Personal Injury lawyer - quick advice?
Discussion
I am looking for some advice as to whether the following situation is something my parents should pursue.
Summer last year, my elderly parents attended an open air concert at a stately home. On their way back to the car, they followed the route they came in, and went down some steps that were unlit ( not even back lit by lights on in windows) (this was about at about 10pm). My mum used her light on an iphone to navigate the stairs, my Dad doesn't own a phone, and at or near the bottom of the steps, fell and hurt himself - possible concussion, significant bruising, shocked, confused, damaged glasses. My mum took a photo of the bruising the following day - it is significant.
However, he fell onto his replacement hip, which has subsequently caused him significant pain, but only in the last few weeks. Although there were prior twinges since the summer.
He has seen a consultant who is of the opinion that the fall misaligned the prosthetic, and it is likely that subsequent walking, golfing and gardening exacerbated the problem. He now is in agony and cannot move more than a few steps.
He has a couple of choices, wait for a hip replacement on the NHS ( 3-4 years, and the subsequent limitations on lifestyle that imposes) or pay for a new hip operation c£10k. He is wealthy enough for the latter and will probably do that anyway, as the pain is so bad.
However is there any case here that a PI lawyer could get stuck into. My parents don't really have the fight in them anymore, so I am doing a little research before deciding if they should just 'suck it up'
TL:DR
unlit steep steps, on way back to car, contributed to a person falling and suffer injury.
I am sure that there are a million 'what about's' etc but its the establishment of proof I am interested in. That is do they need to prove that they were at the concert on the day in question etc. What else do they have to provide?
Summer last year, my elderly parents attended an open air concert at a stately home. On their way back to the car, they followed the route they came in, and went down some steps that were unlit ( not even back lit by lights on in windows) (this was about at about 10pm). My mum used her light on an iphone to navigate the stairs, my Dad doesn't own a phone, and at or near the bottom of the steps, fell and hurt himself - possible concussion, significant bruising, shocked, confused, damaged glasses. My mum took a photo of the bruising the following day - it is significant.
However, he fell onto his replacement hip, which has subsequently caused him significant pain, but only in the last few weeks. Although there were prior twinges since the summer.
He has seen a consultant who is of the opinion that the fall misaligned the prosthetic, and it is likely that subsequent walking, golfing and gardening exacerbated the problem. He now is in agony and cannot move more than a few steps.
He has a couple of choices, wait for a hip replacement on the NHS ( 3-4 years, and the subsequent limitations on lifestyle that imposes) or pay for a new hip operation c£10k. He is wealthy enough for the latter and will probably do that anyway, as the pain is so bad.
However is there any case here that a PI lawyer could get stuck into. My parents don't really have the fight in them anymore, so I am doing a little research before deciding if they should just 'suck it up'
TL:DR
unlit steep steps, on way back to car, contributed to a person falling and suffer injury.
I am sure that there are a million 'what about's' etc but its the establishment of proof I am interested in. That is do they need to prove that they were at the concert on the day in question etc. What else do they have to provide?
Not a lawyer, but sounds a strange scenario to be honest.
You’ll get a lot of replies saying move on, pay for the operation etc etc
However, was this an “official” type exit, were other people using it? Sounds bizarre to have steps without lighting for a public event.
If it was an official route for the public, then there should be health and safety documentation, risk assessments done by the organiser etc. so there’d be plenty of evidence to disclose.
You’ll get a lot of replies saying move on, pay for the operation etc etc
However, was this an “official” type exit, were other people using it? Sounds bizarre to have steps without lighting for a public event.
If it was an official route for the public, then there should be health and safety documentation, risk assessments done by the organiser etc. so there’d be plenty of evidence to disclose.
Largechris said:
Not a lawyer, but sounds a strange scenario to be honest.
You’ll get a lot of replies saying move on, pay for the operation etc etc
However, was this an “official” type exit, were other people using it? Sounds bizarre to have steps without lighting for a public event.
If it was an official route for the public, then there should be health and safety documentation, risk assessments done by the organiser etc. so there’d be plenty of evidence to disclose.
yes an official (but not main) exit, and yes other people were using it, and there were no signs stating 'no entry'. H&S was my view, either an assessment has taken place, or it hasn't. I guess that's straight forward to find out.You’ll get a lot of replies saying move on, pay for the operation etc etc
However, was this an “official” type exit, were other people using it? Sounds bizarre to have steps without lighting for a public event.
If it was an official route for the public, then there should be health and safety documentation, risk assessments done by the organiser etc. so there’d be plenty of evidence to disclose.
Just to pose an alternative view...
A stately home venue is an outdoor / countryside venue - why would you expect lighting everywhere?
If someone has a disability / instability then it might be expected that they would contact the organisers regarding easy access / egress - having not done that, and chosen their route is it not up to them to take care? If having got to the stairs and considered them too tricky, they could have returned and asked for assistance... if your mother navigated the stairs okay and so did many others, then presumably it was not the absence of lighting on the stairs that caused the issue?
If there was no provision for those with less stability / the event was not signposted as unsuitable for those with low mobility / the organisers forced your parents along that route despite their requesting an easier route, then you might have a case, but not sure it sounds like that...
If I were the event's insurers with good lawyers I think they would have many routes to choose in defending this - not least the length of time in making the complaint...
you might win with a PI lawyer, the insurers might not defend it - but equally, is it actually the fault of non-lighting, or did other decisions also contribute to the circumstances?
A stately home venue is an outdoor / countryside venue - why would you expect lighting everywhere?
If someone has a disability / instability then it might be expected that they would contact the organisers regarding easy access / egress - having not done that, and chosen their route is it not up to them to take care? If having got to the stairs and considered them too tricky, they could have returned and asked for assistance... if your mother navigated the stairs okay and so did many others, then presumably it was not the absence of lighting on the stairs that caused the issue?
If there was no provision for those with less stability / the event was not signposted as unsuitable for those with low mobility / the organisers forced your parents along that route despite their requesting an easier route, then you might have a case, but not sure it sounds like that...
If I were the event's insurers with good lawyers I think they would have many routes to choose in defending this - not least the length of time in making the complaint...
you might win with a PI lawyer, the insurers might not defend it - but equally, is it actually the fault of non-lighting, or did other decisions also contribute to the circumstances?
RB Will said:
Presumably you would need some sort of evidence it happened on the steps in question?
Photo of him on the floor there
Accident log
Ambulance call out
Independent witnesses
Otherwise they will probably just say he fell over at home and looking to blame them
Again, not a lawyer, but anything like that ^^^ would help with a claim but accidents do sometimes happen without witnesses. Other evidence, testimony etc. after the event can win a case. Photo of him on the floor there
Accident log
Ambulance call out
Independent witnesses
Otherwise they will probably just say he fell over at home and looking to blame them
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
yes an official (but not main) exit, and yes other people were using it, and there were no signs stating 'no entry'. H&S was my view, either an assessment has taken place, or it hasn't. I guess that's straight forward to find out.
When you say “no entry”, at gigs I go to if you are leaving there is literally a sign saying “no exit” if the organisers don’t want you to go that way. They often remove swap the signs during the concert to get traffic going where they want. Not saying this was your parents, but near the end of a gig people are often scrambling looking for shortcuts, particularly to get ahead of the car park queue.
Again, this signage should all be documented by the organiser.
RB Will said:
Presumably you would need some sort of evidence it happened on the steps in question?
Photo of him on the floor there
Accident log
Ambulance call out
Independent witnesses
Otherwise they will probably just say he fell over at home and looking to blame them
yes to all those questions except the ambulance/log.Photo of him on the floor there
Accident log
Ambulance call out
Independent witnesses
Otherwise they will probably just say he fell over at home and looking to blame them
akirk said:
Just to pose an alternative view...
A stately home venue is an outdoor / countryside venue - why would you expect lighting everywhere?
If someone has a disability / instability then it might be expected that they would contact the organisers regarding easy access / egress - having not done that, and chosen their route is it not up to them to take care? If having got to the stairs and considered them too tricky, they could have returned and asked for assistance... if your mother navigated the stairs okay and so did many others, then presumably it was not the absence of lighting on the stairs that caused the issue?
If there was no provision for those with less stability / the event was not signposted as unsuitable for those with low mobility / the organisers forced your parents along that route despite their requesting an easier route, then you might have a case, but not sure it sounds like that...
If I were the event's insurers with good lawyers I think they would have many routes to choose in defending this - not least the length of time in making the complaint...
you might win with a PI lawyer, the insurers might not defend it - but equally, is it actually the fault of non-lighting, or did other decisions also contribute to the circumstances?
Maybe, but we don’t know that others didn’t have issues, and the way it reads he missed a step in the darkness, which wasn’t caused by any previous mobility issues and could have happened to anyone. A stately home venue is an outdoor / countryside venue - why would you expect lighting everywhere?
If someone has a disability / instability then it might be expected that they would contact the organisers regarding easy access / egress - having not done that, and chosen their route is it not up to them to take care? If having got to the stairs and considered them too tricky, they could have returned and asked for assistance... if your mother navigated the stairs okay and so did many others, then presumably it was not the absence of lighting on the stairs that caused the issue?
If there was no provision for those with less stability / the event was not signposted as unsuitable for those with low mobility / the organisers forced your parents along that route despite their requesting an easier route, then you might have a case, but not sure it sounds like that...
If I were the event's insurers with good lawyers I think they would have many routes to choose in defending this - not least the length of time in making the complaint...
you might win with a PI lawyer, the insurers might not defend it - but equally, is it actually the fault of non-lighting, or did other decisions also contribute to the circumstances?
av185 said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Although there were prior twinges since the summer.
Could be a stumbling block, so to speak.Largechris said:
When you say “no entry”, at gigs I go to if you are leaving there is literally a sign saying “no exit” if the organisers don’t want you to go that way. They often remove swap the signs during the concert to get traffic going where they want.
Not saying this was your parents, but near the end of a gig people are often scrambling looking for shortcuts, particularly to get ahead of the car park queue.
Again, this signage should all be documented by the organiser.
apparently this was also the official route to the toilets, and that there were 'lights' embedded in the steps but they weren't on.Not saying this was your parents, but near the end of a gig people are often scrambling looking for shortcuts, particularly to get ahead of the car park queue.
Again, this signage should all be documented by the organiser.
akirk said:
Just to pose an alternative view...
A stately home venue is an outdoor / countryside venue - why would you expect lighting everywhere? I wouldn't, but this was a route to the toilet so...
If someone has a disability / instability then it might be expected that they would contact the organisers regarding easy access / egress - having not done that, and chosen their route is it not up to them to take care?
My dad did not have any known instability, he's just old.
If I were the event's insurers with good lawyers I think they would have many routes to choose in defending this - not least the length of time in making the complaint... time is no barrier for illness. Sometimes things don't become apparent until much later.
you might win with a PI lawyer, the insurers might not defend it - but equally, is it actually the fault of non-lighting, or did other decisions also contribute to the circumstances?
A stately home venue is an outdoor / countryside venue - why would you expect lighting everywhere? I wouldn't, but this was a route to the toilet so...
If someone has a disability / instability then it might be expected that they would contact the organisers regarding easy access / egress - having not done that, and chosen their route is it not up to them to take care?
My dad did not have any known instability, he's just old.
- If having got to the stairs and considered them too tricky, they could have returned and asked for assistance... if your mother navigated the stairs okay and so did many others, then presumably it was not the absence of lighting on the stairs that caused the issue?. It didn't help though did it.
If I were the event's insurers with good lawyers I think they would have many routes to choose in defending this - not least the length of time in making the complaint... time is no barrier for illness. Sometimes things don't become apparent until much later.
you might win with a PI lawyer, the insurers might not defend it - but equally, is it actually the fault of non-lighting, or did other decisions also contribute to the circumstances?
your father fell over sorry for that, but why is that someone else fault, he was walking in the dark on unlit steps, why does everything have to be someone elses fault and hold your hand out wanting money, this is why everything costs us all more in the long run, your dads fault nobody else.
Im disabled, can just walk with a stick, the other day i tripped and fell on the pavement, broke my nose and other cuts to the face etc, did i sue the council, or did i chalk it up to an accident and move on, well obviously the latter, im a grown up and chose to walk along that street, and next time will take more care, its called life, bad things happen nobody is to blame.
In fact im horrified you even ask the question
Im disabled, can just walk with a stick, the other day i tripped and fell on the pavement, broke my nose and other cuts to the face etc, did i sue the council, or did i chalk it up to an accident and move on, well obviously the latter, im a grown up and chose to walk along that street, and next time will take more care, its called life, bad things happen nobody is to blame.
In fact im horrified you even ask the question
andybracing said:
your father fell over sorry for that, but why is that someone else fault, he was walking in the dark on unlit steps, why does everything have to be someone elses fault and hold your hand out wanting money, this is why everything costs us all more in the long run, your dads fault nobody else.
Im disabled, can just walk with a stick, the other day i tripped and fell on the pavement, broke my nose and other cuts to the face etc, did i sue the council, or did i chalk it up to an accident and move on, well obviously the latter, im a grown up and chose to walk along that street, and next time will take more care, its called life, bad things happen nobody is to blame.
In fact im horrified you even ask the question
Have to agreeIm disabled, can just walk with a stick, the other day i tripped and fell on the pavement, broke my nose and other cuts to the face etc, did i sue the council, or did i chalk it up to an accident and move on, well obviously the latter, im a grown up and chose to walk along that street, and next time will take more care, its called life, bad things happen nobody is to blame.
In fact im horrified you even ask the question
I'm really sorry OP to hear about the injury and subsequent pain - but it's no-ones fault other than your Father's for slipping!
maybe in America, this would be acceptable but I don't think it's deliberately negligent, so no case , of course I'm not a lawyer, but that's my personal opinion - if they were walking along a purposefully made suspended walk way which collapsed, I'd be in agreement with you, some legal action may be necessary - but it seems an older gentleman lost his footing (had he had a few shandies being a concert?) without paying attention.
I wish him a speedy recovery
But then a PI solicitor is going to as petty and obnoxious as they can be to win…. They go to the lowest depths to find someone who they can extort money out off….
People should accept risk and live with it or stay at home… mind you, you’ll then trip over the carpet and want to blame the fitter from the 1980’s
People should accept risk and live with it or stay at home… mind you, you’ll then trip over the carpet and want to blame the fitter from the 1980’s
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