Boiler repair: Unexpected invoice under warranty - thoughts?
Discussion
Not car related, and a relatively small amount of money, but there’s a principle here and I'm
wondering what the PH opinion/legal hive mind thinks.
We have a combi boiler, installed ~3 years ago with an extended warranty to 2025 taken. An annual service agreement with the seller/installer was agreed, as per the terms of the warranty.
This year the gentleman who installed the boiler came to service it and noticed a fault. He didn’t have the necessary part in his van to fix it on the spot, so on leaving instructed me to keep an eye on the rising pressure problem. I was to let him know if it persisted and he filled in the service record as required under the warranty terms. An invoice for the service work duly arrived and was paid the same day (all previous invoices were also paid promptly).
The fault persisted so I contacted him. He said he would have to order the part before arranging a time to come and fix it, which he eventually did. As the process of arranging a time for him to come was becoming painful (offers to come same day, or with a few hours notice), I gave him the keysafe combination and told him to let himself in. The boiler was fixed.
I promptly received an invoice for £230.
Via text message, I thanked him for his work but questioned the invoice, suggesting it should be covered by the warranty. “Sorry no” was the curt reply. I asked why and didn’t receive a response.
A few weeks later I received a reminder invoice, followed by a call a day or so later. I raised the warranty question again. His response was that warranty work is carried out by the manufacturer (Vaillant), not him and the invoice is due. He would not move on this and stated it is our responsibility to tell him we have a warranty, not for him to ask us. The warranty letter was in the folder with the service record. The fact that he installed the boiler and completes the service record every year is not evidence to him that we have a warranty - apparently he has customers without warranties that do this.
I was sure we’d had warranty work carried out by him in the past, and following some digging I was reminded what happened. His son came to do the service last year, found a fault and called Vaillant. He gave them the details of the fault, handed the phone to me and we arranged another visit. They came to fix it and all was well.
As the invoice was vague (parts & labour in one figure + VAT), I emailed asking for a full breakdown of parts details and his hourly rate. The response was to just separate parts and labour. Politely asking for full details, I was given ‘Service valve @ £x, service valve @ £y, filling loop @ £z’. He still hasn't broken the labour down by supplying an hourly rate.
Looking online at parts suppliers I found the obvious - there are seemingly infinitely many types of ‘service valve’.
Spelling it out as clearly as I could I asked for part numbers, and was treated to what amounted to a letter before action, essentially: “If not paid in full within 7 days, my solicitor and debt collectors will be instructed, and further costs will be incurred.”
I have called Vaillant, asking them what the status on the warranty would be now that a non-Vaillant engineer has carried out a repair, also what they thought of an installing and maintaining company carrying out work without checking the warranty status. They said they would expect an engineer that knows the boiler and the customer to ask and then call them. Fortunately they also confirmed via email that as long as the parts are genuine Vaillant, the warranty will be unaffected.
Again, I know it’s a relatively small amount, but when an extended warranty is taken, I don’t expect to be landed with an unexpected bill.
If you were in this situation, would you expect him to flag warranty work as happened last year and advise?
I know that I went though the process once and maybe should have recalled and flagged the warranty to him, but wouldn’t you expect some kind of acceptance of at least partial responsibility and maybe an offer to reduce/forgo the labour if we covered the parts?
As we’re asking for details and he’s not supplying them, does he have a right to add recovery costs? We’re engaging with him, not ignoring him.
If it came down to it, could we ask him to remove the parts and have a Vaillant engineer present to refit their own?
Sorry for the long post - thoughts/questions/PH style admonishments welcome
Disclaimer: He doesn't have a lawn and I've given up sausages
We have a combi boiler, installed ~3 years ago with an extended warranty to 2025 taken. An annual service agreement with the seller/installer was agreed, as per the terms of the warranty.
This year the gentleman who installed the boiler came to service it and noticed a fault. He didn’t have the necessary part in his van to fix it on the spot, so on leaving instructed me to keep an eye on the rising pressure problem. I was to let him know if it persisted and he filled in the service record as required under the warranty terms. An invoice for the service work duly arrived and was paid the same day (all previous invoices were also paid promptly).
The fault persisted so I contacted him. He said he would have to order the part before arranging a time to come and fix it, which he eventually did. As the process of arranging a time for him to come was becoming painful (offers to come same day, or with a few hours notice), I gave him the keysafe combination and told him to let himself in. The boiler was fixed.
I promptly received an invoice for £230.
Via text message, I thanked him for his work but questioned the invoice, suggesting it should be covered by the warranty. “Sorry no” was the curt reply. I asked why and didn’t receive a response.
A few weeks later I received a reminder invoice, followed by a call a day or so later. I raised the warranty question again. His response was that warranty work is carried out by the manufacturer (Vaillant), not him and the invoice is due. He would not move on this and stated it is our responsibility to tell him we have a warranty, not for him to ask us. The warranty letter was in the folder with the service record. The fact that he installed the boiler and completes the service record every year is not evidence to him that we have a warranty - apparently he has customers without warranties that do this.
I was sure we’d had warranty work carried out by him in the past, and following some digging I was reminded what happened. His son came to do the service last year, found a fault and called Vaillant. He gave them the details of the fault, handed the phone to me and we arranged another visit. They came to fix it and all was well.
As the invoice was vague (parts & labour in one figure + VAT), I emailed asking for a full breakdown of parts details and his hourly rate. The response was to just separate parts and labour. Politely asking for full details, I was given ‘Service valve @ £x, service valve @ £y, filling loop @ £z’. He still hasn't broken the labour down by supplying an hourly rate.
Looking online at parts suppliers I found the obvious - there are seemingly infinitely many types of ‘service valve’.
Spelling it out as clearly as I could I asked for part numbers, and was treated to what amounted to a letter before action, essentially: “If not paid in full within 7 days, my solicitor and debt collectors will be instructed, and further costs will be incurred.”
I have called Vaillant, asking them what the status on the warranty would be now that a non-Vaillant engineer has carried out a repair, also what they thought of an installing and maintaining company carrying out work without checking the warranty status. They said they would expect an engineer that knows the boiler and the customer to ask and then call them. Fortunately they also confirmed via email that as long as the parts are genuine Vaillant, the warranty will be unaffected.
Again, I know it’s a relatively small amount, but when an extended warranty is taken, I don’t expect to be landed with an unexpected bill.
If you were in this situation, would you expect him to flag warranty work as happened last year and advise?
I know that I went though the process once and maybe should have recalled and flagged the warranty to him, but wouldn’t you expect some kind of acceptance of at least partial responsibility and maybe an offer to reduce/forgo the labour if we covered the parts?
As we’re asking for details and he’s not supplying them, does he have a right to add recovery costs? We’re engaging with him, not ignoring him.
If it came down to it, could we ask him to remove the parts and have a Vaillant engineer present to refit their own?
Sorry for the long post - thoughts/questions/PH style admonishments welcome
Disclaimer: He doesn't have a lawn and I've given up sausages
Sorry, nothing too helpful to add other than I agree with your stance and I'd also expect them to show some proactivity when it came to the potential that a new-ish boiler might be covered by warranty. Old fashioned customer service. Especially as they has installed it.
Sadly your experience sounds like mine when I last had a boiler replaced - every issue after quote Was apparently my fault (even though I changed absolutely nothing) and at my cost. Presumably just a coincidence - but the company doesn't have a short name beginning with R does it?
Good luck with getting an ambicable resolution.
Sadly your experience sounds like mine when I last had a boiler replaced - every issue after quote Was apparently my fault (even though I changed absolutely nothing) and at my cost. Presumably just a coincidence - but the company doesn't have a short name beginning with R does it?
Good luck with getting an ambicable resolution.
Edited by C-J on Thursday 9th December 03:42
Edited by C-J on Thursday 9th December 03:52
Did you take the extended warranty via him at time of install, or was it purchased later on through Vaillant?
Regardless, I’d have no intention of paying that invoice - if it’s only 3 years old and they’ve actioned warranty work previously, I can’t see their actions would be viewed favourably if it ever came in front of a judge..
Regardless, I’d have no intention of paying that invoice - if it’s only 3 years old and they’ve actioned warranty work previously, I can’t see their actions would be viewed favourably if it ever came in front of a judge..
loskie said:
Unless you specifically mentioned warranty to him when you discussed the fault initially or prior to fixing then I think you are being unreasonable
I agree with the above. If he knew it was under warranty he could of claimed his fee back through valiant, you should of at least mentioned it to him. What would he gain from trying to scam you now on a £240 invoice? It seems as if perhaps he was a bit “sharp” in so far as maybe but not definitely knowing you had a warranty, the issue is, if you have a fault, you contact Vailiant directly and allow them to decide, taking his labour and mark up away, they would be much cheaper.
I’d consign that to experience
I’d consign that to experience
Unfortunate, but that's the way it is. You have a warranty through vaillant (and incidentally the WB warranty works exactly the same way) not through your servicer/installer. It is up to you, as the person with the warranty contract to claim on it and get the work authorised. If you bypass the system and go straight to the third party, it isn't vaillants fault.
Having said that, it doesn't sound like your servicer has great customer service attitude. I would look for someone else - your warranty won't be affected. So the servicer loses future business for being an a***
Having said that, it doesn't sound like your servicer has great customer service attitude. I would look for someone else - your warranty won't be affected. So the servicer loses future business for being an a***
mr rusty said:
Unfortunate, but that's the way it is. You have a warranty through vaillant (and incidentally the WB warranty works exactly the same way) not through your servicer/installer.
I asked our WB installer what to do in the event of a fault and he was most insistent that I should call him first.I think in the OPs case it's more than a little odd that the installer didn't twig that it was a boiler he'd installed and therefore should be covered by warranty.
However when the installer said it needed repair I'm pretty sure my first words would have been something like "thank Goodnes for the warranty", especially as I'd been through the process a year before.
I have to say faults in years two and three seems a bit unlucky for a Vaillant boiler.
Vaillant have had a 7 year warranty for some years now, so this seems perplexing. We bought a Valliant to replace an old back-boiler, but we moved house about 8months later to stay permanently at our holiday home.
Could it be that the issue is not caused by a failure of the boiler itself, but by somewhere else in the system that has affected the boiler?
According to all reports, Vallaint and Worcester-Bosch are the most reliable.
Could it be that the issue is not caused by a failure of the boiler itself, but by somewhere else in the system that has affected the boiler?
According to all reports, Vallaint and Worcester-Bosch are the most reliable.
My boiler went 2 weeks ago (12 month old worcester bosch). WB themselves came round to fix it although my installer did pop round to see if there was an easy fix he could do.
Apparently he couldn't and WB came round 4 days later.
Turns out a wasp was blocking the syphon. Even I could have fixed that.
Apparently he couldn't and WB came round 4 days later.
Turns out a wasp was blocking the syphon. Even I could have fixed that.
I'm an installer and I ask my customers to contact me first in the case of a problem.
Occasionally it is not a boiler fault but elsewhere in the system or controls.
If it is indeed a boiler fault; installers have a fast track repair number that can get the manufacturers engineers out to repair quicker than a customer calling direct.
Occasionally it is not a boiler fault but elsewhere in the system or controls.
If it is indeed a boiler fault; installers have a fast track repair number that can get the manufacturers engineers out to repair quicker than a customer calling direct.
I’d ask him to reconsider his invoice bearing in mind that he knew (or should have known) that you have a warranty.
Don’t be frightened by the letter before action. He may decide to make a Court claim but for such a small amount he won’t be getting any costs or solicitors fees. In his position I wouldn’t make a claim.
Don’t be frightened by the letter before action. He may decide to make a Court claim but for such a small amount he won’t be getting any costs or solicitors fees. In his position I wouldn’t make a claim.
The guy is entitled to be paid, the fact you did not go through the correct route is yours not his. I think he was perhaps sharp but essentially you made a bad bargain.
As for Vailiant and their warranties, we thought we had the 10 year as we had a screen shot from an approved installer, he filled in the form except didn’t put the serial number on. He has retired and they fully accept the install date and it was uploaded minus the serial number, they will honour the warranty if I can track him down in wherever he retired to and get him to call them. I have more chance of finding gold at the end of the rainbow
As for Vailiant and their warranties, we thought we had the 10 year as we had a screen shot from an approved installer, he filled in the form except didn’t put the serial number on. He has retired and they fully accept the install date and it was uploaded minus the serial number, they will honour the warranty if I can track him down in wherever he retired to and get him to call them. I have more chance of finding gold at the end of the rainbow
DaveA8 said:
The guy is entitled to be paid, the fact you did not go through the correct route is yours not his. I think he was perhaps sharp but essentially you made a bad bargain.
As for Vailiant and their warranties, we thought we had the 10 year as we had a screen shot from an approved installer, he filled in the form except didn’t put the serial number on. He has retired and they fully accept the install date and it was uploaded minus the serial number, they will honour the warranty if I can track him down in wherever he retired to and get him to call them. I have more chance of finding gold at the end of the rainbow
Surely you have the serial number stamped on the boiler and therefore the manufacturer is just being daftAs for Vailiant and their warranties, we thought we had the 10 year as we had a screen shot from an approved installer, he filled in the form except didn’t put the serial number on. He has retired and they fully accept the install date and it was uploaded minus the serial number, they will honour the warranty if I can track him down in wherever he retired to and get him to call them. I have more chance of finding gold at the end of the rainbow
Thanks for all your replies and input.
He did the installation and the warranty was 'through' him in that sense, but yes, it is ultimately with Vaillant.
They've been very helpful and did say that they would expect an engineer that provided, installed and maintained a boiler to ask if a warranty was in place and call them if so.
The fault was found at an annual service, after which he filled in the service record - it wasn't as if I called him in an emergency.
I do understand that he can't be expected to keep track of warranties or remember all the details of boilers he's worked on, but I do think that asking would be reasonable. At the same time I also appreciate that I could have mentioned it, but I did have a lot on my plate at the time with my elderly father and the process last year didn't jump to mind. Definitely a lesson learned.
I responded to his threatening email almost immediately, calmly stating that I felt it was unnecessary and that we're just trying to get full details of the parts he's installed.
That was two days ago. I haven't had a reply and plan to follow up this evening, pushing for the parts details, especially whether they are genuine Vaillant, and stating that as we are not flatly refusing to pay at this stage and are engaging with him, he has no right to add any further costs. Any thoughts on that?
Also your comments about the priority line and the fact that manufacturers effectively expect you to make the call to them are really helpful.
Just realised that it's a 4 year old boiler, not 3, installed 2017.
He did the installation and the warranty was 'through' him in that sense, but yes, it is ultimately with Vaillant.
They've been very helpful and did say that they would expect an engineer that provided, installed and maintained a boiler to ask if a warranty was in place and call them if so.
The fault was found at an annual service, after which he filled in the service record - it wasn't as if I called him in an emergency.
I do understand that he can't be expected to keep track of warranties or remember all the details of boilers he's worked on, but I do think that asking would be reasonable. At the same time I also appreciate that I could have mentioned it, but I did have a lot on my plate at the time with my elderly father and the process last year didn't jump to mind. Definitely a lesson learned.
I responded to his threatening email almost immediately, calmly stating that I felt it was unnecessary and that we're just trying to get full details of the parts he's installed.
That was two days ago. I haven't had a reply and plan to follow up this evening, pushing for the parts details, especially whether they are genuine Vaillant, and stating that as we are not flatly refusing to pay at this stage and are engaging with him, he has no right to add any further costs. Any thoughts on that?
GasEngineer said:
It does sound as if he is trying to pull your pants down.
Its possible though, that if the issue was indeed the filling loop it may be external to the boiler and not covered by the warranty.
What model is your boiler?
Thanks for this - it's an 'ecoTEC plus combination 0020153258'Its possible though, that if the issue was indeed the filling loop it may be external to the boiler and not covered by the warranty.
What model is your boiler?
Also your comments about the priority line and the fact that manufacturers effectively expect you to make the call to them are really helpful.
Just realised that it's a 4 year old boiler, not 3, installed 2017.
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