Land Sale Problem
Discussion
My elderly uncle had the brilliant idea of sinking his life savings into a plot of land which has planning permission for a house, although he didn't actually have the money to build the house. His cunning plan was to get planning for a second house and split the land.
Planning wasn't given, and he put the plot on the market. Someone came forward and offered a deposit on the land. I understand his solicitor had the purchaser sign an agreement for the balance to be paid in a reasonable time, or the deposit would be forfeit. The solicitor advised this was 28 days, and the deposit was paid in December. I understand that the purchaser wanted to make a change to the planning permission hence the deposit. All sounds a bit fishy to me. Also the purchaser is not someone I would like to meet in a dark alley.
The purchaser asked for permission to clear the plot and my uncle's solicitor "seems" to advised my uncle this was a reasonable request and my uncle signed a document agreeing to this, nothing more. No exchange of contracts.
My uncle went to check the plot and the "purchaser" has not only cleared the land, but built a house on it all in a month.
The electric and water supply are in his name, I said to make sure they are disconnected. And his solicitor still has the deeds.
Uncle is going to speak to his solicitor again tomorrow, but is really worried and sound near suicidal. He is at the other end of the country. I lost my Dad 30 years ago through suicide, and just wondered if anyone could clarify the law to me.
Planning wasn't given, and he put the plot on the market. Someone came forward and offered a deposit on the land. I understand his solicitor had the purchaser sign an agreement for the balance to be paid in a reasonable time, or the deposit would be forfeit. The solicitor advised this was 28 days, and the deposit was paid in December. I understand that the purchaser wanted to make a change to the planning permission hence the deposit. All sounds a bit fishy to me. Also the purchaser is not someone I would like to meet in a dark alley.
The purchaser asked for permission to clear the plot and my uncle's solicitor "seems" to advised my uncle this was a reasonable request and my uncle signed a document agreeing to this, nothing more. No exchange of contracts.
My uncle went to check the plot and the "purchaser" has not only cleared the land, but built a house on it all in a month.
The electric and water supply are in his name, I said to make sure they are disconnected. And his solicitor still has the deeds.
Uncle is going to speak to his solicitor again tomorrow, but is really worried and sound near suicidal. He is at the other end of the country. I lost my Dad 30 years ago through suicide, and just wondered if anyone could clarify the law to me.
I'm having my own little issue with Land, which I shall not go into. 18 months in and I fear another year minimum to resolve.
However, what I have learnt is that some (and suspect most) solicitors who do conveyancing, are incapable of advising on anything more complex than a simple buy and sell.
You need proper legal advice and you need it from a solicitor who specialises in Land disputes.
Whilst the current problems I am experiencing were not caused by the the initial solicitor, their advice definitely has caused delay and additional costs. The best thing they did was when they said "this is too hard for us, go and find somebody else". (or words to that effect..)
As far as I can see, as long as you don't delay 10+ years, you should have a simple case- but I wouldn't trust my opinion and neither should you.
However, what I have learnt is that some (and suspect most) solicitors who do conveyancing, are incapable of advising on anything more complex than a simple buy and sell.
You need proper legal advice and you need it from a solicitor who specialises in Land disputes.
Whilst the current problems I am experiencing were not caused by the the initial solicitor, their advice definitely has caused delay and additional costs. The best thing they did was when they said "this is too hard for us, go and find somebody else". (or words to that effect..)
As far as I can see, as long as you don't delay 10+ years, you should have a simple case- but I wouldn't trust my opinion and neither should you.
Edited by OverSteery on Monday 31st January 21:29
Happy Jim said:
Cleared the land and built a house in a month…..unlikely!
Plonked a mobile home on it maybe?
If the OP posts the general area, I'm sure a local PH member would volunteer to have a look at the land/house (assuming the OP isn't local).Plonked a mobile home on it maybe?
I'd be happy to if it's near me.
Edited by 98elise on Thursday 3rd February 09:52
[quote=OverSteery ]I'm having my own little issue with Land, which I shall not go into. 18 months in and I fear another year minimum to resolve.
However, what I have learnt is that some (and suspect most) solicitors who do conveyancing, are incapable of advising on anything more complex than a simple buy and sell.
You need proper legal advice and you need it from a solicitor who specialises in Land disputes.
Never a truer word and uncomfortable because sadly the quality of Solicitors and Barristers vary massively and they often come up short (sadly their PI insurers are often better educated!)
Is the nice potential purchaser as person who likes Dags and travellin, because if so, this is possibly only going to be more problematic
However, what I have learnt is that some (and suspect most) solicitors who do conveyancing, are incapable of advising on anything more complex than a simple buy and sell.
You need proper legal advice and you need it from a solicitor who specialises in Land disputes.
Never a truer word and uncomfortable because sadly the quality of Solicitors and Barristers vary massively and they often come up short (sadly their PI insurers are often better educated!)
Is the nice potential purchaser as person who likes Dags and travellin, because if so, this is possibly only going to be more problematic
Edited by DaveA8 on Tuesday 1st February 10:06
Happy Jim said:
Cleared the land and built a house in a month…..unlikely!
Pretty much bloody impossible!We used to be able to do it against a 10 week program for a show home, but that throwing major resources at it and having operatives crawling over the site like ants!
He might have got a fair way with erecting the shell, though, I suppose.
Might also be worth checking whether there were any pre-commencement conditions to discharge on the Planning consent, as it is highly unlikely that these could have been discharged in such a short timescale and without them the development is 'unlawful' in Planning terms, regardless of land ownership issues (in which case you might be able to get the LPA enforcement team in on your side, to put a 'stop' notice on any further work).
It does all sound very odd, though, and I'd have been inclined to give Jeremy's response!
Equus said:
Pretty much bloody impossible!
We used to be able to do it against a 10 week program for a show home, but that throwing major resources at it and having operatives crawling over the site like ants!
He might have got a fair way with erecting the shell, though, I suppose.
Might also be worth checking whether there were any pre-commencement conditions to discharge on the Planning consent, as it is highly unlikely that these could have been discharged in such a short timescale and without them the development is 'unlawful' in Planning terms, regardless of land ownership issues (in which case you might be able to get the LPA enforcement team in on your side, to put a 'stop' notice on any further work).
It does all sound very odd, though, and I'd have been inclined to give Jeremy's response!
I haven't seen the land or the new "house" but I suspect it might be walls and roof, I don't think it is a big cottage. I will report back when my Uncle has seen his solicitor. It is in north Wales near Llandudno, on a massive hill. I don't really know a lot more, except everything my Uncle seems to do goes wrong!We used to be able to do it against a 10 week program for a show home, but that throwing major resources at it and having operatives crawling over the site like ants!
He might have got a fair way with erecting the shell, though, I suppose.
Might also be worth checking whether there were any pre-commencement conditions to discharge on the Planning consent, as it is highly unlikely that these could have been discharged in such a short timescale and without them the development is 'unlawful' in Planning terms, regardless of land ownership issues (in which case you might be able to get the LPA enforcement team in on your side, to put a 'stop' notice on any further work).
It does all sound very odd, though, and I'd have been inclined to give Jeremy's response!
lost in espace said:
I haven't seen the land or the new "house" but I suspect it might be walls and roof, I don't think it is a big cottage. I will report back when my Uncle has seen his solicitor. It is in north Wales near Llandudno, on a massive hill. I don't really know a lot more, except everything my Uncle seems to do goes wrong!
I'm not far away, happy to take a nice drive out there and report back if it helps?lost in espace said:
I haven't seen the land or the new "house" but I suspect it might be walls and roof, I don't think it is a big cottage. I will report back when my Uncle has seen his solicitor. It is in north Wales near Llandudno, on a massive hill. I don't really know a lot more, except everything my Uncle seems to do goes wrong!
Lovely area lost in espace said:
My elderly uncle had the brilliant idea of sinking his life savings into a plot of land which has planning permission for a house, although he didn't actually have the money to build the house. His cunning plan was to get planning for a second house and split the land.
Planning wasn't given, and he put the plot on the market. Someone came forward and offered a deposit on the land. I understand his solicitor had the purchaser sign an agreement for the balance to be paid in a reasonable time, or the deposit would be forfeit. The solicitor advised this was 28 days, and the deposit was paid in December. I understand that the purchaser wanted to make a change to the planning permission hence the deposit. All sounds a bit fishy to me. Also the purchaser is not someone I would like to meet in a dark alley.
The purchaser asked for permission to clear the plot and my uncle's solicitor "seems" to advised my uncle this was a reasonable request and my uncle signed a document agreeing to this, nothing more. No exchange of contracts.
My uncle went to check the plot and the "purchaser" has not only cleared the land, but built a house on it all in a month.
The electric and water supply are in his name, I said to make sure they are disconnected. And his solicitor still has the deeds.
Uncle is going to speak to his solicitor again tomorrow, but is really worried and sound near suicidal. He is at the other end of the country. I lost my Dad 30 years ago through suicide, and just wondered if anyone could clarify the law to me.
So if I have read this correctly, your Uncle's solicitor still has the deeds (so the land is still in your Uncle's name)?Planning wasn't given, and he put the plot on the market. Someone came forward and offered a deposit on the land. I understand his solicitor had the purchaser sign an agreement for the balance to be paid in a reasonable time, or the deposit would be forfeit. The solicitor advised this was 28 days, and the deposit was paid in December. I understand that the purchaser wanted to make a change to the planning permission hence the deposit. All sounds a bit fishy to me. Also the purchaser is not someone I would like to meet in a dark alley.
The purchaser asked for permission to clear the plot and my uncle's solicitor "seems" to advised my uncle this was a reasonable request and my uncle signed a document agreeing to this, nothing more. No exchange of contracts.
My uncle went to check the plot and the "purchaser" has not only cleared the land, but built a house on it all in a month.
The electric and water supply are in his name, I said to make sure they are disconnected. And his solicitor still has the deeds.
Uncle is going to speak to his solicitor again tomorrow, but is really worried and sound near suicidal. He is at the other end of the country. I lost my Dad 30 years ago through suicide, and just wondered if anyone could clarify the law to me.
But you are waiting on the rest of the money to be paid before signing over correct?
If so, then what's the issue? Surely you just wait for payment in full and then sign over.
Your uncle effectively currently has a free built house on his land is what i'm seeing from this, albeit someone else living in it.. until they pay the remaining balance. I'd say the court is in your Uncle's favour. You need to lay out a deadline for the rest of the payment.
Edited by J2daG1990 on Tuesday 1st February 17:34
Edited by J2daG1990 on Tuesday 1st February 17:36
In my experience of house sales , solicitors are very anal about NOT permitting prospective buyers to have any access or start any sort of work to a house until contracts have neen exchanged.
Any solicitor who advises a client into doing this is inviting trouble and a potential law suit because , as this case shows, so much can go wrong as there is little to gain from the seller's perspective and so much to lose.
Any solicitor who advises a client into doing this is inviting trouble and a potential law suit because , as this case shows, so much can go wrong as there is little to gain from the seller's perspective and so much to lose.
This is really complex legally as there are so many aspects of the law of property that come into play
Your uncle needs to consult a solicitor who is an experienced litigator well versed in property law.
He could also seek advice from a barrister under the direct access scheme, there are limitations on the assistance they can give, which their clerk will explain.
Your uncle needs to consult a solicitor who is an experienced litigator well versed in property law.
He could also seek advice from a barrister under the direct access scheme, there are limitations on the assistance they can give, which their clerk will explain.
DaveA8 said:
If this has gone the way I reckon it has, the legal title of the land is the least of the issues (unless someone has a very strong stomach for potential aggravation).
The mistake was getting involved with someone "you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alleyway"
Where do you get the info from the last sentence - nothing from OP that I’ve read. The mistake was getting involved with someone "you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alleyway"
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