Sick pay discrimination against people unvaccinated for C19
Discussion
Hello all,
I know of a company (not who I work for, but someone close to me) who has announced that if you're off sick with C19 and are unvaccinated, that they will not pay sick pay. They will if vaccinated and for all other illnesses (presumably inc. flu if unvaccinated against that).
Could anyone shed any light on whether this is legal or not? Can they just do what they want? Seems pretty stupid to me.
I know of a company (not who I work for, but someone close to me) who has announced that if you're off sick with C19 and are unvaccinated, that they will not pay sick pay. They will if vaccinated and for all other illnesses (presumably inc. flu if unvaccinated against that).
Could anyone shed any light on whether this is legal or not? Can they just do what they want? Seems pretty stupid to me.
mattyprice4004 said:
Sounds fair enough - they’re not taking steps to prevent sickness, so why should the company pick up the tab for their stupidity?
It seems that Covid is an open invitation for employers to ignore basic employee's rights and do what they like; is this in the UK OP?
They would have to pay statutory sick pay no matter what.
If you aren’t vaccinated because of a disability or other protected characteristic then I don’t see how they could offer less sick pay than for other staff.
If your full sick pay is a contractual entitlement I don’t see how they could ignore that.
I’m very pro vaccination but this seems dodgy
If you aren’t vaccinated because of a disability or other protected characteristic then I don’t see how they could offer less sick pay than for other staff.
If your full sick pay is a contractual entitlement I don’t see how they could ignore that.
I’m very pro vaccination but this seems dodgy
mattyprice4004 said:
Sounds fair enough - they’re not taking steps to prevent sickness, so why should the company pick up the tab for their stupidity?
I agree. Any of their employees who smoke should also not be paid sick pay when they get lung cancer, COPD, emphysema etc. That’s what you meant, right?
ks to me. Even if they did take action to coerce people into being vaccinated, how would they know if you were vaccinated or not? The NHS records are confidential. The NHS are are making it compulsory for frontline staff to be double jabbed from April or face redeployment/making themselves redundant so the choice is with the person generally going forward if for whatever reason you don't like the rules you could always look elsewhere.
Cv19 isn't going away anytime soon so either have the jabs or accept the new restrictions the freedom from it brings really. It's literally 10 days isolation at most if you catch it and don't need hospital assistance so it's not going to break the bank surely if people stick to their guns?
Cv19 isn't going away anytime soon so either have the jabs or accept the new restrictions the freedom from it brings really. It's literally 10 days isolation at most if you catch it and don't need hospital assistance so it's not going to break the bank surely if people stick to their guns?
It does sound like rubbish, but...
I suppose the company could ask to see your vaccine history. And there is nothing stopping them from reducing sick pay down to SSP. However, there is a procedure for changing contract conditions. And also you have to be careful of discrimination.
A lot easier to say than to legally implement I would say.
I suppose the company could ask to see your vaccine history. And there is nothing stopping them from reducing sick pay down to SSP. However, there is a procedure for changing contract conditions. And also you have to be careful of discrimination.
A lot easier to say than to legally implement I would say.
I would have thought you couldn't avoid paying sick pay.... if you attempted to do an 'Eddie The Eagle' on your ski holiday and injured yourself due to your own stupidity - you'd get sick pay. Reasons for sickness are not usually within the wording.
But I think it's interesting that employers are under a legal duty of care toward their employees. I wonder how it plays out if an employee refuses to be jabbed and his/her colleagues raise this as an issue about their own health and safety?
But I think it's interesting that employers are under a legal duty of care toward their employees. I wonder how it plays out if an employee refuses to be jabbed and his/her colleagues raise this as an issue about their own health and safety?
Tyre Smoke said:
That's easy. Being jabbed doesn't stop you spreading the virus any more or less than the non jabbed. So it's a moot point.
The latest studies in Israel find lower viral loads amongst those with Covid who have been vaccinated - leading to lower transmission. It has also been claimed many times by government scientists that being vaccinated reduces transmission. The Lancet have also written informed pieces on viral density amongst the vaccinated.I have as much knowledge as you - i.e. people on the interwebs reading stuff. But the evidence would appear to point to a reduction in transmission.
Tyre Smoke said:
That's easy. Being jabbed doesn't stop you spreading the virus any more or less than the non jabbed. So it's a moot point.
Is that actually correct or do we only know that being vaccinated doesn’t absolutely stop you from contracting and spreading the virus?I thought the jury was still out on that one as it’s pretty hard to collate accurate data on.
ETA, NDA’s answer was what I had in mind thanks!
Tebbers said:
mattyprice4004 said:
Sounds fair enough - they’re not taking steps to prevent sickness, so why should the company pick up the tab for their stupidity?
I agree. Any of their employees who smoke should also not be paid sick pay when they get lung cancer, COPD, emphysema etc. That’s what you meant, right?I admired the idea, but (IMHO) pointed out that you can’t *force* people to have an injection.
We agreed that perhaps curbing things they can do - a vaccine passport, as being introduced in many parts of the western world - was the coercive way. Already needed for certain events - a pal I spoke with last night was checked twice going to a football game at the weekend.
The mandatory NHS vaccine edict starts to pave the way. I don’t personally understand why a number of people in the care sector refuse to have them……but then I also recognise many odd people prefer the ramblings of a Piers Corbyn to actual science….
For balance….I also feel we are at the point where the vulnerable need to be taking the actions to protect themselves, rather than have more lockdowns…..not seeing clear indications that the NHS will be overwhelmed….
& finally….I’m just a guy on the Internet, not a virologist, so what do I know
mikeiow said:
Tebbers said:
mattyprice4004 said:
Sounds fair enough - they’re not taking steps to prevent sickness, so why should the company pick up the tab for their stupidity?
I agree. Any of their employees who smoke should also not be paid sick pay when they get lung cancer, COPD, emphysema etc. That’s what you meant, right?I admired the idea, but (IMHO) pointed out that you can’t *force* people to have an injection.
We agreed that perhaps curbing things they can do - a vaccine passport, as being introduced in many parts of the western world - was the coercive way. Already needed for certain events - a pal I spoke with last night was checked twice going to a football game at the weekend.
The mandatory NHS vaccine edict starts to pave the way. I don’t personally understand why a number of people in the care sector refuse to have them……but then I also recognise many odd people prefer the ramblings of a Piers Corbyn to actual science….
For balance….I also feel we are at the point where the vulnerable need to be taking the actions to protect themselves, rather than have more lockdowns…..not seeing clear indications that the NHS will be overwhelmed….
& finally….I’m just a guy on the Internet, not a virologist, so what do I know
Now take a moment to ponder why some folk might have reservations about being forced (or 'coerced', it is exactly the same thing in principle) to accept it.
Southerner said:
I presume you were all for the revolutionary AZ vaccine when it was introduced? Definitely safe, they said, remember that? But then it started killing people. Including some folk who were facing an utterly miniscule risk of serious illness from Covid. Now those same scientists are insisting that dose after dose after dose of whatever cocktail of other vaxxes they decide to give you, is also definitely safe.
Now take a moment to ponder why some folk might have reservations about being forced (or 'coerced', it is exactly the same thing in principle) to accept it.
My irrational prejudice against anyone who uses "folk" instead of people means I have to disregard your request.Now take a moment to ponder why some folk might have reservations about being forced (or 'coerced', it is exactly the same thing in principle) to accept it.
mikeiow said:
I also feel we are at the point where the vulnerable need to be taking the actions to protect themselves, rather than have more lockdowns…..not seeing clear indications that the NHS will be overwhelmed….
This has been my view from the start really. I have had a few heart operations and would therefore be vulnerable. I make my own decisions, assess the risks and have avoided a few fun events as a result. My loss - but my decision.My 20 year old son, on the other hand, has had his jabs and booster and goes out and has fun. As he should. I don't want to stop him or anyone else from enjoying their life during Covid if they have minimal risk of being hospitalised.
There is a balance to be struck.
Edited by NDA on Wednesday 22 December 07:43
Edited by NDA on Wednesday 22 December 07:44
Cuoco said:
Hello all,
I know of a company (not who I work for, but someone close to me) who has announced that if you're off sick with C19 and are unvaccinated, that they will not pay sick pay. They will if vaccinated and for all other illnesses (presumably inc. flu if unvaccinated against that).
Could anyone shed any light on whether this is legal or not? Can they just do what they want? Seems pretty stupid to me.
I doubt this is an official announcement.I know of a company (not who I work for, but someone close to me) who has announced that if you're off sick with C19 and are unvaccinated, that they will not pay sick pay. They will if vaccinated and for all other illnesses (presumably inc. flu if unvaccinated against that).
Could anyone shed any light on whether this is legal or not? Can they just do what they want? Seems pretty stupid to me.
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