Permissive path
Discussion
Today I learned that permissive paths exist, where the landowner lets people pass across their land, but the users have no right to use it as such, like they might with a public footpath or byeway etc.
Are there any precedents for permissive paths become legal right of way, maybe through continued use over a certain period?
I'm guessing that no authority will involve themselves in any use/restriction of permissive path as they're essentially an agreement between two private parties? One is a golf course, if it helps with context.
Are there any precedents for permissive paths become legal right of way, maybe through continued use over a certain period?
I'm guessing that no authority will involve themselves in any use/restriction of permissive path as they're essentially an agreement between two private parties? One is a golf course, if it helps with context.
Unless the landowner has completely forgotten about the path probably not going to be able to get any legal right of way in England.
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/newsroom/blog/rig...
https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/environment/countrysid...
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/newsroom/blog/rig...
https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/environment/countrysid...
Jeez, someone has been considerate enough to allow the general public access to a permissive path and rather than being appreciative you want to find a way of making it permanent and causing loads of grief to the landowner.
What is it, petty jealousy, just trying to cause grief for someone or being self-entitled?
What is it, petty jealousy, just trying to cause grief for someone or being self-entitled?
gottans said:
Jeez, someone has been considerate enough to allow the general public access to a permissive path and rather than being appreciative you want to find a way of making it permanent and causing loads of grief to the landowner.
What is it, petty jealousy, just trying to cause grief for someone or being self-entitled?
It's something I read about on the internet. I don't even know where it is.What is it, petty jealousy, just trying to cause grief for someone or being self-entitled?
I hope you enjoyed that.
The only time I've seen them have been where a public footpath runs through a farmyard and the permissive path is routed round it, thus making it far less likely for walkers to be squashed by tractors. AIUI, after a period of time, it's normal to transfer the public right of way from the original route to the new one.
Electro1980 said:
Yes. It’s the same as any other right of way. After 20 years use with no attempt to assert the rights of the owner and it can be converted to a right of way. Realistically if you know it’s a permissive path then the chances are the owner does assert their rights.
It’s not really. To acquire a prescriptive right you have to use it without force, secrecy or permission for the requisite period. If you cross someone’s land with their permission, therefore, no right of way acquired. So the reason behind making something a permissive path with become obvious.ScotHill said:
I hope you enjoyed that.
I have the feeling that's a lie.There was a permissive path through an alley near a police station I worked from. I was told - way before my time - that the businesses either side were frequently targeted for burglaries when the route was closed every evening. By having the gates open except on one day a year, daytime footfall was increased, and police officers walked past frequently, notably of a night. Nowadays, of course, there are so few walking bobbies that I assume all advantages have disappeared.
Derek Smith said:
I have the feeling that's a lie.
There was a permissive path through an alley near a police station I worked from. I was told - way before my time - that the businesses either side were frequently targeted for burglaries when the route was closed every evening. By having the gates open except on one day a year, daytime footfall was increased, and police officers walked past frequently, notably of a night. Nowadays, of course, there are so few walking bobbies that I assume all advantages have disappeared.
Thanks to constant cuts in our police forces, you could leave out the word "walking" from that last sentence and still be correct. There was a permissive path through an alley near a police station I worked from. I was told - way before my time - that the businesses either side were frequently targeted for burglaries when the route was closed every evening. By having the gates open except on one day a year, daytime footfall was increased, and police officers walked past frequently, notably of a night. Nowadays, of course, there are so few walking bobbies that I assume all advantages have disappeared.
There's one round the perimeter of some woods near us. Signs at all entry points that state it's a permissive path, and if, in the owner's opinion, the pathway is 'abused' then they will close off access.
I presume the signage is their way to assert this and stop it becoming some sort of general right of way.
I presume the signage is their way to assert this and stop it becoming some sort of general right of way.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
But in this case the land owner does allow access but the OP appears to think (I guess) that isn't good enough and irrespective of land ownership and use thinks any control the land owner has of their land should be removed because they can.If there is ancient ROW on someones land then it should be respected by all including those who own it and those that use it.
And with regard to your comment about people walking over the garden of your semi, at what size does it become an issue?
ScotHill said:
gottans said:
Jeez, someone has been considerate enough to allow the general public access to a permissive path and rather than being appreciative you want to find a way of making it permanent and causing loads of grief to the landowner.
What is it, petty jealousy, just trying to cause grief for someone or being self-entitled?
It's something I read about on the internet. I don't even know where it is.What is it, petty jealousy, just trying to cause grief for someone or being self-entitled?
I hope you enjoyed that.
I never knew that Major Misunderstanding from Viz magazine posted on PH. In fact I'll probably now spend most of the afternoon looking up old Viz cartoons. There are a fair few permissive paths in places like the North York Moors and the Lakes - they're marked as orange dashed lines on OS maps (as opposed to the green of normal footpaths). As others have said, to gain a right of way by prescription the route must have been used for the requisite period of time (usually 20 years), nec vi, nec clam, nec precario - i.e. without force, without secrecy, and without permission. In the case of permissive paths the landowner is giving permission so it's difficult to see how a right of way can arise.
When I was in the army (yes, that's why you can sleep safe in your bed at night), once a year the various permissive paths and roads in the Aldershot/Farnborough were closed for a day. People had to ask permission to be allowed to use the road or path. Men on bikes used to respond with words that I didn't understand as they carried on cycling.
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