Forcibly removing an Executor
Discussion
My late-Father passed away on April 8th 2020, (9 months ago).
Prior to my Fathers passing, he asked his remaining sister, (my Aunty), to be Executor for his Estate, to which she agreed.
To date, she has done absolutely nothing, refuses to do anything, but also refuses to relinquish her position or sign any paperwork relating to my Fathers affairs.
A quick Google suggests that it isn’t so easy to forcefully remove an Executor from an Estate if they do not wish to revoke their duties, (even if they aren’t carrying out those duties).
I wondered if anyone on here has been in a similar position and has had any success in removing an Executor? How long did the process take? Was it something that you were able to sort out yourselves, or did you have to get Solicitors involved?
Thanks in advance
Prior to my Fathers passing, he asked his remaining sister, (my Aunty), to be Executor for his Estate, to which she agreed.
To date, she has done absolutely nothing, refuses to do anything, but also refuses to relinquish her position or sign any paperwork relating to my Fathers affairs.
A quick Google suggests that it isn’t so easy to forcefully remove an Executor from an Estate if they do not wish to revoke their duties, (even if they aren’t carrying out those duties).
I wondered if anyone on here has been in a similar position and has had any success in removing an Executor? How long did the process take? Was it something that you were able to sort out yourselves, or did you have to get Solicitors involved?
Thanks in advance
Thanks all for your replies.
My Aunty isn’t incapable in regards to her mental state. More ‘not capable’ in regards to her, (how can I put this tactfully…..) lack of confidence, determination, and possibly, overall intelligence due to the complex nature of my Fathers affairs.
I’ll look in to the above mentioned time-limits, (12 / 24 months), but ideally I’d like to get the ball rolling with this asap.
My Aunty isn’t incapable in regards to her mental state. More ‘not capable’ in regards to her, (how can I put this tactfully…..) lack of confidence, determination, and possibly, overall intelligence due to the complex nature of my Fathers affairs.
I’ll look in to the above mentioned time-limits, (12 / 24 months), but ideally I’d like to get the ball rolling with this asap.
gazza285 said:
My wife and her eldest sister took their younger sister to court to remove her from the executor role. Fairly straightforward, and the younger sister was landed with all the costs.
If I may ask a personal question, why did you Wife and her eldest sister look to get the youngest sister removed?What evidence did they have to supply the Courts for their application to be granted?
Cheers.
105.4 said:
Thanks all for your replies.
My Aunty isn’t incapable in regards to her mental state. More ‘not capable’ in regards to her, (how can I put this tactfully…..) lack of confidence, determination, and possibly, overall intelligence due to the complex nature of my Fathers affairs.
I’ll look in to the above mentioned time-limits, (12 / 24 months), but ideally I’d like to get the ball rolling with this asap.
Probably easier to get another exector added than removing her then.My Aunty isn’t incapable in regards to her mental state. More ‘not capable’ in regards to her, (how can I put this tactfully…..) lack of confidence, determination, and possibly, overall intelligence due to the complex nature of my Fathers affairs.
I’ll look in to the above mentioned time-limits, (12 / 24 months), but ideally I’d like to get the ball rolling with this asap.
gazza285 said:
My wife and her eldest sister took their younger sister to court to remove her from the executor role. Fairly straightforward, and the younger sister was landed with all the costs.
Was the youngest sister a sole executor or were all three sisters joint executors?Assuming all three were joint executors why was the youngest being so problematic if all she had to do was co-sign all the various probate docs?
(Just idle curiosity on my part!)
105.4 said:
Thanks all for your replies.
My Aunty isn’t incapable in regards to her mental state. More ‘not capable’ in regards to her, (how can I put this tactfully…..) lack of confidence, determination, and possibly, overall intelligence due to the complex nature of my Fathers affairs.
I’ll look in to the above mentioned time-limits, (12 / 24 months), but ideally I’d like to get the ball rolling with this asap.
If she's overwhelmed by the task then there's always the option of a meeting with a solicitor to arrange a pick 'n mix strategy and come to an agreement where everything is clarified and she does some of the work and you or the solicitor does the rest. My Aunty isn’t incapable in regards to her mental state. More ‘not capable’ in regards to her, (how can I put this tactfully…..) lack of confidence, determination, and possibly, overall intelligence due to the complex nature of my Fathers affairs.
I’ll look in to the above mentioned time-limits, (12 / 24 months), but ideally I’d like to get the ball rolling with this asap.
That's gotta be better than going to court to get the ball rolling.
Tommo87 said:
IANAL, but I thought an executor could pass the actual work over to a solicitors clerk to do the heavy lifting, and just sign documents as required.
Plenty of probate solicitors out there who’ll do all the work and handle all the forms and whatnot (be careful of fees though). Might be easier to steer your aunt this way especially if you can recommend a solicitor for her.
Tommo87 said:
IANAL, but I thought an executor could pass the actual work over to a solicitors clerk to do the heavy lifting, and just sign documents as required.
And therein lies the problem.My Fathers assets are split between the UK and Spain. There are UK and Spanish wills, bank accounts and investments.
My Aunty has spoken to a Spanish Solicitor, (who neither myself nor my own Spanish Solicitor can find any record of), who has told her not to sign anything, advice which my Aunty is taking literally.
This same so-called Solicitor has also told my Aunty that he can get my Fathers entire Estate sorted out for a flat rate of €180 so long as she provides him with all of my Fathers personal details. This is information that I am unwilling to provide to a Solicitor that seemingly doesn’t exist, nor is registered as a Solicitor or connected to a legal firm in either the UK or Spain.
valiant said:
Tommo87 said:
IANAL, but I thought an executor could pass the actual work over to a solicitors clerk to do the heavy lifting, and just sign documents as required.
Plenty of probate solicitors out there who’ll do all the work and handle all the forms and whatnot (be careful of fees though). Might be easier to steer your aunt this way especially if you can recommend a solicitor for her.
Offer to pay the fees yourself so she isn’t out of pocket.
mike74 said:
gazza285 said:
My wife and her eldest sister took their younger sister to court to remove her from the executor role. Fairly straightforward, and the younger sister was landed with all the costs.
Was the youngest sister a sole executor or were all three sisters joint executors?Assuming all three were joint executors why was the youngest being so problematic if all she had to do was co-sign all the various probate docs?
(Just idle curiosity on my part!)
Bizarrely, this happened five years ago, but we still hear from the solicitors who ended up sorting it all out, the SIL still hasn’t received her share of the inheritance, as she has had no contact with them since the court case went against her. She is an abusive alcoholic, her kids have been taken from her and while she is allowed supervised visits, she has had no contact with them. Horrible woman, I have disliked her since the day we met, she is so unlike her two sisters in temperament it is hard to believe they are related.
105.4 said:
My late-Father passed away on April 8th 2020, (9 months ago).
Prior to my Fathers passing, he asked his remaining sister, (my Aunty), to be Executor for his Estate, to which she agreed.
To date, she has done absolutely nothing, refuses to do anything, but also refuses to relinquish her position or sign any paperwork relating to my Fathers affairs.
A quick Google suggests that it isn’t so easy to forcefully remove an Executor from an Estate if they do not wish to revoke their duties, (even if they aren’t carrying out those duties).
I wondered if anyone on here has been in a similar position and has had any success in removing an Executor? How long did the process take? Was it something that you were able to sort out yourselves, or did you have to get Solicitors involved?
Thanks in advance
Have you seen the Will? Are you sure that she is the sole executor?Prior to my Fathers passing, he asked his remaining sister, (my Aunty), to be Executor for his Estate, to which she agreed.
To date, she has done absolutely nothing, refuses to do anything, but also refuses to relinquish her position or sign any paperwork relating to my Fathers affairs.
A quick Google suggests that it isn’t so easy to forcefully remove an Executor from an Estate if they do not wish to revoke their duties, (even if they aren’t carrying out those duties).
I wondered if anyone on here has been in a similar position and has had any success in removing an Executor? How long did the process take? Was it something that you were able to sort out yourselves, or did you have to get Solicitors involved?
Thanks in advance
Are you a beneficiary under the Will? On the assumption that you are then you can issue a `citation' against your aunt. This is a direction from the Court addressed to her requiring her to take a specific action - in this case to apply for the grant of probate.
You can only do this if you're `next in line' for the right to apply for probate. The executor is obviously first in line, but the next is a `residuary legatee', i.e. someone who receives a share in the residue of the estate, which I assume you do.
If your aunt fails to comply with the citation her right to apply disappears and you are then entitled to apply for the grant yourself.
But this is not a simple procedure, and a non-lawyer would struggle with it. You should therefore either get advice from a lawyer as to how to do it yourself or employ a lawyer to do it for you.
However, you may be able to achieve the same objective simply by writing to her, saying you’ve taken legal advice and that you intend to apply for a citation (and, if you wish, you can say that you will ask the court to order her to pay your legal costs). You can then say that she can avoid this simply by renouncing probate, which would cost her nothing. If she does you can then apply for the grant yourself.
Incidentally, is the estate subject to inheritance tax? If so, it becomes payable 6 months after the date of death, and as that time has already passed there will be interest to pay on the tax and, potentially, penalties as well. If this is the case it gives you a cast-iron reason to force the issue, as her conduct is costing the estate money.
BrettMRC said:
Probably easier to get another executor added than removing her then.
The only person that can add another executor is the person making the Will – and they’re inconveniently dead.105.4 said:
This same so-called Solicitor has also told my Aunty that he can get my Fathers entire Estate sorted out for a flat rate of €180 so long as she provides him with all of my Fathers personal details.
This is complete b
ks. I don’t know who it was your aunt spoke to but it can be safely assumed he’s a crook or an idiot or both.Pro Bono said:
Have you seen the Will? Are you sure that she is the sole executor?
Are you a beneficiary under the Will? On the assumption that you are then you can issue a `citation' against your aunt. This is a direction from the Court addressed to her requiring her to take a specific action - in this case to apply for the grant of probate.
You can only do this if you're `next in line' for the right to apply for probate. The executor is obviously first in line, but the next is a `residuary legatee', i.e. someone who receives a share in the residue of the estate, which I assume you do.
If your aunt fails to comply with the citation her right to apply disappears and you are then entitled to apply for the grant yourself.
But this is not a simple procedure, and a non-lawyer would struggle with it. You should therefore either get advice from a lawyer as to how to do it yourself or employ a lawyer to do it for you.
However, you may be able to achieve the same objective simply by writing to her, saying you’ve taken legal advice and that you intend to apply for a citation (and, if you wish, you can say that you will ask the court to order her to pay your legal costs). You can then say that she can avoid this simply by renouncing probate, which would cost her nothing. If she does you can then apply for the grant yourself.
Incidentally, is the estate subject to inheritance tax? If so, it becomes payable 6 months after the date of death, and as that time has already passed there will be interest to pay on the tax and, potentially, penalties as well. If this is the case it gives you a cast-iron reason to force the issue, as her conduct is costing the estate money.
ks. I don’t know who it was your aunt spoke to but it can be safely assumed he’s a crook or an idiot or both.
Thank you for the detailed reply.Are you a beneficiary under the Will? On the assumption that you are then you can issue a `citation' against your aunt. This is a direction from the Court addressed to her requiring her to take a specific action - in this case to apply for the grant of probate.
You can only do this if you're `next in line' for the right to apply for probate. The executor is obviously first in line, but the next is a `residuary legatee', i.e. someone who receives a share in the residue of the estate, which I assume you do.
If your aunt fails to comply with the citation her right to apply disappears and you are then entitled to apply for the grant yourself.
But this is not a simple procedure, and a non-lawyer would struggle with it. You should therefore either get advice from a lawyer as to how to do it yourself or employ a lawyer to do it for you.
However, you may be able to achieve the same objective simply by writing to her, saying you’ve taken legal advice and that you intend to apply for a citation (and, if you wish, you can say that you will ask the court to order her to pay your legal costs). You can then say that she can avoid this simply by renouncing probate, which would cost her nothing. If she does you can then apply for the grant yourself.
Incidentally, is the estate subject to inheritance tax? If so, it becomes payable 6 months after the date of death, and as that time has already passed there will be interest to pay on the tax and, potentially, penalties as well. If this is the case it gives you a cast-iron reason to force the issue, as her conduct is costing the estate money.
BrettMRC said:
Probably easier to get another executor added than removing her then.
The only person that can add another executor is the person making the Will – and they’re inconveniently dead.105.4 said:
This same so-called Solicitor has also told my Aunty that he can get my Fathers entire Estate sorted out for a flat rate of €180 so long as she provides him with all of my Fathers personal details.
This is complete bks. I don’t know who it was your aunt spoke to but it can be safely assumed he’s a crook or an idiot or both.Yes, I have seen the (Spanish) will, under which my Aunty is the Executor, a role which she agreed to do, (and promised my Father she would do), at the time the will was drawn up. This was also confirmed to myself by my Father at the time that he made his Will as he thought I was too lazy / too stupid / too untrustworthy to carry out the task.
I am not a Beneficiary of any part of my Fathers Estate. The bulk of which goes to my Aunties two (adult) children who he hasn’t had any sort of relationship with for 20+ years, (not even a Christmas card), with only a very small percentage going to my daughter, (my late-Fathers only Grandchild). I am told that under Spanish forced hereditary rules this can be appealed if I so wished, (I am my Fathers only child).
My Fathers passing wasn’t sudden. His health had been in decline for some time. Due to my travel ban and stringent licence conditions it took me over 9 months of evidence gathering and drawn-out negotiation just to obtain permission to apply for replacement British travel documents, permission to temporarily leave the UK and permission to enter Spain under compassionate grounds, (Spanish law enforcement was involved quite heavily in the case against me), by which point my Father had passed away with nobody beside him in his final moments.
It was during this time that I had repeatedly offered to pay in entirety for my Aunty and one of her children to travel out to Spain to be with my Father as he passed away, but all such generous offers were bluntly rebuked.
Since my Fathers passing I’ve had to pay for 3.5 months of chapel of rest fees, Spanish legal fees, substantial pension over-repayments and ongoing utilities costs, (water & electric standing charges + Hacienda, Spanish rates), all the while there have been several healthy offers from those interested in renting my Fathers Spanish property. And yes, Spanish death taxes are now overdue with interest charges mounting monthly.
On my second day out in Spain, (in July of last year), I urged my Aunty to get out to Spain asap and apply at the Notary for a copy of Dads will, get herself a Solicitor and apply for a Spanish NIE number, (essentially a Spanish NI number). Since that point she’s steadfastly refused to do anything or sign anything. Unfortunately her two children are just as inept as she is, (that side of the family isn’t known for its intelligence or work ethic), leaving me stuck between a rock and a hard place, a situation I suspect, manufactured by my late-Father as a final payback to me
Pro Bono said:
This is complete bks. I don’t know who it was your aunt spoke to but it can be safely assumed he’s a crook or an idiot or both.
No question about it !ks. I don’t know who it was your aunt spoke to but it can be safely assumed he’s a crook or an idiot or both.I suspect that she Googled Spanish Solicitors specialising in ex-pat deaths and clicked the link that mentioned the cheapest price without doing a single bit of due diligence.
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