Birmingham Clean Air Zone PCN
Discussion
Went to Birmingham a few weeks back in the car, I’m not local at all, but been to meet a colleague before so was aware of a CAZ in the town. You have 5 days or so to pay afterwards.
Drove in, had meeting and lunch, drove home. Next day, went to the Birmingham CAZ site to pay, all details self populate as I’ve been there before and I pay the charge for the day in question.
Get back from hols last week and there is a PCN for 120 quid. 60 if paid within 14 days of niticr, I had just 5 days left.
So, a bit confused I check the email and there is my receipt! All paid up, but hang on……it’s the wrong car! I paid for one VW that I’ve driven in before, but realise that I took the older VW in that day!
Bugger.
So I use appeal process and explain, have option to attach docs, so I show receipt for the other car along with log book photo to show it’s mine. Also receipt from that car for a previous visit and explain website defaulted to the reg and I didn’t notice, ie I’ve paid, on time, correct amount and honest mistake.
Hit the submit and it comes up saying appeal lodged but can take 4 weeks to get result. Check email, no acknowledgment of the appeal, and now site showing it was in had timed out,,,,hmmm, so i do it all again, just in case and take screenshot of the appeal having gone in.
But now, reading up this evening a bit bored, I see that the appeal does not ‘stop the clock’ so to speak on the PCN, so if they reject it, which I am sure they will. I have to pay 120 quid. Oh and the window to claim a refund of the charge I paid for the wrong car will have closed by then.
My mistake, but seems rather onerous to allow an appeals process, drag it out to what many would say is a protracted period, and then force people to pay the whole fine not reduced one.
Oh and this is assuming they will process the appeal in some way, seems odd to get no email confirming it.
Be careful those visiting the grim town of Brum!
Drove in, had meeting and lunch, drove home. Next day, went to the Birmingham CAZ site to pay, all details self populate as I’ve been there before and I pay the charge for the day in question.
Get back from hols last week and there is a PCN for 120 quid. 60 if paid within 14 days of niticr, I had just 5 days left.
So, a bit confused I check the email and there is my receipt! All paid up, but hang on……it’s the wrong car! I paid for one VW that I’ve driven in before, but realise that I took the older VW in that day!
Bugger.
So I use appeal process and explain, have option to attach docs, so I show receipt for the other car along with log book photo to show it’s mine. Also receipt from that car for a previous visit and explain website defaulted to the reg and I didn’t notice, ie I’ve paid, on time, correct amount and honest mistake.
Hit the submit and it comes up saying appeal lodged but can take 4 weeks to get result. Check email, no acknowledgment of the appeal, and now site showing it was in had timed out,,,,hmmm, so i do it all again, just in case and take screenshot of the appeal having gone in.
But now, reading up this evening a bit bored, I see that the appeal does not ‘stop the clock’ so to speak on the PCN, so if they reject it, which I am sure they will. I have to pay 120 quid. Oh and the window to claim a refund of the charge I paid for the wrong car will have closed by then.
My mistake, but seems rather onerous to allow an appeals process, drag it out to what many would say is a protracted period, and then force people to pay the whole fine not reduced one.
Oh and this is assuming they will process the appeal in some way, seems odd to get no email confirming it.
Be careful those visiting the grim town of Brum!
In the past I've gone over the early payment deadline for a parking charge due to appealing the charge. Upon inevitably losing the appeal, and susequently owing £100, I just sent £60 and never heard from them again.
I also had a similar case where I paid the London congestion charge a day late and got a penalty notice. i appealed that, and my online apppeal was rejected, so I opted for the next stage, which was a tribunal appeal. I was sent a date and was told that I didn't need to attend in person but, when I said I would, I got a letter saying they'd lost the paperwork and so were waiving the penalty. So, might be worth pursuing it as far as you can take it, to see if they'll back down once they know you won't let it go. If you can be bothered, that is.
I also had a similar case where I paid the London congestion charge a day late and got a penalty notice. i appealed that, and my online apppeal was rejected, so I opted for the next stage, which was a tribunal appeal. I was sent a date and was told that I didn't need to attend in person but, when I said I would, I got a letter saying they'd lost the paperwork and so were waiving the penalty. So, might be worth pursuing it as far as you can take it, to see if they'll back down once they know you won't let it go. If you can be bothered, that is.
Ian Geary said:
CoolHands said:
Sneaky workshy 
s
Maybe, but if they'd taken time to check the car details before paying, they would have avoided this problem.s It's a transgression tax to change behaviour. It's not being done to make friends.
Also, at this point, they won’t refund the charge for the car you have paid for.
Now, why can they send the fine out within 14 days, but not look at an appeal til 28 days ?
Hence the ‘workshy’ comment.
Ian Geary said:
Maybe, but if they'd taken time to check the car details before paying, they would have avoided this problem.
It's a transgression tax to change behaviour. It's not being done to make friends.
The problem they will face is that the behaviour change they get is “not going to Birmingham” rather than taking the train. It is very clearly happening to London in my local area - all of the people who spent a sIt's a transgression tax to change behaviour. It's not being done to make friends.
t tonne of money shopping in London just don’t bother any more. rxe said:
Ian Geary said:
Maybe, but if they'd taken time to check the car details before paying, they would have avoided this problem.
It's a transgression tax to change behaviour. It's not being done to make friends.
The problem they will face is that the behaviour change they get is “not going to Birmingham” rather than taking the train. It is very clearly happening to London in my local area - all of the people who spent a sIt's a transgression tax to change behaviour. It's not being done to make friends.
t tonne of money shopping in London just don’t bother any more. So i try to be "green" by going on when i have to be somewhere else or do something else that i need the car for. That's why i took my Caddy, I was collecting some alloy wheels from a powder coaters in Birmingham for my mate's business! He sends them there from Yorkshire, as it they are dirt cheap and i have to say, some of the best powder coating i have ever seen. Have no idea how they do it for 25 quid a wheel! Better than the 80 quid a pop place he used to use. Of course, if you get 120 quid fine for the piveledge, it does put the price up!
Ian Geary said:
Maybe, but if they'd taken time to check the car details before paying, they would have avoided this problem.
It's a transgression tax to change behaviour. It's not being done to make friends.
It's being done to make money. There's no way that going around the middle ring road causes lower emissions than going straight through the tunnels.It's a transgression tax to change behaviour. It's not being done to make friends.
Ian Geary said:
Maybe, but if they'd taken time to check the car details before paying, they would have avoided this problem.
It's a transgression tax to change behaviour. It's not being done to make friends.
Of course its a Gov website that has the cookies that autofills in the boxes, too. Wonder how many genuine on time payers it catches out? when they change a car? have a hire car, courtesy car, use the spouse's car etc It's a transgression tax to change behaviour. It's not being done to make friends.
poo at Paul's said:
I was collecting some alloy wheels from a powder coaters in Birmingham for my mate's business! He sends them there from Yorkshire, as it they are dirt cheap and i have to say, some of the best powder coating i have ever seen. Have no idea how they do it for 25 quid a wheel! Better than the 80 quid a pop place he used to use. Of course, if you get 120 quid fine for the piveledge, it does put the price up!
That's exactly the same reason I go to BirminghamShame, they're only just inside the CAZ
I don't take my nasty old polluting petrol and diesel cars to London or Birmingham any more.
So both cities have achieved what they wanted = less money for the businesses, museums, art galleries, restaurants, theatres and concert halls in those cities.
So go by train, you say?
Having to pay £120 for two return train tickets to spend an evening in London rather kills the enjoyment for us, plus taxis in London plus the risk of missing the last train home and having to spend another £200+ on a London hotel.
No, these days we take our caravan
and head for the countryside, driving carefully at 40 miles per hour for mile after mile through the Peak District or Yorkshire Dales. I don't bother with those extending mirror thingies - so much less stress without them 
So both cities have achieved what they wanted = less money for the businesses, museums, art galleries, restaurants, theatres and concert halls in those cities.
So go by train, you say?
Having to pay £120 for two return train tickets to spend an evening in London rather kills the enjoyment for us, plus taxis in London plus the risk of missing the last train home and having to spend another £200+ on a London hotel.
No, these days we take our caravan
and head for the countryside, driving carefully at 40 miles per hour for mile after mile through the Peak District or Yorkshire Dales. I don't bother with those extending mirror thingies - so much less stress without them QBee said:
So go by train, you say?
Having to pay £120 for two return train tickets to spend an evening in London rather kills the enjoyment for us, plus taxis in London plus the risk of missing the last train home and having to spend another £200+ on a London hotel.
I occasionally go to gigs in London, and stop at my brothers just outside London. Quite often have to miss the encore, as the last train out of london is before the end of the gig.Having to pay £120 for two return train tickets to spend an evening in London rather kills the enjoyment for us, plus taxis in London plus the risk of missing the last train home and having to spend another £200+ on a London hotel.
Regularly drive in CAZ in b’ham and always remember to pay, or so I though when I got a fine through the post for not paying on the 18th Jan. I was certain I paid day after, but the e-mail receipt goes into junk and had deleted itself by then, but my credit card statement showed that I had paid on 19th Jan! I appealed (no you don’t get any confirmation via e-mail that the appeal is lodged!) and heard back about 6 weeks later with appeal dismissed. They accepted I had paid on the 19th Jan, but not for the entering on the 18th Jan. so i probably put the wrong date in, but not certain.
Appealed to Traffic Penalty Tribunal on basis that BCC accepted I had made a payment and that I may or may not have made a mistake on putting wrong date in. BCC could have checked I had not entered on the day I had made payment. It was a long shot as ultimately it is my mistake to make sure I out in the correct info, but the appeal was upheld and fine dismissed!
Appealed to Traffic Penalty Tribunal on basis that BCC accepted I had made a payment and that I may or may not have made a mistake on putting wrong date in. BCC could have checked I had not entered on the day I had made payment. It was a long shot as ultimately it is my mistake to make sure I out in the correct info, but the appeal was upheld and fine dismissed!
Freshprince said:
Regularly drive in CAZ in b’ham and always remember to pay, or so I though when I got a fine through the post for not paying on the 18th Jan. I was certain I paid day after, but the e-mail receipt goes into junk and had deleted itself by then, but my credit card statement showed that I had paid on 19th Jan! I appealed (no you don’t get any confirmation via e-mail that the appeal is lodged!) and heard back about 6 weeks later with appeal dismissed. They accepted I had paid on the 19th Jan, but not for the entering on the 18th Jan. so i probably put the wrong date in, but not certain.
Appealed to Traffic Penalty Tribunal on basis that BCC accepted I had made a payment and that I may or may not have made a mistake on putting wrong date in. BCC could have checked I had not entered on the day I had made payment. It was a long shot as ultimately it is my mistake to make sure I out in the correct info, but the appeal was upheld and fine dismissed!
That’s encouraging! I deffo paid for the correct day, just the wrong flipping car! Appealed to Traffic Penalty Tribunal on basis that BCC accepted I had made a payment and that I may or may not have made a mistake on putting wrong date in. BCC could have checked I had not entered on the day I had made payment. It was a long shot as ultimately it is my mistake to make sure I out in the correct info, but the appeal was upheld and fine dismissed!
I will update in a couple of months when I hear back!
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