Highway Code Rules 103 & 112

[rfsteel]

Rule 103 said:

Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (download ‘Signals to other road users’), of your intended actions. You should always;

• give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
• use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
• cancel them after use
• make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
• use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority.

Rule 112 said:

The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your horn

• while stationary on the road
• when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am

except when another road user poses a danger.
Law CUR reg 99

Would a driver be in contravention of Rule 112 if they used the horn to notify a vehicle in front of them that it had not indicated for 2 left turns in quick succession ?

What are the penalties for failing Rules 103 and 112, and if the vehicle failing Rules 103 turned out to be an unmarked police vehicle, what justifications does an officer have for not indicating his intentions whilst driving on the public highway, if they then decided to pull you over for improper use of the horn ?

[Dave.]

Not unless you’re both proficient in Morse Code….

[rfsteel]

Dave. said:

Not unless you’re both proficient in Morse Code….

In Morse Code terms, it was a

 . _____

which according to the translator is E0

[Dave.]

What’s Morse Code for “Indicators, dhead!”?

[mac96]

Bit of that that I find odd is: "while stationary on the road"

I rarely use the horn, but waking up a snoozing/phone using, whatever driver who hasn't noticed lights turning green is probably the main use I make of it. A short toot normally gets a 'thank you' but apparently it is illegal.

Of course if I creep forward at 0.01 mph it would be legal, but that would be daft. Hey ho.

[NGee]

This has to be a wind up, surely?

How the hell is the driver in front going to know why the car behind has suddenly started hooting like a lunatic?
And what the fk has it got to do with the car behind anyway?

I think you were very lucky to be hooting at a police car. If you continue to drive like this you'll eventually end up with a baseball bat through the windscreen.

[unident]

His justification would be to explain to you why you’re being a throbber and to stop doing it. I’d agree that it would be a valid justification too.

[gazza285]

Why use your horn? Stop letting things that you have no control over wind you up.

[rfsteel]

NGee said:

This has to be a wind up, surely?

How the hell is the driver in front going to know why the car behind has suddenly started hooting like a lunatic?
And what the f#ck has it got to do with the car behind anyway?

I think you were very lucky to be hooting at a police car. If you continue to drive like this you'll eventually end up with a baseball bat through the windscreen.

Wish it was, not baseball bat, but two aggressive officers communicating through my open passenger window at the side of the road, accusing me of a bad attitude and threatening me with a ticket and £100 fine if he caught me again "beeping my horn"

The reason for the post and the thing that riled me is that the "advanced trained" officer driving the vehicle said that he need not indicate for vehicles following, only for vehicles approaching him, and as there were no other vehicles approaching the junctions he was turning left at, that justified his need not to indicate, and and I can't find reference to this rule in the highway code.

unident said:

His justification would be to explain to you why you’re being a throbber and to stop doing it. I’d agree that it would be a valid justification too.

As above, his justification made no sense to me.

The twist to this, is the same thing happened last September, in the same location when following a marked police car, though this one didn't take the second left, and didn't pull me over, but we ended up at a set of traffic lights side by side where words we exchanged.

At this brief interaction during a red light, the officer driving again stated the need not to indicate for vehicles following, and advised me to make a complaint if I found evidence to the contrary, which I did, and because the officers involved didn't correctly identify themselves, the complaint couldn't be investigated further.

This time, I have a recording of the officers identifying themselves, and potentially acting in an unprofessional manner, so interested to know if it worth making a complaint again, as I believe it to be the same officer involved in both incidents.

Edited by rfsteel on Saturday 12th March 13:37

Edited by rfsteel on Saturday 12th March 13:39

[NGee]

rfsteel said:

The twist to this, is the same thing happened last September, ........

This time, I have a recording of the officers identifying themselves, and potentially acting in an unprofessional manner, so interested to know if it worth making a complaint again, as I believe it to the the same officer involved in both incidents.

Now I know it's a wind up.

[unident]

rfsteel said:

As above, his justification made no sense to me.

The twist to this, is the same thing happened last September, in the same location when following a marked police car, though this one didn't take the second left, and didn't pull me over, but we ended up at a set of traffic lights side by side where words we exchanged.

At this brief interaction during a red light, the officer driving again stated the need not to indicate for vehicles following, and advised me to make a complaint if I found evidence to the contrary, which I did, and because the officers involved didn't correctly identify themselves, the complaint couldn't be investigated further.

This time, I have a recording of the officers identifying themselves, and potentially acting in an unprofessional manner, so interested to know if it worth making a complaint again, as I believe it to be the same officer involved in both incidents.

Edited by rfsteel on Saturday 12th March 13:37

Edited by rfsteel on Saturday 12th March 13:39

You’re acting like an idiot on the road. Others have already said this, but sooner or later you’re going to meet someone who has no identification, other than fists and an attitude worse than yours. If this is the second time it’s happened then I’d suggest taking a chill pill before you drive.

I’ll hazard a wild guess that you’re in London.

[GasEngineer]

mac96 said:

Bit of that that I find odd is: "while stationary on the road"

I rarely use the horn, but waking up a snoozing/phone using, whatever driver who hasn't noticed lights turning green is probably the main use I make of it. A short toot normally gets a 'thank you' but apparently it is illegal.

Of course if I creep forward at 0.01 mph it would be legal, but that would be daft. Hey ho.

"except when another road user poses a danger." You could perhaps argue this is the case...

[Gary C]

Err

dont get this

A car in front of you turned left without indicating so you sounded your horn ?

Is that what happened ?

Its not clear to me.

[rfsteel]

Gary C said:

Err

dont get this

A car in front of you turned left without indicating so you sounded your horn ?

Is that what happened ?

Its not clear to me.

Correct, and for the second left turn without indicating, which the driver u-turned and pulled me over for a chat and attitude test.

Is there any reason for not indicating when driving a vehicle on the public road, and if so what ?

Did I commit any offence by using my horn to make my presence aware to said driver who thinks signal isn't part of mirror signal manoeuvre

[NGee]

rfsteel said:

Did I commit any offence by using my horn to make my presence aware to said driver who thinks signal isn't part of mirror signal manoeuvre

YES YES Stop digging and making yourself look an even bigger tt than we all thought to start with.

I still think this must be a wind up but on the very slight off chance there really are people this daft, can I suggest you get some anger management therapy before you end up dead.

[Gary C]

rfsteel said:

Correct, and for the second left turn without indicating, which the driver u-turned and pulled me over for a chat and attitude test.

Is there any reason for not indicating when driving a vehicle on the public road, and if so what ?

Did I commit any offence by using my horn to make my presence aware to said driver who thinks signal isn't part of mirror signal manoeuvre

Hum

Odd thing to do then. Why should they indicate ? I don't think there is a requirement to do so just for a following car.

[Chozza]

No reason for them to indicate. No laws broken

No reason for you to use the horn !

[Nurburgsingh]

This isn’t rocket science - both rules apply to the use of signals and the horn to indicate YOUR actions/presence.

[TimmyMallett]

I think this is a case of "Just because you can doesn't mean you should "

[rfsteel]

unident said:

I’ll hazard a wild guess that you’re in London.

Not a Londoner, honking took place on LGW Airport Perimeter Road, outside the ruddy Police Station, not is a residential area, and not outside the hours of 0730 or 2300.

NGee said:

YES YES Stop digging and making yourself look an even bigger tt than we all thought to start with.

I still think this must be a wind up but on the very slight off chance there really are people this daft, can I suggest you get some anger management therapy before you end up dead.

LOL, no anger management issues here, just a dislike to people who apply rules and penalties to others when the think they don't apply to themselves

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The driver of the X5, think they may have been ARV as they were dressed in black combat suits. When pulled over the officers approached my open passengers window from the pavement, I was never asked to switch off my engine nor exit the vehicle during the interaction. Only thing I can think why I was being rude or failed the attitude test is that I accused the officers of lying after they explained they why they didn't need to indicate.

Chozza said:

No reason for them to indicate. No laws broken

No reason for you to use the horn !

If that's the case, why do vehicles have front, side and rear indicators installed if there is no requirement to use them ? Also why does the Highway Code also have a section on Arm signals ?