HM Courts - SVS Refund

[Phil Dicky]

Back in Sept 2021 I got caught speeding, 3 pts £100 fine, all paid points on my licence etc.
Friday I got a refund and have checked my online record and the points have gone.
A bit of googling suggests that this is because I didn't send my licence off, which to be honest i wasn't aware I had to as the old paper base part no longer exists and is online only.
Anyone had this and is there a simple way to resolve it without spending 4 hours on hold to the HM Courts?

[kiethton]

I'll wait for a more learned poster to correct me but my first question would be:

What is the date of offence?
What was the date the fine was refunded?

Last one is more difficult but have court papers been served within 6m of the offence date?

Depending on the specifics of the above you may have gotten away with it.....

[Phil Dicky]

kiethton said:

I'll wait for a more learned poster to correct me but my first question would be:

What is the date of offence?
What was the date the fine was refunded?

Last one is more difficult but have court papers been served within 6m of the offence date?

Depending on the specifics of the above you may have gotten away with it.....

I paid the fine on the 14th September 2021, which suggest the offence would be end of August first week September and the fine refunded the 9th April. So am I outside the 6 months as nothing has arrived as of yet?

[agtlaw]

Phil Dicky said:

Back in Sept 2021 I got caught speeding, 3 pts £100 fine, all paid points on my licence etc.
Friday I got a refund and have checked my online record and the points have gone.
A bit of googling suggests that this is because I didn't send my licence off, which to be honest i wasn't aware I had to as the old paper base part no longer exists and is online only.
Anyone had this and is there a simple way to resolve it without spending 4 hours on hold to the HM Courts?

You were given clear instructions to send your licence to the appropriate authority. Putting that fact aside, do nothing. Do not waste your time getting into a pointless argument with someone about whether or not you were told to send your licence off. You were. You just didn't follow the instructions.

Wait for an SJPN. Then deal with it.

[Phil Dicky]

agtlaw said:

Phil Dicky said:

Back in Sept 2021 I got caught speeding, 3 pts £100 fine, all paid points on my licence etc.
Friday I got a refund and have checked my online record and the points have gone.
A bit of googling suggests that this is because I didn't send my licence off, which to be honest i wasn't aware I had to as the old paper base part no longer exists and is online only.
Anyone had this and is there a simple way to resolve it without spending 4 hours on hold to the HM Courts?

You were given clear instructions to send your licence to the appropriate authority. Putting that fact aside, do nothing. Do not waste your time getting into a pointless argument with someone about whether or not you were told to send your licence off. You were. You just didn't follow the instructions.

Wait for an SJPN. Then deal with it.

I appreciate your input as we all always do Agtlaw..couple of very quick questions if you don't mind.

I assume the summons is issued after the refund?
Would I fall outside of the 6 months on the basis of the dates above?

[agtlaw]

If the offence is September 2021 then the last day to institute proceedings was approximately 10 days ago.

You should contact the police prosecutor by email. Quote the URN or reference number. Ask what happened.

[Phil Dicky]

agtlaw said:

If the offence is September 2021 then the last day to institute proceedings was approximately 10 days ago.

You should contact the police prosecutor by email. Quote the URN or reference number. Ask what happened.

Thanks again for your input, much appreciated.

[SlackBladder]

Had this same thing yesterday, but here's the twist.

Offence in Oct or Nov 2021

NIP received and sent back roughly Jan 2022

Early Feb 2022 receive the SAC or pay up and collect 3 points option.

I was travelling to the Philippines within a few days so took the paperwork with me and paid online about a week later.

Sept 2022 I get a £100 refund. Check online my license status, no points.

I am still in the Philippines and no longer have a UK address.

[Jeremy-75qq8]

So you get a letter , I assume fill in your licence details and pay.

Then you are supposed to send in your licence ? Does anyone know why given the licence does not have the points on it ?

Then if you don’t they reverse the payment and take you to court ?

I can’t see what this process achieves

[BertBert]

SlackBladder said:

.

I am still in the Philippines and no longer have a UK address.

Bit excessive for a speeding ticket?

[OverSteery]

BertBert said:

SlackBladder said:

.

I am still in the Philippines and no longer have a UK address.

Bit excessive for a speeding ticket?

But like all master criminals - he has finally made a single but crucial mistake.

By posting here, surely it won't be long before he is tracked down?

Better "go dark" now - don't use a credit card and change address every 24 hours - good luck with your life on the run.

[Wackywoo105]

Could this not be a case where they have found a problem or someone has challenged the validity of a ticket, so they have had to cancel a batch?

[Tankrizzo]

Jeremy-75qq8 said:

So you get a letter , I assume fill in your licence details and pay.

Then you are supposed to send in your licence ? Does anyone know why given the licence does not have the points on it ?

Then if you don’t they reverse the payment and take you to court ?

I can’t see what this process achieves

It doesn't achieve anything at all, especially since all driving licence records are computerised. I suspect it's a hangover from when points were physically written on your paper counterpart and nobody has ever changed the process.

Presumably somebody receives the licence, looks at it and says "yes that's a licence" then mails it back.

[Hol]

OverSteery said:

BertBert said:

SlackBladder said:

.

I am still in the Philippines and no longer have a UK address.

Bit excessive for a speeding ticket?

But like all master criminals - he has finally made a single but crucial mistake.

By posting here, surely it won't be long before he is tracked down?

Better "go dark" now - don't use a credit card and change address every 24 hours - good luck with your life on the run.

I now have a mental picture of a Rowan Atkinson-esque character typing out his responses from a hollowed out volcano.

[J2daG1990]

Could it have possibly been that they figured out a speed camera or speed tracking device was ineffective/calibrated incorrectly/etc. and so have refunded and given the points back based on this fact?

I've read this before where one person proves it in court and then others who were given points by the same device get them back. Might be rubbish though...

[agtlaw]

J2daG1990 said:

Could it have possibly been that they figured out a speed camera or speed tracking device was ineffective/calibrated incorrectly/etc. and so have refunded and given the points back based on this fact?

I've read this before where one person proves it in court and then others who were given points by the same device get them back. Might be rubbish though...

The refund was made because the driving licence was not sent in. It's a very common situation. Unfortunately, people don't read the instructions.

In that situation, a prosecution would usually follow via the Single Justice Procedure. Sometimes they miss the deadline to prosecute, so NFA.

[anonymous-user]

agtlaw said:

The refund was made because the driving licence was not sent in. It's a very common situation. Unfortunately, people don't read the instructions.

In that situation, a prosecution would usually follow via the Single Justice Procedure. Sometimes they miss the deadline to prosecute, so NFA.

So with that in mind, and with the massive backlogs in all departments of the police and legal system currently, if you get points it's essentially worth a shot at just not sending your licence in?! Is there any specific penalty for not doing so, assuming you do everything else correctly?

Seems a bit bonkers!

[The Count]

Interested to know what transpires...

[agtlaw]

Southerner said:

So with that in mind, and with the massive backlogs in all departments of the police and legal system currently, if you get points it's essentially worth a shot at just not sending your licence in?! Is there any specific penalty for not doing so, assuming you do everything else correctly?

Seems a bit bonkers!

It's not without risk.

Fixed penalty = £100

Prosecution = Potential £2500 fine (£1000 if non-motorway) + 40% victim surcharge + prosecution costs (usually £110 if early guilty plea).

[Short Grain]

agtlaw said:

It's not without risk.
Fixed penalty = £100
Prosecution = Potential £2500 fine (£1000 if non-motorway) + 40% victim surcharge + prosecution costs (usually £110 if early guilty plea).

agtlaw,

PH Should be paying you a retainer (if that's the right term)