Emira: will "distance selling" apply?
Discussion
with my Emira deposit placed I was thinking whether distance selling applied. When it's delivered, if I don't like it, could I just send it back?
The order is placed online without seeing the car, although it'll be configured to my spec.
Not expecting not to like it, just musing really.
Bert
The order is placed online without seeing the car, although it'll be configured to my spec.
Not expecting not to like it, just musing really.
Bert
Yes it was perhaps a silly notion and I am not expecting to want to send it back - and flipping it for a profit is always a possibility assuming it doesn't get slated by the Press by then!
it does make me wonder what the exact definition of made to order is? If it were fixed spec, colour etc with no options that wouldn't be made to order. If it were an order with loads of options, that would be. Where is the divide? If you had a choice of fixed spec but one of 5 colours? Not made to order?
Bert
it does make me wonder what the exact definition of made to order is? If it were fixed spec, colour etc with no options that wouldn't be made to order. If it were an order with loads of options, that would be. Where is the divide? If you had a choice of fixed spec but one of 5 colours? Not made to order?
Bert
BertBert said:
Yes it was perhaps a silly notion and I am not expecting to want to send it back - and flipping it for a profit is always a possibility assuming it doesn't get slated by the Press by then!
it does make me wonder what the exact definition of made to order is? If it were fixed spec, colour etc with no options that wouldn't be made to order. If it were an order with loads of options, that would be. Where is the divide? If you had a choice of fixed spec but one of 5 colours? Not made to order?
Bert
If your order number was on the build sheet at the factory, it's made to order. Your order number may as well be your name in that case.it does make me wonder what the exact definition of made to order is? If it were fixed spec, colour etc with no options that wouldn't be made to order. If it were an order with loads of options, that would be. Where is the divide? If you had a choice of fixed spec but one of 5 colours? Not made to order?
Bert
CraigyMc said:
PhilboSE said:
I believe “made to order” or custom things are exempt from distance selling laws.
This is correct.it is goods made to the CONSUEMRS specification
Therefore choosing from a pre set menu of limited options is not made to the CONSUEMRS specification - its made to a specification offered by the TRADER
example
you buy a football t shirt - you choose from a list of options such as large, long arms, blue collar, white back, red front - all from a set menu - made to order but not made to the consumers specification
as above but you choose to have JIMMY SMITH wording added to the back an option which is free text you provide - in that case it is made to your spec as it contains something that wasn't offered as a standard pick and choose item by the trader.
Direct from the regulation -
regulation said:
the supply of bespoke goods that are made to the consumer's specification or are personalised - for example, a made-to-measure suit or pair of curtains, or a gift that has the recipient's name engraved on it. This may also apply to goods supplied as part of home improvements contracts, such as double glazed windows that have been made specifically to the measurements for the customer's home rather than using stock parts. However, this exemption does not apply to items made to a consumer's specification simply by combining stock items - for example, a standard sized window unit bought from a trade supplier, a computer put together from stocked parts or a car ordered from a fixed menu of items
craigjm said:
Direct from the regulation -
So in this case, does choosing from a limited set of options make it made to the consumers spec? There's probably 1000 or more combinations of the options available so I suspect it does.regulation said:
the supply of bespoke goods that are made to the consumer's specification or are personalised - for example, a made-to-measure suit or pair of curtains, or a gift that has the recipient's name engraved on it. This may also apply to goods supplied as part of home improvements contracts, such as double glazed windows that have been made specifically to the measurements for the customer's home rather than using stock parts. However, this exemption does not apply to items made to a consumer's specification simply by combining stock items - for example, a standard sized window unit bought from a trade supplier, a computer put together from stocked parts or a car ordered from a fixed menu of items
BertBert said:
craigjm said:
Direct from the regulation -
So in this case, does choosing from a limited set of options make it made to the consumers spec? There's probably 1000 or more combinations of the options available so I suspect it does.regulation said:
the supply of bespoke goods that are made to the consumer's specification or are personalised - for example, a made-to-measure suit or pair of curtains, or a gift that has the recipient's name engraved on it. This may also apply to goods supplied as part of home improvements contracts, such as double glazed windows that have been made specifically to the measurements for the customer's home rather than using stock parts. However, this exemption does not apply to items made to a consumer's specification simply by combining stock items - for example, a standard sized window unit bought from a trade supplier, a computer put together from stocked parts or a car ordered from a fixed menu of items
craigjm said:
From that definition I would say that any Emira is not bespoke. Until they start offering stuff like tread plates with BertBert written on them and those types of options and then it becomes bespoke because the product is now personal to you. Its about the producer being able to resell it really isnt it. Any Emira specced up on the configurator they could sell to someone else. As soon as it has your name on it or anything else personal they cant.
It's certainly interesting! Does it mean I actually could send it back if I didn't like it? Or for no reason at all actually.BertBert said:
craigjm said:
From that definition I would say that any Emira is not bespoke. Until they start offering stuff like tread plates with BertBert written on them and those types of options and then it becomes bespoke because the product is now personal to you. Its about the producer being able to resell it really isnt it. Any Emira specced up on the configurator they could sell to someone else. As soon as it has your name on it or anything else personal they cant.
It's certainly interesting! Does it mean I actually could send it back if I didn't like it? Or for no reason at all actually.If you really wanted to reject it, I suspect the factory would resist it. Then the ball would be in your court as to whether you wanted to take it further, which means going legal. I suspect the factory would say "we would never have built this car in this specification except because BertBert asked us to, therefore it's custom". The factory would also be able to assert that they only make cars to order and customer's own specifications, if no-one places an order then cars don't get built (unlike say a mass market car manufacturer who would just turn out some basic spec white versions for cheap leasing deals and keep the production line running).
I suspect that Lotus would be able to say that making they offer the capability to make cars to a customers specification, the same way a joiner might offer to make furniture but again only to customer specification. So every piece is a custom order.
You could argue it both ways, which is why if both manufacturer and customer dug their heels in it would ultimately come down to a legal process to resolve. Personally I suspect the judgement would go the way of the manufacturer.
In any event it's a bit moot as you'd probably be able to flip it for a profit anyway!
I suspect that Lotus would be able to say that making they offer the capability to make cars to a customers specification, the same way a joiner might offer to make furniture but again only to customer specification. So every piece is a custom order.
You could argue it both ways, which is why if both manufacturer and customer dug their heels in it would ultimately come down to a legal process to resolve. Personally I suspect the judgement would go the way of the manufacturer.
In any event it's a bit moot as you'd probably be able to flip it for a profit anyway!
craigjm said:
I think for that to apply they would have to deliver it to your house with you having no physical contact with the dealer. If you go into the dealer for a test drive, to sign the papers, to pay or anything else then its no longer a distant sale.
And that's on offer. Buy it direct from Lotus and they deliver to your house, no dealer need be involved!Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff