Police 30 mins 'free' over time for the Queen
Discussion
several of my pals have recently joined the Police and throughly enjoying it. they've told me about the '30 mins for the Queen' over time, mainly the first 30 mins of your overtime is free - hence for the Queen.
as a union man this doesn't seem right so I've done some digging.
it seems this '30 mins' was a caverat to a deal struck in 1994, see below:
"In 1994 the first 30 minutes of casual overtime worked on the first four occasions in any one week (defined as Monday to Sunday) was 'bought out'.
As a result of the 'buy-out' police officer's basic and pensionable pay increased by £270. With pay rises over the years that figure is now worth £445.
As a result of that 'buy out', an officer retiring today will get an extra £1,640 in their pension lump sum and an extra £212 per annum in their pension."
times have changed a lot since 1994, not just in policing but also work life balance and employment perception.
the Police Reform Act in 2002 should maybe have addressed this but failed to do so, the practice still continuing today. its funny but when you google the free over time the Police Federation actually has this on its website.......
Half Hour Reductions
Under the Police Reform Act the first half hour of CASUAL OVERTIME should be disregarded on the first four occasions in a weekly period. This now applies whether the overtime is submitted for payment or time off in lieu.
This topic has been regularly reviewed by the Federation nationally and it’s lawyers. It is not a breach of our Human rights under European or UK law, nor is it considered to be slavery
any text that has to explain you're not being exploited is a bit like Russia saying there's no war. its a big elephant in the room.
im unsure as to why it hasn't being tested in court. I under stand what the 1994 deal is saying, you're effectively paid the 2 hrs a week, 8 hrs a month, 12 days a year, in your salary which you get if you work them or not.
but police like all public sector have had below inflation wage rises for years. if they took this 'free' 2 hrs a week off the headline wage it would bring it down. then the Fed can fight for a transparent pay scale and rise?
me, id be contesting this straight away. a fair days pay for a fair days work. and despite what we think of the uk justice system local bobbies work hard
as a union man this doesn't seem right so I've done some digging.
it seems this '30 mins' was a caverat to a deal struck in 1994, see below:
"In 1994 the first 30 minutes of casual overtime worked on the first four occasions in any one week (defined as Monday to Sunday) was 'bought out'.
As a result of the 'buy-out' police officer's basic and pensionable pay increased by £270. With pay rises over the years that figure is now worth £445.
As a result of that 'buy out', an officer retiring today will get an extra £1,640 in their pension lump sum and an extra £212 per annum in their pension."
times have changed a lot since 1994, not just in policing but also work life balance and employment perception.
the Police Reform Act in 2002 should maybe have addressed this but failed to do so, the practice still continuing today. its funny but when you google the free over time the Police Federation actually has this on its website.......
Half Hour Reductions
Under the Police Reform Act the first half hour of CASUAL OVERTIME should be disregarded on the first four occasions in a weekly period. This now applies whether the overtime is submitted for payment or time off in lieu.
This topic has been regularly reviewed by the Federation nationally and it’s lawyers. It is not a breach of our Human rights under European or UK law, nor is it considered to be slavery
any text that has to explain you're not being exploited is a bit like Russia saying there's no war. its a big elephant in the room.
im unsure as to why it hasn't being tested in court. I under stand what the 1994 deal is saying, you're effectively paid the 2 hrs a week, 8 hrs a month, 12 days a year, in your salary which you get if you work them or not.
but police like all public sector have had below inflation wage rises for years. if they took this 'free' 2 hrs a week off the headline wage it would bring it down. then the Fed can fight for a transparent pay scale and rise?
me, id be contesting this straight away. a fair days pay for a fair days work. and despite what we think of the uk justice system local bobbies work hard
I've had similar as firms I've worked for, and also spent the majority of my working life salaried and it being paid overtime.
This week I'm getting up an hour earlier, and getting home an hour or two later every day, for which I get no more than my normal days work.
If it's in your contract, and you signed it....
This week I'm getting up an hour earlier, and getting home an hour or two later every day, for which I get no more than my normal days work.
If it's in your contract, and you signed it....
Swings and roundabouts.
Most shifts have an overlap, normally an hour, with the oncoming relief.
If you’ve handed over you car, prisoner etc to the next shift, and all admin is up to date it’s very rare that you’re still on duty right up to the hour, not unusual to be dismissed 20 minutes early most days.
Most shifts have an overlap, normally an hour, with the oncoming relief.
If you’ve handed over you car, prisoner etc to the next shift, and all admin is up to date it’s very rare that you’re still on duty right up to the hour, not unusual to be dismissed 20 minutes early most days.
Emily's dad said:
Swings and roundabouts.
Most shifts have an overlap, normally an hour, with the oncoming relief.
If you’ve handed over you car, prisoner etc to the next shift, and all admin is up to date it’s very rare that you’re still on duty right up to the hour, not unusual to be dismissed 20 minutes early most days.
Depends on your force but in my old force being dismissed 20 mins early rarely if ever happened, and in busy inner city areas it was a daily event to be sent to a job 20 - 30 mins before your rostered finish timeMost shifts have an overlap, normally an hour, with the oncoming relief.
If you’ve handed over you car, prisoner etc to the next shift, and all admin is up to date it’s very rare that you’re still on duty right up to the hour, not unusual to be dismissed 20 minutes early most days.
I had a part time summer job and the boss said that we were expected to give 45 minutes per week free to the company. And being young and naive, we complied. That was until an older guy joined and said it was unacceptable as we were all on minimum wage and doing the extra 45 mins for no pay pushed us below national minimum wage. He reported the boss to HMRC (or whatever they were called back then) and he was told to backpay us or face further investigation. I still remember the look on the boss's face when a delivery turned up at 5pm and we were all putting on out coats: "Lads, lads, c'mon...." 
I haven't been paid overtime in 10 years - private sector job - in spite of working countless evenings/weekends.
On the other hand, if I want to start work a bit late or take time off in the middle of the day to get a haircut or something, nobody's counting that either.
I'd much rather be in that situation than one where every minute is bought and paid for. You might get the 30 minutes paid, but you'd be watched like a hawk for productivity during the working day.... sod that.
On the other hand, if I want to start work a bit late or take time off in the middle of the day to get a haircut or something, nobody's counting that either.
I'd much rather be in that situation than one where every minute is bought and paid for. You might get the 30 minutes paid, but you'd be watched like a hawk for productivity during the working day.... sod that.
Emily's dad said:
If you’ve handed over you car, prisoner etc to the next shift, and all admin is up to date it’s very rare that you’re still on duty right up to the hour, not unusual to be dismissed 20 minutes early most days.
This.One of my mates and former colleague's left our sector (NHS Ambulance service) and joined the police and he says the same.
Even though that first half hour is unpaid, the amount of times he gets to leave 20 - 30 minutes early because he's handed over to the oncoming shift more then makes up for it.
Very different to our sector, where the second you go over your finish time you get paid overtime rate, but then we do finish late 99% of the time...
You can work from 07:00 - 19:00, but if a 999 call comes in at 18:59 and 50 seconds and you're the nearest/only ambulance or car available you will get that call, and you will finish 1.5 - 2 hours late, turning your 12 hour shift into a 14 hour shift...
Can't say it bothers me to be honest, it's swings and roundabouts and luckily we have a bit of give and take where I work. I'm normally sat at my desk doing admin 40 minutes before start time anyway so I'm good to go as soon as we're on duty. I need to get dressed, get various bits of kit and get a vehicle ready and I can't stand rushing that.
It's when you're 13 hours late off that's a bind, happened last week and it's brutal.
There are far more pressing matters that need tackling than the free 30 for the boss.
It's when you're 13 hours late off that's a bind, happened last week and it's brutal.
There are far more pressing matters that need tackling than the free 30 for the boss.
abzmike said:
I don’t know anyone - public or private sector - that works their exact hours.
Agreed.Unless you are literally paid by the hour then most salaried jobs have an assumption of some free overtime. I've had that as part of my contract in supervisor/management roles.
You might get paid if you have to do extra days (ie weekend work) but a few hours above and beyond your normal hours is rarely paid.
Maybe employers should have cameras up watching 24/7 and deduct pay from all the employees that
chat about football results, check facebook, surf the internet, reply to topics on pistonheads etc etc,
You can pretty much guarantee Employers get the worse deal with actual hours productively worked then employees,
who in the majority want to get paid the second they arrive at work.
1/2 hour seems reasonable to me
chat about football results, check facebook, surf the internet, reply to topics on pistonheads etc etc,
You can pretty much guarantee Employers get the worse deal with actual hours productively worked then employees,
who in the majority want to get paid the second they arrive at work.
1/2 hour seems reasonable to me
98elise said:
abzmike said:
I don’t know anyone - public or private sector - that works their exact hours.
Agreed.Unless you are literally paid by the hour then most salaried jobs have an assumption of some free overtime. I've had that as part of my contract in supervisor/management roles.
You might get paid if you have to do extra days (ie weekend work) but a few hours above and beyond your normal hours is rarely paid.
98elise said:
abzmike said:
I don’t know anyone - public or private sector - that works their exact hours.
Agreed.Unless you are literally paid by the hour then most salaried jobs have an assumption of some free overtime. I've had that as part of my contract in supervisor/management roles.
You might get paid if you have to do extra days (ie weekend work) but a few hours above and beyond your normal hours is rarely paid.
Its been a long time since i worked with anybody who maliciously met their contract and didn't self-manage a bit of flex and leeway into their hours. Those people were generally contractors or were happy to accept they'd be getting the bare minimum when it came to performance/pay review time because they weren't the people the business could rely on to step up when it needed them.
I'm lucky in that due to the role I get paid overtime unlike most of my colleagues, but unless I'm working more than 30 minutes I don't bother to claim it. Its just accepted that there are days I'll want to leave early or nip out and I'm trusted to manage that.
I dont see why the police should be any different, by word of the contract it seems they're already getting paid for this 30 minutes.
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