ID verification for house deposit gift

[Robberto]

Hi All,

This relates to a request from our solicitor so dropping it in this section but if it should be in the home section please feel free to move

My partner and I are currently buying a house, with part of the deposit coming from her father as a gift. For money laundering checks he needs to verify his ID for our solicitor. Problem is he doesn’t have a valid passport and has not changed his driving license to a photocard.

He has his paper license, his birth certificate, council tax bill (we were advised this may carry more sway as an “official” bill rather than untility) and his expired passport from 2014. How hard is this going to be?

Our solicitor has advised that he can do this at the post office but when I asked her to generate a barcode token for him to take with him she advised she didn’t know what this was. Will they just be able to verify his docs and provide soemthing to confirm which we can include in the documents pack to our solicitor? I have tried looking online but everything comes back to this barcode token, no mention of doing it without.

He has been at his current address for 30+ years and has not otherwise engaged a solicitor in that time except maybe for his mother’s probate last year but I’m guessing one could be asked to do this for a fee? He also has a friend that is/was an accountant but he may be retired and so I’m assuming no longer able to do this?

I’m a first time buyer so pretty clueless on everything so far, any help appreciated

[BertBert]

With a very similar dilemma, I actually just popped into the village solicitor with my docs and asked them if they could do it. It helped that they had done conveyancing for me a year before, but they were very helpful and for a very sensible fee.

[BertBert]

And to add, the solicitor may need to do AML checks as to the source of the funds which is a real pain.

[Robberto]

BertBert said:

With a very similar dilemma, I actually just popped into the village solicitor with my docs and asked them if they could do it. It helped that they had done conveyancing for me a year before, but they were very helpful and for a very sensible fee.

Yes I’m beginning to think this is going to be the easiest route. I know it will vary by region and indeed solicitor but what sort of fee did you see? As an aside, we live about 100 miles from him and our solicitor is one recommended to us and is also not local to him or us so sending him to them directly isn’t an option unfortunately

BertBert said:

And to add, the solicitor may need to do AML checks as to the source of the funds which is a real pain.

We have a complete trail for the money since it came from his savings. We can show via bank statetements that more than the gift value has been in his account for a longer period than our mortgage advisor needed and we also have the transaction history from his savings > his current account > my girlfriend’s current account > her savings account where it’s still sat now. We have been told that this is all sufficient to satisfy AML regs but you never know, that could be the next hurdle!

Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated

[55palfers]

I don't understand what difference a "valid" passport makes.

He must have passed HMGs tests and checks in 2014 and I imagine the photo will still be a decent likeness.

Maybe tell then he's a Russian Oligarch and all will be well!

[JagYouAre]

Firstly, you are paying your solicitor enough money that they should be able to answer this question! We had the same situation when we recently bought a house but was easier as my dad had the standard documents.

Secondly, I work for a regulated financial firm where I have to deal with AML stuff regularly, and any such company should be able to provide a comprehensive list of what can be accepted in order to verify identity, which will include much more than just passport and drivers licences (though these are obviously the preferred docs as they contain everything you could need). Recent utility bills, HMRC docs, DWP docs etc. should all be on there. You might have to provide more than one document but ask for a list of what can be accepted and there should be something on there.

[Pica-Pica]

BertBert said:

With a very similar dilemma, I actually just popped into the village solicitor with my docs and asked them if they could do it. It helped that they had done conveyancing for me a year before, but they were very helpful and for a very sensible fee.

On selling my mum’s house, I dropped into the first solicitor I could find, with my passport, and they photocopied it and signed as a true likeness, no fee at all. On the documents my signature was also verified by a local minister of religion. This was in 2018.

[BertBert]

I think it cost me £10 from memory, might even have been £5.

[Robberto]

Thanks all

Whoever mentioned DWP docs, I’d forgotten about those so will ask him if he can dig out latest of those to help

Local solicitor should do it. As someone mentioned his 2014 passport picture is clearly him so even if it can’t directly be used by our solicitor it should still help

[HocusPocus]

Essentially there are no absolute fixed rules. Passing AML checks is about building a picture which matches an expected profile, so context is important. Your dad needs to demonstrate who he is, where he lives and the source of funds being handled by the solicitor in the house purchase.

Any official photo id, passport (expired helps but is not definitive), drivers licence, birth certificate, pension related ID cards.

Rates bill, voter registration, bank statement, utility bill to prove where he lives.

Finally bank statements to show where the money is, short note to explain how he came by the money (just saying savings is not enough). Was it sales proceed of a business, inheritance or salary?

So a former blue collar worker, living in a small terrace house giving say £250k to a descendant may be suspicious; but not if it comes from a powerfully built pensioner living in a mega mansion.

[fido]

Just to piggy-back off this thread - do i need to show a bank account when purchasing a property? I have never had to do this before whether buying cash or with a mortgage.

[HocusPocus]

fido said:

Just to piggy-back off this thread - do i need to show a bank account when purchasing a property? I have never had to do this before whether buying cash or with a mortgage.

Just because you never have done before should not be read as it wont be needed next time.

AML is all about proving to the lawyer, bank, broker, IFA etc handling the transaction your ID, where you live and the money is not the proceeds of crime.

AML rules exist in many disciplines and change with increasing regularity. Years ago, my IFA needed proof of address, so I asked for his phone directory and tore out the page with my details telling him to stick that in his KYC file. Could not get away with that today!

[98elise]

HocusPocus said:

fido said:

Just to piggy-back off this thread - do i need to show a bank account when purchasing a property? I have never had to do this before whether buying cash or with a mortgage.

Just because you never have done before should not be read as it wont be needed next time.

AML is all about proving to the lawyer, bank, broker, IFA etc handling the transaction your ID, where you live and the money is not the proceeds of crime.

AML rules exist in many disciplines and change with increasing regularity. Years ago, my IFA needed proof of address, so I asked for his phone directory and tore out the page with my details telling him to stick that in his KYC file. Could not get away with that today!

My IFA is a friend of over 40 years and has done multiple mortgages for me over the past 10 years, both residential and BTL. Each time I have to send him proof of who I am and where the money is coming from!

[Robberto]

fido said:

Just to piggy-back off this thread - do i need to show a bank account when purchasing a property? I have never had to do this before whether buying cash or with a mortgage.

We have had to show bank statements to the lender to prove income and expenditures and to back up the numbers put into the affordability check and we had to give an app called ThirdFort access to our savings accounts to show where the funds were sat and possibly to current accounts to show transfers into savings in line with earnings etc. I assume that’s enough to prove we’re not money laundering drug dealers as there’s been no follow-up requests yet.

Now we just need to prove the same for her dad which is way more difficult than it should be if you knew him

[BertBert]

And from my experience of this, the people in the solicitors doing the checks have an extraordinarily poor understanding of their actual obligations to do AML checks.

Last go round ended up in a bit of an argument. I did some reading on the subject including guidance from the professional body and instantly indeed more about it than the solicitor.

I get why it's required, AML that is, but it's being undertaken in an utterly hapless way. HSBC's efforts on a different occasion were laughable!

[Robberto]

BertBert said:

And from my experience of this, the people in the solicitors doing the checks have an extraordinarily poor understanding of their actual obligations to do AML checks.

Last go round ended up in a bit of an argument. I did some reading on the subject including guidance from the professional body and instantly indeed more about it than the solicitor.

I get why it's required, AML that is, but it's being undertaken in an utterly hapless way. HSBC's efforts on a different occasion were laughable!

You’d think they’d be experts at that!
“Yep, money laundering, we’ve got you covered don’t you worry! Oh, anti money laundering? Sorry, can’t help you there”

[mcflurry]

BertBert said:

And from my experience of this, the people in the solicitors doing the checks have an extraordinarily poor understanding of their actual obligations to do AML checks.

Definitely.. I had a solicitor's PA ask me to go to the Estate Agent and get them to sign a photocopy of my passport instead, because they thought the person who signed wasn't "allowed" to

Ironically, the autograph belonged to the Head of Money laundering for one of the world's largest banks

[fred bloggs]

When I was gifted some money towards a house purchase, my soliciter asked , 'so this has come from your savings, yes ? '

[fido]

BertBert said:

Last go round ended up in a bit of an argument. I did some reading on the subject including guidance from the professional body and instantly indeed more about it than the solicitor.

Well that's what has happen between myself and solicitor unfortunately and I have asked for a copy of their complaints procedure so I can take taking it to the SRA. I understand the rules but being deliberately obstructive isn't on. She has made up things on the spot e.g. telling me a BT phone bill doesn't count as proof of address! And then doesn't reply when I do come up with something. My previous solicitor has retired - never had problems with her and if there was a problem they were resolved easily.

Edited by fido on Wednesday 19th January 16:38

[HocusPocus]

fido said:

BertBert said:

Last go round ended up in a bit of an argument. I did some reading on the subject including guidance from the professional body and instantly indeed more about it than the solicitor.

Well that's what has happen between myself and solicitor unfortunately and I have asked for a copy of their complaints procedure so I can take taking it to the SRA. I understand the rules but being deliberately obstructive isn't on. She has made up things on the spot e.g. telling me a BT phone bill doesn't count as proof of address! And then doesn't reply when I do come up with something. My previous solicitor has retired - never had problems with her and if there was a problem they were resolved easily.

Edited by fido on Wednesday 19th January 16:38

Unfortunately the legal profession is a little late into the AML game compared with banks and investment industry, and it is largely made up of relatively small local firms with only a few international leviathans. Knowledge, awareness and service levels will vary whilst the profession culturally gets to grips with AML; yes, and the public will be frustrated by inconsistency.

Before you reach for the SRA bat, please remember the lawyers are subject to career ending criminal/DSQ sanctions for fking up AML rules; and they are human too!