Use of motor vehicle without third party insurance
Discussion
Hi there.
I'm usually the one dealing with my fathers' car admin due to his age and lack of computer skills. We both have our own cars and we sometimes drive each other's cars. Both cars are insured fully comp.
Every insurance I've ever purchased has covered driving other cars 3rd party and I assumed this was still the case and I had told my father this. Sadly I was mistaken.
Last week he was driving my car and got stopped for not wearing a seatbelt
, the officer checked his details and it came out that his insurance did not cover other vehicles. Consequently, he's been given a fixed penalty notice of £300 and 6 points for driving without insurance and £100 for the seatbelt.
I understand this is all on us, particularly me with not checking the details properly which makes me feel guilty. Is there any way of getting out of this? He lost his business due to covid and is getting a state pension now, so financially the penalty and the insurance premium will take a big hit on his finances.
Any help and advice is greatly appriciated.
I'm usually the one dealing with my fathers' car admin due to his age and lack of computer skills. We both have our own cars and we sometimes drive each other's cars. Both cars are insured fully comp.
Every insurance I've ever purchased has covered driving other cars 3rd party and I assumed this was still the case and I had told my father this. Sadly I was mistaken.
Last week he was driving my car and got stopped for not wearing a seatbelt
, the officer checked his details and it came out that his insurance did not cover other vehicles. Consequently, he's been given a fixed penalty notice of £300 and 6 points for driving without insurance and £100 for the seatbelt.I understand this is all on us, particularly me with not checking the details properly which makes me feel guilty. Is there any way of getting out of this? He lost his business due to covid and is getting a state pension now, so financially the penalty and the insurance premium will take a big hit on his finances.
Any help and advice is greatly appriciated.
i doubt there is anything that can be done, aside from you coughing up for his fines as you were the person he trusted to deal with the insurance in the first place.
Generally adding a second driver reduces insurance....takes 20% off my policy for having the wife as a named driver and vice versa
Generally adding a second driver reduces insurance....takes 20% off my policy for having the wife as a named driver and vice versa
Can never understand why people don't wear a seat belt there is zero logic to not wearing one.
Can't see what way out you or your dad has, bang to rights and not as if you can go back to the insurance and see if they would cover you retrospectivly if there was a mistake made.
Actually is there a possibility of your dad electing to go to court to see if they could reduce the fine.
Can't see what way out you or your dad has, bang to rights and not as if you can go back to the insurance and see if they would cover you retrospectivly if there was a mistake made.
Actually is there a possibility of your dad electing to go to court to see if they could reduce the fine.
SmoothCriminal said:
Actually is there a possibility of your dad electing to go to court to see if they could reduce the fine.
A relative went to court for this and the judge said he was sympathetic because most car policies cover driving other cars, but there was nothing he could do as it was black 'n' white. 6 points and a fine (I forget how much). ConnectionError said:
Read the small print in future
There is no small print. Just normal sized print people are too lazy to read. And the DOC extension wording appears on the actual certificate. Not everybody reads their policy, although they should, but everybody surely has to read their certificate!No way out OP. The law says the driver is responsible for ensuring they are insured to drive. You arranged the cover, but it was his job to check the documentation to ensure it met with his requirements.
The only exception is sometimes with company cars, in the right circumstances. Clearly not the case here.
andburg said:
Generally adding a second driver reduces insurance....takes 20% off my policy for having the wife as a named driver and vice versa
Not always, it depends on the age of the other party. At my renewal last year I had it confirmed by more than 1 company that it was no long beneficial for me to have 1 or both of my parents on my policy as they are both now over 70 & actually put the price up. So the OP being an additional driver on his dads policy may be helpful but not the dad on the OPs policy.Actually,
Is it not a defense to say that you believed that the insurance was valid.
Your father was told by you that the insurance was valid - if you provide a statement that says you told him that the insurance was valid.
Of course - you may have to be careful that the police then don't come after you?
Is it not a defense to say that you believed that the insurance was valid.
Your father was told by you that the insurance was valid - if you provide a statement that says you told him that the insurance was valid.
Of course - you may have to be careful that the police then don't come after you?
I just struggle to understand why you weren’t both named drivers on the others’ policies. Expensive mistake!
I would also observe - having just renewed mine - that there are very few companies left who offer DOC cover. It used to be the norm many years ago, but seems to have almost disappeared.
I would also observe - having just renewed mine - that there are very few companies left who offer DOC cover. It used to be the norm many years ago, but seems to have almost disappeared.
NugentS said:
Actually,
Is it not a defense to say that you believed that the insurance was valid.
Your father was told by you that the insurance was valid - if you provide a statement that says you told him that the insurance was valid.
Of course - you may have to be careful that the police then don't come after you?
How can you 'believe' the insurance was valid when it was your own insurance which you hadn't bothered to read!Is it not a defense to say that you believed that the insurance was valid.
Your father was told by you that the insurance was valid - if you provide a statement that says you told him that the insurance was valid.
Of course - you may have to be careful that the police then don't come after you?
I do, sort of, see what you are saying but if it was that easy then no one would have insurance because they all 'believed' their wife, father, uncle, brother, friend, pet cat, etc, etc. had told them that the insurance was valid.
Thank you for the replies. I agree it was a f
k up by both of us, especially him not wearing a seatbelt - something both my sister and I have been trying to instil in him for decades and he still refuses.
This isn't his first time messing up tbh as he's extremely careless and it's just so exhausting trying to keep up with his constant driving issues. sigh
k up by both of us, especially him not wearing a seatbelt - something both my sister and I have been trying to instil in him for decades and he still refuses. This isn't his first time messing up tbh as he's extremely careless and it's just so exhausting trying to keep up with his constant driving issues. sigh
NugentS said:
Actually,
Is it not a defense to say that you believed that the insurance was valid.
Your father was told by you that the insurance was valid - if you provide a statement that says you told him that the insurance was valid.
The driver at the time is obligated to ensure they are covered, not take someone else's word for it. If they take someone else's word for it, even the policyholder, then the driver carries the can if they aren't covered. Is it not a defense to say that you believed that the insurance was valid.
Your father was told by you that the insurance was valid - if you provide a statement that says you told him that the insurance was valid.
It's not really much help now but if you semi-regularly drive each others cars why aren't you named drivers on the others policy instead of using the DOC cover?
Even under the "DOC" cover you're only ever covered for third party risks while a named driver has "full" cover.
So, onto the court/points. In short, he's bang to rights as it's black and white, either you have insurance or you don't.
The best you can do is claim special reasons to not endorse so he avoids the points aspect (although he'll still be found guilty of the offence) and probably just get a fine instead (which seeing as you told him he was insured you should probably pay!)
Even under the "DOC" cover you're only ever covered for third party risks while a named driver has "full" cover.
So, onto the court/points. In short, he's bang to rights as it's black and white, either you have insurance or you don't.
The best you can do is claim special reasons to not endorse so he avoids the points aspect (although he'll still be found guilty of the offence) and probably just get a fine instead (which seeing as you told him he was insured you should probably pay!)
Motoring12345 said:
Hi there.
I'm usually the one dealing with my fathers' car admin due to his age and lack of computer skills. We both have our own cars and we sometimes drive each other's cars. Both cars are insured fully comp.
Every insurance I've ever purchased has covered driving other cars 3rd party and I assumed this was still the case and I had told my father this. Sadly I was mistaken.
Last week he was driving my car and got stopped for not wearing a seatbelt, the officer checked his details and it came out that his insurance did not cover other vehicles. Consequently, he's been given a fixed penalty notice of £300 and 6 points for driving without insurance and £100 for the seatbelt.
I understand this is all on us, particularly me with not checking the details properly which makes me feel guilty. Is there any way of getting out of this? He lost his business due to covid and is getting a state pension now, so financially the penalty and the insurance premium will take a big hit on his finances.
Any help and advice is greatly appriciated.
Answer is simple:I'm usually the one dealing with my fathers' car admin due to his age and lack of computer skills. We both have our own cars and we sometimes drive each other's cars. Both cars are insured fully comp.
Every insurance I've ever purchased has covered driving other cars 3rd party and I assumed this was still the case and I had told my father this. Sadly I was mistaken.
Last week he was driving my car and got stopped for not wearing a seatbelt
, the officer checked his details and it came out that his insurance did not cover other vehicles. Consequently, he's been given a fixed penalty notice of £300 and 6 points for driving without insurance and £100 for the seatbelt.I understand this is all on us, particularly me with not checking the details properly which makes me feel guilty. Is there any way of getting out of this? He lost his business due to covid and is getting a state pension now, so financially the penalty and the insurance premium will take a big hit on his finances.
Any help and advice is greatly appriciated.
You pay the £350 fine, because of the flawed assumption.
He pays the £100 fine, because of the flawed faculties.
NugentS said:
Actually,
Is it not a defense to say that you believed that the insurance was valid.
Your father was told by you that the insurance was valid - if you provide a statement that says you told him that the insurance was valid.
Of course - you may have to be careful that the police then don't come after you?
No. It's not a defence because it's a black and white offence. Either you have insurance or you don't. What you believe doesn't affect if you're guilty or not. Even if the insurance company fIs it not a defense to say that you believed that the insurance was valid.
Your father was told by you that the insurance was valid - if you provide a statement that says you told him that the insurance was valid.
Of course - you may have to be careful that the police then don't come after you?
ked it up and for example insured the wrong registration or cancelled it without telling you. You're still guilty of no insurance (although in reality if it was their fk-up and you sort it with your insurance company the case is more likely than not going to be dropped rather than proceed to court). What it *can* affect is the sentence.
Fastdruid said:
The best you can do is claim special reasons to not endorse so he avoids the points aspect (although he'll still be found guilty of the offence) and probably just get a fine instead (which seeing as you told him he was insured you should probably pay!)
A "special reasons not to endorse" argument isn't going to fly when the argument isn't remotely special.People forget to insure their cars, assume that it gets auto-renewed without any input from themselves, had DOC on a fully comp policy before so assume it'll be on every one they ever get from then onwards without even bothering to check, etc all the time. Sloppy admin isn't "special reasons". Thinking you are insured is no defence at all, and certainly won't count for s
t in the event of a claim.The only exception for this, enshrined in the law, is driving a company vehicle as an employee - i.e. you have an expectation that it is insured but likely will not have seen the policy documents, etc to confirm. Technically that isn't "special reasons" either, though, it's a defence to the charge.
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