPI before his friend came down to collect it, once all clear he transferred me the funds and everyone was happy. Today he has contacted me and sent a picture of a letter HPI have sent him which states "At the time of your enquiry, we were unaware that the above vehicle was stolen" "After processing your enquiry we subsequently received notification of the following interest and are now providing you with this info" The info states the date of theft as 2nd August (4 days before I did my first free check on it) and confirms the buyer did his check on the 18th August. Now the buyer has contacted me asking how to proceed. He offered me the chance to come and collect it and give him a refund which I refused. I told him to call the force noted in the letter and will be doing the same tomorrow to explain the situation. How on earth is this going to pan out?
He did his own "full HPI check" before buying and bought the bike on that bases. Not on your word.If as you said HPI are now telling him it is stolen then he has an issue with HPI who he chose to rely on.
If HPI were wrong when they told him it was not stolen how does he know HPI are not wrong now.
There is no criminal offence. You also never mislead the buyer in any way.
AngryPartsBloke said:
Generally the courts like to preserve the original owners title BUT this is a confusing area and there are some exceptions.
Although the person you bought the bike from might not have had good title to sell it, you MAY now have good title under section 25 of the Sale of goods act (Buyer in possession after sale.)
Potentially there could be a case for estoppel by negligence.
Where does the original owner fit into all of this? Are they actually involved or recently reported it stolen?
I have no idea, was thinking of calling the police involved and asking what the actual story is because i'm starting to think that the previous owner may have intentionally disposed of the bike (as i said it was a total mess) and gotten the hump after discovering the buyer had applied for a logbook, some people are funny about disposal of their stuff. I guess the give away will be when the bike was reported stolen...will report back Although the person you bought the bike from might not have had good title to sell it, you MAY now have good title under section 25 of the Sale of goods act (Buyer in possession after sale.)
Potentially there could be a case for estoppel by negligence.
Where does the original owner fit into all of this? Are they actually involved or recently reported it stolen?
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