Power to require a DNA test
Discussion
Ok, long story but.....
My step father (SD from now) is in 24 hour care for dementia and has no capacity to give consent etc. He's 88
His god daughter who is in her 50's, who I've known for over 30 years has recently written to my mum stating that she is in fact the daughter of my step father and is the issue of an affair between him and her mother.
(SD is her god father as she is the daughter of his best friend)
She is now saying that she has obtained a DNA sample from my SD's only son and that his and hers are, in her words, identical.
Yes, I'm aware of the irony of that statement but anyway.....
She has applied to the family court and the judge has apparently ordered a DNA sample to be obtained from SD - I can see that there is probably a power to require this but it only related as far as I can see to children ie under 18's so am curious as to what power this requirement can be made.
Basically, she's after the money she thinks he has, there's his half of the house, which she's welcome to but will have to fight the council for as they will want their cut first, which will be all of it in about 6 months time.
All of this conveniently came out after both her parents have died so they are unable to comment and SD has deteriorated to the point that he doesn't even recognise his wife so cannot say one way or the other.
I'm aware of the procedures for obtaining the sample but to me it does not sit well taking a sample from an elderly man who does not have the capacity to consent or otherwise.
If anyone can guide me as the the specific legislation which would authorise such a sample being obtained, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.
My step father (SD from now) is in 24 hour care for dementia and has no capacity to give consent etc. He's 88
His god daughter who is in her 50's, who I've known for over 30 years has recently written to my mum stating that she is in fact the daughter of my step father and is the issue of an affair between him and her mother.
(SD is her god father as she is the daughter of his best friend)
She is now saying that she has obtained a DNA sample from my SD's only son and that his and hers are, in her words, identical.
Yes, I'm aware of the irony of that statement but anyway.....
She has applied to the family court and the judge has apparently ordered a DNA sample to be obtained from SD - I can see that there is probably a power to require this but it only related as far as I can see to children ie under 18's so am curious as to what power this requirement can be made.
Basically, she's after the money she thinks he has, there's his half of the house, which she's welcome to but will have to fight the council for as they will want their cut first, which will be all of it in about 6 months time.
All of this conveniently came out after both her parents have died so they are unable to comment and SD has deteriorated to the point that he doesn't even recognise his wife so cannot say one way or the other.
I'm aware of the procedures for obtaining the sample but to me it does not sit well taking a sample from an elderly man who does not have the capacity to consent or otherwise.
If anyone can guide me as the the specific legislation which would authorise such a sample being obtained, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.
usn90 said:
I can’t really comment on your main question, however wouldn’t your mum like to know the truth.
Would be a massive shame to taint their relationship if it’s all cobblers
She isn't worried about that, they only met in their 50's so this would have taken place long before they met if it were true. She's more pissed off about this woman dragging her parents names through the mud as they were both good friends of my Mum who helped her out at a rough time in her life.Would be a massive shame to taint their relationship if it’s all cobblers
https://www.directmediationservices.co.uk/declarat...
That slightly surprises me, but might leave you in a better position to have a think about things. Does he have someone with an POA, or would he rely on your mum to represent his interests? If the house represents all his assets, would the Court of Protection take up his baton? Might be amusing as a bystander...
That slightly surprises me, but might leave you in a better position to have a think about things. Does he have someone with an POA, or would he rely on your mum to represent his interests? If the house represents all his assets, would the Court of Protection take up his baton? Might be amusing as a bystander...
randlemarcus said:
https://www.directmediationservices.co.uk/declarat...
That slightly surprises me, but might leave you in a better position to have a think about things. Does he have someone with an POA, or would he rely on your mum to represent his interests? If the house represents all his assets, would the Court of Protection take up his baton? Might be amusing as a bystander...
An interesting read there, thanks. That slightly surprises me, but might leave you in a better position to have a think about things. Does he have someone with an POA, or would he rely on your mum to represent his interests? If the house represents all his assets, would the Court of Protection take up his baton? Might be amusing as a bystander...
There is no POA, sadly it was too late as he went into a quite quick decline and was unable to agree to put a POA in place.
He cannot consent, nor can he refuse to provide the sample, he hasn't got the capacity to do so, hence my question.
I'm aware of the potential adverse inference which can be made out in the case of a refusal, however, in this case I don't think it can apply as he just isn't capable of making such a decision.
Interestingly, the woman in question has apparently asked the majority of her friends to assist her as a mediator, all of whom have declined to assist her in any way under these circumstances, read into that what you will.
Mum has said that she will not object to a sample, but doesn't think that she actually has the right to say that it is ok to take it.
Hence my query to identify the exact legislation under these particular circumstances.
Disco You said:
Why does it matter anyway? He will either have a will which doesn’t name this woman, or his next of kin will be his wife, so who cares if they are blood relatives or not?
It matters because an ill, elderly man may be effectively forced to undergo a procedure that may not be lawful. He cannot consent, he has no capacity to do so hence the request for someone to point me to the relevant (E&W) legislation covering the requirement to provide in these circumstances. Rushjob said:
Disco You said:
Why does it matter anyway? He will either have a will which doesn’t name this woman, or his next of kin will be his wife, so who cares if they are blood relatives or not?
It matters because an ill, elderly man may be effectively forced to undergo a procedure that may not be lawful. He cannot consent, he has no capacity to do so hence the request for someone to point me to the relevant (E&W) legislation covering the requirement to provide in these circumstances. Seems a court can order the test provided it's carried out by a Ministry of Justice approved laboratory https://www.dnalegal.com/blog/consent-needed-pater...
I don't know the legislation that allows this but perhaps the website can help. Tel number is 0203 424 3470 on the site.
I don't know the legislation that allows this but perhaps the website can help. Tel number is 0203 424 3470 on the site.
Hello I am sorry to hear about your dilemma. Given there is no POA I’d suggest speaking to his local Adult Safeguarding Team which either Adult Social Care in the local authority or the local NHS Clinical Commissioning Group can refer you to. If they cannot help directly they will probably have ideas of where to take it next. Good luck.
Given this "conveniently came out after both her parents have died" , i'd be requesting a copy of her parents will
If she inherited anything from them - and she wasn't an actual daughter , then im sure she would be willing to have the estate re-distributed - as the executor may not have been aware of the fact and may have mistakenly given her a share
If she inherited anything from them - and she wasn't an actual daughter , then im sure she would be willing to have the estate re-distributed - as the executor may not have been aware of the fact and may have mistakenly given her a share
This is your starting ground https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/30/conte...
Hopefully it may steer you closer to an answer specific to your case, which is the power to take a sample as issued by a family court judge. s3 and s6 possibly may apply.
Hopefully it may steer you closer to an answer specific to your case, which is the power to take a sample as issued by a family court judge. s3 and s6 possibly may apply.
Edited by Sgt Bilko on Thursday 25th November 23:36
Rushjob said:
If anyone can guide me as the the specific legislation which would authorise such a sample being obtained, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.
The best starting point would be to get hold of the Judge’s judgment that was delivered when the order to take a DNA sample was made. It should be publicly available. Thanks.
Rushjob said:
It matters because an ill, elderly man may be effectively forced to undergo a procedure that may not be lawful. He cannot consent, he has no capacity to do so hence the request for someone to point me to the relevant (E&W) legislation covering the requirement to provide in these circumstances.
You make it sound like someone has to hold him down and force it to be done. DNA can be obtained in many ways and he wont even know about it, used drinking receptacle for example.As there is no POA in place it may have to be referred to the Court Of Protection but this all sounds like a massive big deal when it can be simply obtained and the truth revealed one way or the other.
I would certainly want to see the judgement. Googling government paternity DNA testing, according to gov.uk they cannot force a man to take a DNA test in parentage cases.
Surely being an OAP in a care home, even if a vegetable, you would have the same right to refuse? if he is not competant, who is legally making decisions for him? That person would be the one to make that decision surely?
Unless of course what you mean is they have already taken it through the court of protection to make that decision.
Way more info is clearly needed here.
Surely being an OAP in a care home, even if a vegetable, you would have the same right to refuse? if he is not competant, who is legally making decisions for him? That person would be the one to make that decision surely?
Unless of course what you mean is they have already taken it through the court of protection to make that decision.
Way more info is clearly needed here.
Sgt Bilko said:
This is your starting ground https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/30/conte...
Hopefully it may steer you closer to an answer specific to your case, which is the power to take a sample as issued by a family court judge. s3 and s6 possibly may apply.
That's exactly what I was after thanks.Hopefully it may steer you closer to an answer specific to your case, which is the power to take a sample as issued by a family court judge. s3 and s6 possibly may apply.
Edited by Sgt Bilko on Thursday 25th November 23:36
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