Small claims court - defendant abroad but UK accountant

[2Btoo]

I need some help with a simple question.

I have a client who is refusing to pay an invoice. The sum is well into four figures. The invoice is entirely valid but the (previously excellent) client is giving every reason under the sun not to pay. I am entirely confident that none of his excuses are valid.

Issuing against him in the Small Claims Court will be easy and I am comfortable with this. The issue is going to be getting him to pay (as always). He has a UK address and I understand him to be a UK resident, but I know that he also has a house abroad and spends most of his time there. He has today claimed that he is not resident in the UK and therefore won't pay.

I know that he has a UK accountant who still handles his financial affairs, including having access to his bank account - indeed the accountant has paid the bills on his behalf previously. If I take the matter to court and win (which I am entirely confident that I will do) then will the court be able to instruct his accountant to pay on his behalf?

Thanks.

[SydneyBridge]

No, only the Defendant

You would have to add the accountant as co defendant, but he/she does owe the money.

Which country? You may be able to enforce a UK court order in whatever country

[2Btoo]

SydneyBridge,

Thanks. Under what circumstances can I name the accountant as a co-defendant? To be entirely clear, the accountant doesn't owe me anything, only the client of mine.

The client owns property in the UK which he rents out and I know the letting agent who collects the rent and passes it on to the client. The debt incurred relates to management of these properties. Would an alternative be to ask the court to instruct the letting agent to pay the sum to me instead of to the client, or would this also not be possible?

The other country is the Czech Republic.

Thanks again for your help.

[Countdown]

2Btoo said:

Under what circumstances can I name the accountant as a co-defendant? To be entirely clear, the accountant doesn't owe me anything, only the client of mine.

I'm pretty sure there aren't ANY circumstances in which you could name the Accountant as Co-defendant. Why would the Accountant be liable for his client's actions?

[SydneyBridge]

As above, under the circumstances no way you could add anyone else

[2Btoo]

Thanks. That's as I'd probably expect.

So, back to the original question, given that the client has an accountant and assets in the UK then what could I do to enforce judgement? Can (or would) a court instruct either the accountant or the letting agent to pay the bill from the client's money which they hold? Could I get enforcement cross-border to the Czech Republic? Could I put a charge against any of the properties he owns? An attachment to earnings?* Or am I reduced to simply getting a CCJ against the client which will never be paid?

(* Yes, I have been googling this. Yes, these suggestions may well be gibberish!)

[darreni]

2Btoo said:

Or am I reduced to simply getting a CCJ against the client which will never be paid?

Yes

[Tyre Tread]

darreni said:

2Btoo said:

Or am I reduced to simply getting a CCJ against the client which will never be paid?

Yes

No. As with all legal matters... It depends...

There are various enforcement actions you can take but knowing where assets are is the key.

[Ham_and_Jam]

2Btoo said:

An attachment to earnings?* Or am I reduced to simply getting a CCJ against the client which will never be paid?

(* Yes, I have been googling this. Yes, these suggestions may well be gibberish!)

An attachment of earnings order can only be applied if you are employed by someone else.

I’ve done a few

[anonymous-user]

2Btoo said:

Thanks. That's as I'd probably expect.

So, back to the original question, given that the client has an accountant and assets in the UK then what could I do to enforce judgement? Can (or would) a court instruct either the accountant or the letting agent to pay the bill from the client's money which they hold? Could I get enforcement cross-border to the Czech Republic? Could I put a charge against any of the properties he owns? An attachment to earnings?* Or am I reduced to simply getting a CCJ against the client which will never be paid?

(* Yes, I have been googling this. Yes, these suggestions may well be gibberish!)

If you get judgment, you can enforce it by way of an order against an asset owned by the judgment debtor situated here, such as the equity in a property, a credit bank account, shares or other investments, or money held by someone who owes to the judgment debtor (the bank account is a special example of this general principle). All of those options will take time and money.

Your prior issue is validly commencing proceedings. Your defendant says he is not resident in the U.K. Either you have to prove to the court that’s incorrect, or more likely you will have to get through one of the gateways in CPR pt 6 (look at the practice direction) for the court to grant you permission to serve the defendant out of the jurisdiction. And if you get permission, you then have to arrange for service abroad, and satisfy the English court that you’ve validly served your defendant.

[sunbeam alpine]

Why is he refusing to pay?

As an overseas landlord myself I treasure my plumber/gas man, electrician, and general handyman, all of whom I rely on to keep my tenants happy.

I rent properties out through an agent, but my own tradesmen save me a fortune compared with the agent's preferred suppliers.

Sorry - I'm genuinely not looking to be critical, but are you sure that there's not a reason that he's not willing to pay?

[2Btoo]

Tyre Tread said:

No. As with all legal matters... It depends...

There are various enforcement actions you can take but knowing where assets are is the key.

Thanks. I know the addresses of various properties he owns in the UK as well as the details of his UK accountant and the fact that he has a UK bank account - although I don't know the number of that bank account.

I know the address which he uses as his UK residence and also understand that he receives bills there and has his British car registered there. He returns to the UK several times a year (one such a visit is to have his car MOT'd). This address is his (i.e it's not a rental property) and he keeps personal belongings there.

I also know the details of the letting agent who lets his properties and have an idea of the rent that he is being paid.

I don't think that there will be any difficulty in getting a court judgement against him. The enforcement is the bit that is unclear in my mind.

Thanks for your input.

[2Btoo]

Ham_and_Jam said:

An attachment of earnings order can only be applied if you are employed by someone else.

I’ve done a few

Thanks.

[2Btoo]

BlackWidow13 said:

If you get judgment, you can enforce it by way of an order against an asset owned by the judgment debtor situated here, such as the equity in a property, a credit bank account, shares or other investments, or money held by someone who owes to the judgment debtor (the bank account is a special example of this general principle). All of those options will take time and money.

Your prior issue is validly commencing proceedings. Your defendant says he is not resident in the U.K. Either you have to prove to the court that’s incorrect, or more likely you will have to get through one of the gateways in CPR pt 6 (look at the practice direction) for the court to grant you permission to serve the defendant out of the jurisdiction. And if you get permission, you then have to arrange for service abroad, and satisfy the English court that you’ve validly served your defendant.

Thanks BlackWidow. It sounds like you have professional experience in this area and I am particularly grateful for your input.

I presume that 'CPR Part 6 Practice Direction' is this:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/...

To be honest as a layman I don't know what it is to 'live in a country' if you spend time between two of them but I will read that link with interest and hopefully it will answer this question.

Again, thank you.

[2Btoo]

sunbeam alpine said:

Why is he refusing to pay?

As an overseas landlord myself I treasure my plumber/gas man, electrician, and general handyman, all of whom I rely on to keep my tenants happy.

I rent properties out through an agent, but my own tradesmen save me a fortune compared with the agent's preferred suppliers.

Sorry - I'm genuinely not looking to be critical, but are you sure that there's not a reason that he's not willing to pay?

This is the interesting question, and one which I would love to know the answer to.

I ran a property management company and this client was one of the larger ones. I managed (but didn't let) his properties for a number of years and had a very good relationship with the client; he came to my house and ate with me and my wife; he sent me bottles of bubbly (good bubbly too) at Christmas; I had the keys to his own flat and always arranged for there to be bread, milk, butter, flowers etc. there whenever he returned to the UK. He was always very complementary and grateful for what I thought was a job well done.

He's scatty and always very disorganised and would typically take several months to pay an invoice. This didn't bother me as there was a high level of trust and he always did pay after being prompted several times.

I stopped running that business and sent him a final invoice around 6 months after I finished working for him. He has sat on this invoice for five months and when I chased it he has unexpectedly become extremely difficult. He hasn't given a reason not to pay but is now claiming that the invoice was so late that I should be ashamed, that my company never did a good job for him, that the relationship was an unmitigated disaster and so on. His words to me on the 'phone yesterday were 'see you in court' and he has followed these up with a series of increasingly contradictory eMails and WhatsApp messages.

It's very odd and I can't help but think that there is something else going on, but I don't know what. The amount in question is enough for me to chase it hard, but not enough to put me on the streets. The biggest sadness is that I liked the guy (and still do quite like him) and it seems like a really bad way to end what was a very good relationship.

[anonymous-user]

2Btoo said:

Thanks BlackWidow. It sounds like you have professional experience in this area and I am particularly grateful for your input.

I presume that 'CPR Part 6 Practice Direction' is this:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/...

To be honest as a layman I don't know what it is to 'live in a country' if you spend time between two of them but I will read that link with interest and hopefully it will answer this question.

Again, thank you.

That’s the one. [Eta: the starting point is that you need to serve in England and Wales - to establish the court’s jurisdiction over the defendant, subject to some exceptions that aren’t likely to apply. That means] You’re in Part IV (r6.30 onwards) by the sound of it. This is the practice direction: https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/...

[Eta: how liquid are the prospective D’s assets that are in England and Wales? Cash and non property investments can be moved out of the jurisdiction very quickly. Land here can be mortgaged - which may or may not take a bit of time depending on how formal the charge is - and money then moved out. Your position sounds tricky but certainly possible to take forward. However there are some potential traps on the way; you’d be best off taking paid-for advice, but then the economics of the whole thing may start to creak]

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 17th May 11:11

[Pro Bono]

The rules for serving a Claim Form out of the jurisdiction are horribly complicated, and you can very easily get it wrong. You can't use the Moneyclaim website to issue the claim, and you'll have to issue it by post.

It also sounds as though you would need permission of the court to serve the Claim Form, which means making an application to the Court - this is a formal procedure, not just a matter of writing a letter, and it's not at all a simple task.

Is there any way that you can find out when he's returning to the UK? If so, you could issue the Claim Form and then just sit on it till he arrives back. When he does the Claim Form could then be served personally on him - i.e. it's physically delivered to him. You can either do this yourself or hire a process server to do it for you.

But bear in mnd the Claim Form is only valid for 4 months, i.e. it must be served on him within 4 months of the date it's issued.

If you get judgment, and the total debt exceeds £5k then the most effective enforcement method is the threat of bankruptcy.

[Boosted LS1]

Could you use substituted service on the accountant given that he represents the person? Ask the Court for permission given the 'debtors' evasiveness?

[Pinkie15]

Is the client a business ?

If a business, I'm sure there was a process if they owed you money (think it was something like £750+) where if they don't pay up that you could force winding up of the business 28 days later & you'd be at the top of the list of creditors. I think is possibly something via hmrc.

No idea if applicable here and I can't remember more detail than the above.

[anonymous-user]

2Btoo said:

sunbeam alpine said:

Why is he refusing to pay?

As an overseas landlord myself I treasure my plumber/gas man, electrician, and general handyman, all of whom I rely on to keep my tenants happy.

I rent properties out through an agent, but my own tradesmen save me a fortune compared with the agent's preferred suppliers.

Sorry - I'm genuinely not looking to be critical, but are you sure that there's not a reason that he's not willing to pay?

This is the interesting question, and one which I would love to know the answer to.

I ran a property management company and this client was one of the larger ones. I managed (but didn't let) his properties for a number of years and had a very good relationship with the client; he came to my house and ate with me and my wife; he sent me bottles of bubbly (good bubbly too) at Christmas; I had the keys to his own flat and always arranged for there to be bread, milk, butter, flowers etc. there whenever he returned to the UK. He was always very complementary and grateful for what I thought was a job well done.

He's scatty and always very disorganised and would typically take several months to pay an invoice. This didn't bother me as there was a high level of trust and he always did pay after being prompted several times.

I stopped running that business and sent him a final invoice around 6 months after I finished working for him. He has sat on this invoice for five months and when I chased it he has unexpectedly become extremely difficult. He hasn't given a reason not to pay but is now claiming that the invoice was so late that I should be ashamed, that my company never did a good job for him, that the relationship was an unmitigated disaster and so on. His words to me on the 'phone yesterday were 'see you in court' and he has followed these up with a series of increasingly contradictory eMails and WhatsApp messages.

It's very odd and I can't help but think that there is something else going on, but I don't know what. The amount in question is enough for me to chase it hard, but not enough to put me on the streets. The biggest sadness is that I liked the guy (and still do quite like him) and it seems like a really bad way to end what was a very good relationship.

step 1 - Recorded letter requesting payment within 14 days or you will take the matter to the small claims court.
step 2 - No response to step 1 - Small claims court.