Copyright Infringement Email/Letter Received
Discussion
Write to law firm advising that you have only just become aware of their letter / email and will respond substantively to it as soon as you can and within the next two weeks. I would send this by post and email.
Then seek legal advice - the position is too complex for advice over an internet forum.
I suspect this is too niche for citizens advice - but I may be doing them a disservice.
If professional advice cannot be afforded (due to size / finances of the business) consider bar pro bono unit.
Then seek legal advice - the position is too complex for advice over an internet forum.
I suspect this is too niche for citizens advice - but I may be doing them a disservice.
If professional advice cannot be afforded (due to size / finances of the business) consider bar pro bono unit.
There's maybe 1000 people on ebay selling similar graphics.
How many have had the same? Might be worth an ask.
My guess is it's a phishing scheme.
I'd expect a genuine trademark holder to simply tell you to stop, rather than send you a bill
A lot of businesses get sent phishing invoices.
I get bills for cleaning my office which I never had.
It's a few years since I dealt with any lawyers, but they are not exactly leading the way into 'paperless', they'd probably default to recorded delivery?
How many have had the same? Might be worth an ask.
My guess is it's a phishing scheme.
I'd expect a genuine trademark holder to simply tell you to stop, rather than send you a bill
A lot of businesses get sent phishing invoices.
I get bills for cleaning my office which I never had.
It's a few years since I dealt with any lawyers, but they are not exactly leading the way into 'paperless', they'd probably default to recorded delivery?
I'd be inclined to ignore it, but at the same time make sure that there is no existing listings or anything else that is infringing this company's trademark.
Emails are not a credible way to be making these kinds of threats or demands in my opinion, since as has been noticed it can end up in junk or silently bounced or whatever and give the impression that your friend doesn't care about it.
I also don't think this entity can dictate that your friend be the one to do their diligence for them in producing records of XYZ. It intuitively seems to me that it's their responsibility to evidence a loss. Otherwise your friend could simply reply saying "never sold anything with the logo on as it happens"?
IANAL though and this does have the potential to get messy if they aren't just throwing their weight around.
As far as I can tell, from what's been said, there is nothing to be gained from responding to these emails (and particularly just giving £2500 away for "legal fees") vs waiting for an actual letter before action / court claim documents.
Emails are not a credible way to be making these kinds of threats or demands in my opinion, since as has been noticed it can end up in junk or silently bounced or whatever and give the impression that your friend doesn't care about it.
I also don't think this entity can dictate that your friend be the one to do their diligence for them in producing records of XYZ. It intuitively seems to me that it's their responsibility to evidence a loss. Otherwise your friend could simply reply saying "never sold anything with the logo on as it happens"?
IANAL though and this does have the potential to get messy if they aren't just throwing their weight around.
As far as I can tell, from what's been said, there is nothing to be gained from responding to these emails (and particularly just giving £2500 away for "legal fees") vs waiting for an actual letter before action / court claim documents.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 22 March 10:38
jev said:
Write to law firm advising that you have only just become aware of their letter / email and will respond substantively to it as soon as you can and within the next two weeks. I would send this by post and email.
Then seek legal advice - the position is too complex for advice over an internet forum.
I suspect this is too niche for citizens advice - but I may be doing them a disservice.
If professional advice cannot be afforded (due to size / finances of the business) consider bar pro bono unit.
Do not do any of this. It's a phishing scam.Then seek legal advice - the position is too complex for advice over an internet forum.
I suspect this is too niche for citizens advice - but I may be doing them a disservice.
If professional advice cannot be afforded (due to size / finances of the business) consider bar pro bono unit.
Except OP admits that his "friend" has been knowingly using said logos and has now removed them where he can which is tantamount to an admission of guilt.
So maybe not so much of a phishing exercise as posters are saying.
I would have thought it might be prudent to have a chat with somebody who really knows this topic from a legal perspective rather than just ignore.
As for phoning up on behalf of his friend, I would let his friend do that, if indeed it is a wise thing to do at this stage, which it maybe isn't before getting proper advice and guidance.
If his friend can show that he sold everything at a loss he might even get something back from Honda, or whoever, for having a worthless logo.
So maybe not so much of a phishing exercise as posters are saying.
I would have thought it might be prudent to have a chat with somebody who really knows this topic from a legal perspective rather than just ignore.
As for phoning up on behalf of his friend, I would let his friend do that, if indeed it is a wise thing to do at this stage, which it maybe isn't before getting proper advice and guidance.
If his friend can show that he sold everything at a loss he might even get something back from Honda, or whoever, for having a worthless logo.
The advice above is terrible. Ignoring it will not make it go away.
Please seek advice from a patent or trademark attorney, You can find one at https://www.cipa.org.uk/ or https://www.citma.org.uk/. Most members will give an initial 30 mins free advice. Th einstitutes also run free clinics, but I am not sure what the waiting time is at present.
Please seek advice from a patent or trademark attorney, You can find one at https://www.cipa.org.uk/ or https://www.citma.org.uk/. Most members will give an initial 30 mins free advice. Th einstitutes also run free clinics, but I am not sure what the waiting time is at present.
My partner linked to someone else's blog on her website and that had an image from CartoonStock that hadn't been licensed - the blog was visible on her website directly rather than a click-link. We had a right fright when a company called PicRights got in contact and were demanding about £1k for the unauthorized use.
We suspected a scam but got in contact with CartoonStock who confirmed they used a Company called Resolve UK who are associated with PicRights to manage their usages. It didn't come to £1k in the end but was certainly an expensive lesson about using images even when they came from someone else's use and that you assume are ok to use.
We suspected a scam but got in contact with CartoonStock who confirmed they used a Company called Resolve UK who are associated with PicRights to manage their usages. It didn't come to £1k in the end but was certainly an expensive lesson about using images even when they came from someone else's use and that you assume are ok to use.
Contact the company about who they use for copyright and check it's real.
The basics are what have they lost and what did you gain. Most legitimate companies would just what you to stop and not do it again. The cash thing is ether to get you to do something for its a bit of a scam?
Main things is to find out if its real or not then take actions as below.
The basics are what have they lost and what did you gain. Most legitimate companies would just what you to stop and not do it again. The cash thing is ether to get you to do something for its a bit of a scam?
Main things is to find out if its real or not then take actions as below.
I would
1. take steps to determine if on the face of it it is genuine.
2. Contact your insurers. You will only be covered by them if you do exactly what they tell you to do / say
3. take steps to limit the issue ( which seems to have been done).
As to a rely by guided by the insurers. They are the ones who are going to end up paying for defending you if it comes to that.
We had a claim once for an image put on a web site that was not licenced by an ex employee. We wrote back, remove the image, gave details of the persons employment and when it ended and that was the end of it.
We also had a spurious legal claim from a customer. The insurer paid for the legals and also paid to settle as this was considered cheaper than continuing.
1. take steps to determine if on the face of it it is genuine.
2. Contact your insurers. You will only be covered by them if you do exactly what they tell you to do / say
3. take steps to limit the issue ( which seems to have been done).
As to a rely by guided by the insurers. They are the ones who are going to end up paying for defending you if it comes to that.
We had a claim once for an image put on a web site that was not licenced by an ex employee. We wrote back, remove the image, gave details of the persons employment and when it ended and that was the end of it.
We also had a spurious legal claim from a customer. The insurer paid for the legals and also paid to settle as this was considered cheaper than continuing.
No idea if the email is genuine or not, but if it is don't let the OP's friend pick your lottery numbers, he must be the most unluckiest person on the planet!
Just had a quick look on Ebay and there are thousands and thousands of graphic decals for sale using the manufacturers names and/or logos.
Are they all illegal? Who knows?
Just had a quick look on Ebay and there are thousands and thousands of graphic decals for sale using the manufacturers names and/or logos.
Are they all illegal? Who knows?
For context:
Kingdom35 said:
Hi All
Looking for some advice here, a friend runs a small side business selling car graphics and custom designs. Hes looking for some help with a situation that has arise and isnt sure if its genuine or not (seems a bit off to me). So i thought id ask the good people of PH (wide net of professions) their thoughts
He has stumbled across an email that has been sent to him back at the beginning of Feb, hes only stumbled upon it as a follow up email arrived yesterday and so im assuming kicks it out of going to Junk again and into the inbox.
The initial email had a strict deadline for a response and stepped actions to take place within 2 weeks which the deadline date of 18th Feb has now elapsed with no response obtained. So over a month ago. The original has a few CC'd people in from said company that are all trade mark specialists but the letter has no specific signature from any of them just a company scanned generic one. It does have a reference number though.
Anyway they have followed this up yesterday with another asking for a response within 7 days and the previous actions to be carried out.
The attached letter in the email with all the claimed breaches (its a well known Japanese Car Manufacturer) has his address on but he has not received any physical letter in the post nor a call from said Law firm based in The Home Counties.
My first thought is this seems a bit off, sending an email in the hope someone reads it then replies, the fact he never saw it until a follow up speaks volumes as to the success/ease of this letter being missed. Also the fact no follow up call or physical letter sent either seems lazy and surely not correct.
The devil in the detail is, hes used a few logo's in some ebay listing pictures and on a now defunct faceache page (which he no longer has an account/was admin) so cant delete the page (unless anyone knows how to)
The company are chasing for 8 years worth of sales x listing price in their claims (they have seen the accounts been open that long, assumed this listing and the pictures have also been "live" for this long)......the trouble is these are customised items and the pictures are just for demonstration so the key part is yes the pictures show the companies logo's but that doesnt mean that he has made them for the customers with those logo's on. But the letter is claiming the worse case ie all of the sold items will have had the logo on and is asking for calculations on profit and showing estimated costs to the company of around £3k which is not correct but at the same time he hasnt been making the logo on the items more Names/Nicknames/Slogans etc.
In the original email from Feb they also have a link with exhbit A-E....showing screenshots but this link has time elapsed so cannot be looked at. So again a bit sloppy from the Law firm.
So my point now is what to do about this, hes now taken down all offending listings with the logo's on.
-The steps asked are to sign and return a letter of undertaking
-Take all infringed logo's down from every platform - he has from ebay, cant from the fb page as it no longer is accessible, cant be searched either (so how they have found this who knows)
-Asked to provide how many items have been sold using the logo's - No idea if any, relies on messages left on ebay messenger etc
- Confirm margins that those items sold at and profit taken
- Destroy all materials/stock bearing any logo's on - He has none
- Agree to pay said Brand £2.5k to cover legal fees and damages which would be sought by Brand if they went to court and succeed.
So my questions are, what would you do in this situation?
I thought about asking him to ring Citizens Advice and seeing if this is a common practice/hoax
I thought about calling the company and asking if this is common practice on his behalf
Is it a case that the law firm havent read the listing titles and description showing its a customised item and all indications arent that they can have a logo etc and more a lettering/name on the product?
Anyone have experience in this situation? If they called the company do you feel that they could discuss that they have taken the items off the platforms and wont do it again is suffice?
Looking for some advice here, a friend runs a small side business selling car graphics and custom designs. Hes looking for some help with a situation that has arise and isnt sure if its genuine or not (seems a bit off to me). So i thought id ask the good people of PH (wide net of professions) their thoughts
He has stumbled across an email that has been sent to him back at the beginning of Feb, hes only stumbled upon it as a follow up email arrived yesterday and so im assuming kicks it out of going to Junk again and into the inbox.
The initial email had a strict deadline for a response and stepped actions to take place within 2 weeks which the deadline date of 18th Feb has now elapsed with no response obtained. So over a month ago. The original has a few CC'd people in from said company that are all trade mark specialists but the letter has no specific signature from any of them just a company scanned generic one. It does have a reference number though.
Anyway they have followed this up yesterday with another asking for a response within 7 days and the previous actions to be carried out.
The attached letter in the email with all the claimed breaches (its a well known Japanese Car Manufacturer) has his address on but he has not received any physical letter in the post nor a call from said Law firm based in The Home Counties.
My first thought is this seems a bit off, sending an email in the hope someone reads it then replies, the fact he never saw it until a follow up speaks volumes as to the success/ease of this letter being missed. Also the fact no follow up call or physical letter sent either seems lazy and surely not correct.
The devil in the detail is, hes used a few logo's in some ebay listing pictures and on a now defunct faceache page (which he no longer has an account/was admin) so cant delete the page (unless anyone knows how to)
The company are chasing for 8 years worth of sales x listing price in their claims (they have seen the accounts been open that long, assumed this listing and the pictures have also been "live" for this long)......the trouble is these are customised items and the pictures are just for demonstration so the key part is yes the pictures show the companies logo's but that doesnt mean that he has made them for the customers with those logo's on. But the letter is claiming the worse case ie all of the sold items will have had the logo on and is asking for calculations on profit and showing estimated costs to the company of around £3k which is not correct but at the same time he hasnt been making the logo on the items more Names/Nicknames/Slogans etc.
In the original email from Feb they also have a link with exhbit A-E....showing screenshots but this link has time elapsed so cannot be looked at. So again a bit sloppy from the Law firm.
So my point now is what to do about this, hes now taken down all offending listings with the logo's on.
-The steps asked are to sign and return a letter of undertaking
-Take all infringed logo's down from every platform - he has from ebay, cant from the fb page as it no longer is accessible, cant be searched either (so how they have found this who knows)
-Asked to provide how many items have been sold using the logo's - No idea if any, relies on messages left on ebay messenger etc
- Confirm margins that those items sold at and profit taken
- Destroy all materials/stock bearing any logo's on - He has none
- Agree to pay said Brand £2.5k to cover legal fees and damages which would be sought by Brand if they went to court and succeed.
So my questions are, what would you do in this situation?
I thought about asking him to ring Citizens Advice and seeing if this is a common practice/hoax
I thought about calling the company and asking if this is common practice on his behalf
Is it a case that the law firm havent read the listing titles and description showing its a customised item and all indications arent that they can have a logo etc and more a lettering/name on the product?
Anyone have experience in this situation? If they called the company do you feel that they could discuss that they have taken the items off the platforms and wont do it again is suffice?
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