Kick-row PC won't face charges
Discussion
I saw this on the news last night and couldn't believe the outcome - not enought evidence WTF?
http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/news/s/168/168639_kickrow_pc_wont_face_charges.html
David Ottewell
The incident is caught on cameraA POLICEMAN shown on CCTV allegedly kicking a handcuffed man held on the ground will not face criminal charges.
A statement released by the Independent Police Complaints Commission confirmed that no criminal action was to be taken following the incident involving former paratrooper Delbo King, the man in handcuffs.
The statement said: "The IPCC has been informed by the Crown Prosecution Service - CPS - that there is insufficient evidence to bring any charges against three Greater Manchester Police officers who had been accused of assaulting Delbo King.
"Naseem Malik, IPCC commissioner for the north west, will now discuss with Greater Manchester Police what, if any, disciplinary action the officers should face."
A spokesman for the CPS said: "The incident was recorded on CCTV which was enhanced and considered frame by frame by officer safety experts. They concluded they could not say definitively that the actions of the officers were unreasonable and not in accordance with their training.
"In the light of this we have advised there is insufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction."
However, GMP has confirmed that one of the officers involved will remain suspended from duty and all could face internal disciplinary action.
Deputy Chief Constable Alan Green said today: "Following the CPS decision the IPCC now has responsibility for bringing this investigation to a conclusion. We will be sending them our recommendations regarding disciplinary action the officers should face and we will await their agreement.
"When the investigation began one officer was placed on restricted duties.
"He will remain in this role until we receive a decision from the IPCC regarding disciplinary action."
Delbo KingThe investigation began after the M.E.N. printed pictures which appeared to show Mr King, 33, being kicked after he was arrested for allegedly smashing a bus stop in Manchester city centre.
The M.E.N. can reveal the investigation concluded the officer used "reasonable self- defence".
The report backs the officer's claim that a controversial kick was delivered while Mr King had trapped his leg and was delivered in self-defence. An initial report was carried out by West Yorkshire Police.
The M.E.N. understands Mr King's legal team was unaware of the position last night. Mr King, from Gorton, would still be able to take legal action against GMP, but the report could have a major impact on his chances of success.
Pc Charles Crichlow, chairman of the Greater Manchester Black and Asian Police Association, warned that clearing the officer would raise "a lot of questions" over the investigation.
"It would not be well received," he said. "From what I saw on the video in terms of the fear [of King] and the apparently excessive physical force, I would be surprised if there was complete exoneration.
"It would leave a lot of questions to be asked about the process."
The incident took place in London Road in June 2003. But the footage was only revealed last February, when King pleaded guilty at Manchester magistrates' court to criminal damage, disorderly behaviour and resisting a police officer in the execution of his duty.
King was sprayed with CS gas but continued to struggle before being forced to the ground and kicked several times, allegedly suffering a broken tooth and bruised genitals. The video was later obtained by the M.E.N.
http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/news/s/168/168639_kickrow_pc_wont_face_charges.html
David Ottewell
The incident is caught on cameraA POLICEMAN shown on CCTV allegedly kicking a handcuffed man held on the ground will not face criminal charges.
A statement released by the Independent Police Complaints Commission confirmed that no criminal action was to be taken following the incident involving former paratrooper Delbo King, the man in handcuffs.
The statement said: "The IPCC has been informed by the Crown Prosecution Service - CPS - that there is insufficient evidence to bring any charges against three Greater Manchester Police officers who had been accused of assaulting Delbo King.
"Naseem Malik, IPCC commissioner for the north west, will now discuss with Greater Manchester Police what, if any, disciplinary action the officers should face."
A spokesman for the CPS said: "The incident was recorded on CCTV which was enhanced and considered frame by frame by officer safety experts. They concluded they could not say definitively that the actions of the officers were unreasonable and not in accordance with their training.
"In the light of this we have advised there is insufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction."
However, GMP has confirmed that one of the officers involved will remain suspended from duty and all could face internal disciplinary action.
Deputy Chief Constable Alan Green said today: "Following the CPS decision the IPCC now has responsibility for bringing this investigation to a conclusion. We will be sending them our recommendations regarding disciplinary action the officers should face and we will await their agreement.
"When the investigation began one officer was placed on restricted duties.
"He will remain in this role until we receive a decision from the IPCC regarding disciplinary action."
Delbo KingThe investigation began after the M.E.N. printed pictures which appeared to show Mr King, 33, being kicked after he was arrested for allegedly smashing a bus stop in Manchester city centre.
The M.E.N. can reveal the investigation concluded the officer used "reasonable self- defence".
The report backs the officer's claim that a controversial kick was delivered while Mr King had trapped his leg and was delivered in self-defence. An initial report was carried out by West Yorkshire Police.
The M.E.N. understands Mr King's legal team was unaware of the position last night. Mr King, from Gorton, would still be able to take legal action against GMP, but the report could have a major impact on his chances of success.
Pc Charles Crichlow, chairman of the Greater Manchester Black and Asian Police Association, warned that clearing the officer would raise "a lot of questions" over the investigation.
"It would not be well received," he said. "From what I saw on the video in terms of the fear [of King] and the apparently excessive physical force, I would be surprised if there was complete exoneration.
"It would leave a lot of questions to be asked about the process."
The incident took place in London Road in June 2003. But the footage was only revealed last February, when King pleaded guilty at Manchester magistrates' court to criminal damage, disorderly behaviour and resisting a police officer in the execution of his duty.
King was sprayed with CS gas but continued to struggle before being forced to the ground and kicked several times, allegedly suffering a broken tooth and bruised genitals. The video was later obtained by the M.E.N.
I would advise anyone to watch the video ; the BBC one is most to the point, but the MEN one shows how King was doing nothing but lumbering and being awkward.
Anyone who has had any restraint training will know at once it was a "revenge kicking".
I contrast this with the regular prosecutions of those who damage Police Officers in very minor ways. A local recent (successful) prosecution for two bruises on an elbow comes to mind.
The teachere prosecuted for months for allegedly pricking a 15 year old with a pin while removing a scarf will doubtless not be amused ; and this is the visible tip of a very large iceberg (wait for the Isle of Lewis whitewash for example).
The double standards are comical.
Anyone who has had any restraint training will know at once it was a "revenge kicking".
I contrast this with the regular prosecutions of those who damage Police Officers in very minor ways. A local recent (successful) prosecution for two bruises on an elbow comes to mind.
The teachere prosecuted for months for allegedly pricking a 15 year old with a pin while removing a scarf will doubtless not be amused ; and this is the visible tip of a very large iceberg (wait for the Isle of Lewis whitewash for example).
The double standards are comical.
I found a link to the video too
www.manchesteronline.co.uk/video/view_broadband/94.html
The copper puts the boot in at about 2mins 50 - not really Queensbury rules is it?
and he bangs his head on the van door at the end.
Half of me thinks all vandals should get this treatment
but the other half thinks what would happen to anyone else if they put the boot in underneath a CCTV camera.
>> Edited by cliffe_mafia on Tuesday 9th August 11:46
www.manchesteronline.co.uk/video/view_broadband/94.html
The copper puts the boot in at about 2mins 50 - not really Queensbury rules is it?
and he bangs his head on the van door at the end.
Half of me thinks all vandals should get this treatment
but the other half thinks what would happen to anyone else if they put the boot in underneath a CCTV camera. >> Edited by cliffe_mafia on Tuesday 9th August 11:46
There's an edited version of the same film on the BBC website, about 45s and shows the guts of it ; the spray in the face, the kicks, the banging of the head.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3506409.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3506409.stm
All I can add to this, as a person whose job entails dealing with Civil claims for compensation as lodged against various Constabularies throughout the Country, is dont be too quick to judge.
You will note from the tone of the newspapers report, that it was quite correctly stipulated that the CCTV footage "allegedly" showed an attack by the Officers. What was carefully edited was the behaviour of this individual before & after his arrest, when he attempted to assault the Officers (& for which he was thankfully prosecuted)
As for the contributor who made mention of succesful prosecutions against members of the public when they assault the Police, is there a problem with this ? Contrary to populaer belief, a Policemans job is not to act as a punch bag for drunken/drug abusing/louts & lowlifes to vent their spleens, but instead to enforce the Law, the Law lest you forget which is there to protect the Law abiding majority from these mindless individuals in the first instance. An attack on a single Police Officer is nothing more or less than an attack on Society as a whole.
Put it this way, if some idiot is prepared to attack a Police Officer & occasion an injury to that Officer, do you seriously beleive that said idiot would not give two thoughts about assaulting any innocent member of the public who may be unfortunate enough to come cross their path ?
This is not withstanding that from my own proffesional experience, that for everytime someone is prosecuted for such an offence, that many more wont even be proceeded with by the CPS.
As for the Black & Asian Police Officers Assoc, this relates to an earlier post I made specifically regarding this organisation & the actual reasoning behind their existance, which certainly at first sight seems extremely diversive & contrary to the principles of integration etc.
Whilst I was to a degree swayed by the arguments put forward by various BiB on this site (in that they represent Officers who experience difficulties in their personal life due to the conflicting ideas of their own ethnic communitioes) to me it merely appears to be that when ever the subject of an alleged attack upon a coloured individual comes to the attention of the media, that they merely pontificate endlessly & do nothing to diffuse the situation. As one other contributor put it, if this was an attack on a white man, do you think it would have attracted either the attention of the media, or indeed been worthy of comment in any event ? I think not.
You will note from the tone of the newspapers report, that it was quite correctly stipulated that the CCTV footage "allegedly" showed an attack by the Officers. What was carefully edited was the behaviour of this individual before & after his arrest, when he attempted to assault the Officers (& for which he was thankfully prosecuted)
As for the contributor who made mention of succesful prosecutions against members of the public when they assault the Police, is there a problem with this ? Contrary to populaer belief, a Policemans job is not to act as a punch bag for drunken/drug abusing/louts & lowlifes to vent their spleens, but instead to enforce the Law, the Law lest you forget which is there to protect the Law abiding majority from these mindless individuals in the first instance. An attack on a single Police Officer is nothing more or less than an attack on Society as a whole.
Put it this way, if some idiot is prepared to attack a Police Officer & occasion an injury to that Officer, do you seriously beleive that said idiot would not give two thoughts about assaulting any innocent member of the public who may be unfortunate enough to come cross their path ?
This is not withstanding that from my own proffesional experience, that for everytime someone is prosecuted for such an offence, that many more wont even be proceeded with by the CPS.
As for the Black & Asian Police Officers Assoc, this relates to an earlier post I made specifically regarding this organisation & the actual reasoning behind their existance, which certainly at first sight seems extremely diversive & contrary to the principles of integration etc.
Whilst I was to a degree swayed by the arguments put forward by various BiB on this site (in that they represent Officers who experience difficulties in their personal life due to the conflicting ideas of their own ethnic communitioes) to me it merely appears to be that when ever the subject of an alleged attack upon a coloured individual comes to the attention of the media, that they merely pontificate endlessly & do nothing to diffuse the situation. As one other contributor put it, if this was an attack on a white man, do you think it would have attracted either the attention of the media, or indeed been worthy of comment in any event ? I think not.
MILF said:
You will note from the tone of the newspapers report, that it was quite correctly stipulated that the CCTV footage "allegedly" showed an attack by the Officers. What was carefully edited was the behaviour of this individual before & after his arrest, when he attempted to assault the Officers (& for which he was thankfully prosecuted)
Actually the full version in the MEN shows about 5 minutes, with the kicking in the middle, and that apart from wandering about drunkenly at the start, nothing happens. He undoubtedly "resists arrest", and undoubtedly is immobilised at the point of the kicking.
If he "attempted to assault the Officers" and they "didn't assault him" I must have missed it. At the point of the kicking and for a fair amount either side King has not moved - he can't, he's got two big coppers sitting on him.
Also, I fail to see what behaviour before or after justifies him being repeatedly kicked in the head and balls, something which is quite deliberate as the copper stops when someone passes by.
MILF said:
As for the contributor who made mention of succesful prosecutions against members of the public when they assault the Police, is there a problem with this ?
Absolutely not. However, there should not be one law for the Police and one for the Public, which there undoubtedly is at present.
In my profession, it is blatantly clear that whenever there is the slightest hint of an alleged "assault" the Police will desperately try to get a prosecution under any grounds ; for example the woman who was persecuted for allegedly pricking a girl's neck when removing a headscarf, one of a huge list of "enthusiastic and desperate" prosecutions. I know someone who was questioned about "having a funny look on their face" for example.
I am absolutely *CERTAIN* that whatever had happened before, after or during a restraint acts of the type *clearly visible* on this video on our part would lead to prosecution and prison, quite rightly.
It's a revenge kicking, quite deliberate, and now such behaviour is supported by the "justice" system.
MILF said:
Contrary to populaer belief, a Policemans job is not to act as a punch bag for drunken/drug abusing/louts & lowlifes to vent their spleens, but instead to enforce the Law, the Law lest you forget which is there to protect the Law abiding majority from these mindless individuals in the first instance. An attack on a single Police Officer is nothing more or less than an attack on Society as a whole.
What a load of old cack.
And what does this have to do with kicking a restrained handcuffed man in the head and balls ?
Anyone in the public services will tell you the Police do not give a toss about assaults on anyone other than Police Officers.
Nurses for example are regularly assaulted, but getting the Police to even turn up is difficult, and prosecutions are almost non-existent.
MILF said:
Put it this way, if some idiot is prepared to attack a Police Officer & occasion an injury to that Officer, do you seriously beleive that said idiot would not give two thoughts about assaulting any innocent member of the public who may be unfortunate enough to come cross their path ?
No, but I can't really see the difference between a thug in the street and a thug in a uniform, except that the thug in uniform is allowed to get away with it.
Anyone with any restraint training knows what happened here.
MILF said:
This is not withstanding that from my own proffesional experience, that for everytime someone is prosecuted for such an offence, that many more wont even be proceeded with by the CPS.
As for the Black & Asian Police Officers Assoc, this relates to an earlier post I made specifically regarding this organisation & the actual reasoning behind their existance, which certainly at first sight seems extremely diversive & contrary to the principles of integration etc.
Whilst I was to a degree swayed by the arguments put forward by various BiB on this site (in that they represent Officers who experience difficulties in their personal life due to the conflicting ideas of their own ethnic communitioes) to me it merely appears to be that when ever the subject of an alleged attack upon a coloured individual comes to the attention of the media, that they merely pontificate endlessly & do nothing to diffuse the situation. As one other contributor put it, if this was an attack on a white man, do you think it would have attracted either the attention of the media, or indeed been worthy of comment in any event ? I think not.
It's the Police who keep saying there is no racial part of this incident. I don't think Delbo King has ever suggested that it was a racist attack, nor has anyone else.
One rather gets the impression that this makes it okay in the eyes of the Police.
Of course, anyone else would be charged with racially aggravated assault.
The Police "Service" focus is all wrong - a couple of the BiB have pointed out the idiocies of the disciplinary system.
Contrast the treatment of this thug, unfit to wear the uniform, with the treatment of three coppers, one of whom made a racist joke, and the other two for simply not reporting it.
This cretinous approach is why they keep saying "it wasn't racist" ; something no-one has ever actually suggested as far as I am aware.
Contrast the treatment of this thug, unfit to wear the uniform, with the treatment of three coppers, one of whom made a racist joke, and the other two for simply not reporting it.
This cretinous approach is why they keep saying "it wasn't racist" ; something no-one has ever actually suggested as far as I am aware.
Couple of points I feel you have wrong there autismuk.
Firstly we are assaulted a lot more often than you would believe, ranging from being spat at by a passing bus, or set on by a gang of youths resulting in hospitalisation. Both have happened to me, no prosecutions followed as the cps had 'no evidence'. And no, I do not expect to be treated as a punchbag as part of my job, and most certainly will respond very very proactively if someone assaults me. I didn't join the job for the public to see a police officer being assaulted in public, nor did I join to assault members of the public. But certainly will not be walked on.
I have personally arrested offenders that have assaulted nurses and other public sector workers.
This has ranged from pinching a nurses bottom, to a nurse being headbutted in a and e.
I have also arrested offenders that have thrown rocks at firemen. Frankly saying that we have no interest in arresting people that have assaulted nurses is wrong.
In relation to this incident, it doesn't look right, I agree. However, at the start of the film it looks like a PC receives a bite from the offender, and yes, no doubt he was resisting arrest, but what happened before the film was started. I am all for equal treatment, but all too often it's easy to forget the daily abuse both physical and mental that front line officers face, most things someone that had never been faced with a braying mob at 02.30 in the morning intent on breaking bones would never be able to comprehend.
No, I am not making excuses for this incident, if it is as the media covered it. But wild accusations about the police not being interested in nurses being assaulted gets right up my nose as I know personally it is wrong.
Firstly we are assaulted a lot more often than you would believe, ranging from being spat at by a passing bus, or set on by a gang of youths resulting in hospitalisation. Both have happened to me, no prosecutions followed as the cps had 'no evidence'. And no, I do not expect to be treated as a punchbag as part of my job, and most certainly will respond very very proactively if someone assaults me. I didn't join the job for the public to see a police officer being assaulted in public, nor did I join to assault members of the public. But certainly will not be walked on.
I have personally arrested offenders that have assaulted nurses and other public sector workers.
This has ranged from pinching a nurses bottom, to a nurse being headbutted in a and e.
I have also arrested offenders that have thrown rocks at firemen. Frankly saying that we have no interest in arresting people that have assaulted nurses is wrong.
In relation to this incident, it doesn't look right, I agree. However, at the start of the film it looks like a PC receives a bite from the offender, and yes, no doubt he was resisting arrest, but what happened before the film was started. I am all for equal treatment, but all too often it's easy to forget the daily abuse both physical and mental that front line officers face, most things someone that had never been faced with a braying mob at 02.30 in the morning intent on breaking bones would never be able to comprehend.
No, I am not making excuses for this incident, if it is as the media covered it. But wild accusations about the police not being interested in nurses being assaulted gets right up my nose as I know personally it is wrong.
silverback mike said:
Couple of points I feel you have wrong there autismuk.
Firstly we are assaulted a lot more often than you would believe, ranging from being spat at by a passing bus, or set on by a gang of youths resulting in hospitalisation. Both have happened to me, no prosecutions followed as the cps had 'no evidence'. And no, I do not expect to be treated as a punchbag as part of my job, and most certainly will respond very very proactively if someone assaults me. I didn't join the job for the public to see a police officer being assaulted in public, nor did I join to assault members of the public. But certainly will not be walked on.
Well, I do a job which involves rather a lot of assaults as well, except in my line of work there are never any prosecutions (age reasons). This isn't a complaint ; if I choose to work in such a job it is to be expected.
However, if I were to respond even in anything *remotely* like such a fashion I would be put in prison - on less evidence than this, or indeed, on none at all other than someone's say-so with an obvious motive for lying ; and the two "holders" would be prosecuted as well !
*Irrespective* of what happened before.
The Police would say (and quite correctly IMO) that at the point of the assault there was no risk, and that even if there were risk the method of dealing with it was criminally inappropriate.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want people who assault Policemen or anyone else let off.
I just want the law to be applied consistently. Which it isn't , blatantly so.
Try doing your job as a copper if any allegation at all results in instant suspension irrespective of anything at all and then ferreting round everyone you've ever arrested in the last 20 years looking for "corroboration" - something you're likely to get as most of them are criminals.
That's how the Police treat us.
Silverback Mike said:
I have personally arrested offenders that have assaulted nurses and other public sector workers.
This has ranged from pinching a nurses bottom, to a nurse being headbutted in a and e.
That is true. I do not intend to say that they are *never* arrested or prosecuted ; there was a conviction in the local press last week. It does happen.
Just not that often, the Police aren't interested, so nurses tell me !
Silverback Mike said:
I have also arrested offenders that have thrown rocks at firemen. Frankly saying that we have no interest in arresting people that have assaulted nurses is wrong.
Yet nurses tell me otherwise. I'm sure individually Police Officers would like to arrest them, but as a "Service" they don't.
Silverback Mike said:
In relation to this incident, it doesn't look right, I agree. However, at the start of the film it looks like a PC receives a bite from the offender, and yes, no doubt he was resisting arrest, but what happened before the film was started.
Sorry Mike, you are an intelligent copper, but this is *bilge*.
It doesn't matter *AT ALL* what happened "before". King might or might not have bitten someone, he's certainly lumbering into people, but that is irrelevant.
It's irrelevant if he'd beaten up the copper's wife and kicked his children (though more understandable!)
WHATEVER he did before it does not justify kicking a restrained handcuffed man in the head and the balls.
It's a revenge kicking ; the absolute no-no of restraint.
Now, one could say "ah , well, but Police are only human beings etc etc etc etc" ; which is fine ; if this is the case can we have these excuses extended to people who *aren't* Police Officers please ?
Silverback Mike said:
I am all for equal treatment, but all too often it's easy to forget the daily abuse both physical and mental that front line officers face, most things someone that had never been faced with a braying mob at 02.30 in the morning intent on breaking bones would never be able to comprehend.
Sorry, you cannot have it both ways. Either excuses are made because of "the difficult job" or they are not.
At present, the Police allow these excuses only for the Police ! When it is my area for example, they will go for *anything*.
For example, the female teacher who pricked (supposedly, no evidence) the neck of a student whilst removing a headscarf was charged with racially aggravated assault.
As another example ; and this is absolutely true even though it sounds insane ; a Colleague was questioned under caution about "having a funny look on his face". (To be fair to the interviewing coppers he said they did very much exude an attitude of "why are we wasting our time on this ?"
. The double standards are laughable.
Yes, Policing can be a very tough job, but there are other jobs which are tough as well, and that "excuse" doesn't seem to go for anyone other than Policemen.
Silverback Mike said:
No, I am not making excuses for this incident, if it is as the media covered it. But wild accusations about the police not being interested in nurses being assaulted gets right up my nose as I know personally it is wrong.
Well, maybe your force is different to ours, Mike, I don't know, but Nurses will tell you there is frequently little or no interest.
Mon Ami Mate said:
autismuk, I think you are guilty of one-eyed postulating while only being in possession of selective tabloid facts. Too many of your posts consist of BiB bashing and it's time to wind your neck in.
I can tell you for a fact I am not solely "in possession of tabloid facts." ; I am well aware of the different interpretations of assault for different people.
Mon Ami Mate said:
autismuk, I think you are guilty of one-eyed postulating while only being in possession of selective tabloid facts. Too many of your posts consist of BiB bashing and it's time to wind your neck in.
I'm not sure how you can say this - the only thing 'one-eyed' was the camera that filmed a serious assault on a defenceless man. You can read all of the tabloid facts that you want but the pictures do not lie.
A lad I know has been dismissed from the police for being over zealous
while making arrests and he wasn't caught on video. For me it is black and white (or as plain as the nose on your face
) Kicking an arrested, restrained and passive (at that time) man in the balls is plain wrong and criminal charges should follow. cliffe_mafia said:
autismuk, I think you are guilty of one-eyed postulating while only being in possession of selective tabloid facts. Too many of your posts consist of BiB bashing and it's time to wind your neck in.
I'm not sure how you can say this - the only thing 'one-eyed' was the camera that filmed a serious assault on a defenceless man. You can read all of the tabloid facts that you want but the pictures do not lie.
A lad I know has been dismissed from the police for being over zealous
For me it is black and white (or as plain as the nose on your face
I've seen the video and in my view it isn't clear enough to see what the officer is kicking and how much force is being applied. It doesn't show the events that led up to the arrest or give an idea of the amount of resistance that was going on. I wouldn't advocate an officer giving an innocent man a kicking, but this video doesn't prove that this is what is taking place. I'm not surprised then to read that a court has come to the same conclusion. I'm sure there are over-zealous Police Officers, but in general they do a great job under extreme duress and deserve our support.
I've read some of this ongoing post but hadn't viewed the video until just now ......
I can't see whether he is actually handcuffed or in the process of being. I also can't see what is being 'kicked' .
The police certainly in London are taught - or have been - an officer safety technique that involves what looks like 'kicks' in order to give effectively a dead leg. It is designed to hit what I believe is called the common peronial nerve ..... (or similar!)
Officers are warned that this can look like you are giving someone a kicking but are taught it anyway as one option .......
If they were having trouble controlling his legs in order to stop body movement and complete handcuffing this could be what the officer was trying.
However, only those present really know. Maybe he was just kicking him ..... but maybe not!
I can't see whether he is actually handcuffed or in the process of being. I also can't see what is being 'kicked' .
The police certainly in London are taught - or have been - an officer safety technique that involves what looks like 'kicks' in order to give effectively a dead leg. It is designed to hit what I believe is called the common peronial nerve ..... (or similar!)
Officers are warned that this can look like you are giving someone a kicking but are taught it anyway as one option .......
If they were having trouble controlling his legs in order to stop body movement and complete handcuffing this could be what the officer was trying.
However, only those present really know. Maybe he was just kicking him ..... but maybe not!
Mon Ami Mate said:
I've seen the video and in my view it isn't clear enough to see what the officer is kicking and how much force is being applied.
No, but there is other minor evidence, such as the damage noted by a Police Doctor immediately after, that conveniently exactly matches the kicked area.
Mon Ami Mate said:
It doesn't show the events that led up to the arrest
Which is irrelevant. I'm horrified that Police Officers do not appear to be aware of this.
This is, as I've always said, and as is obvious to anyone trained in restraint techniques, a revenge kicking !
Mon Ami Mate said:
or give an idea of the amount of resistance that was going on.
The lack of movement is fairly suggestive that it wasn't much, mind you that might be due to being handcuffed and sat on by two large coppers.
Mon Ami Mate said:
I wouldn't advocate an officer giving an innocent man a kicking, but this video doesn't prove that this is what is taking place.
You don't really believe if it wasn't a copper that no action would be taken, do you ? Apart from the video and the witnesses and the injuries ?
Mon Ami Mate said:
I'm not surprised then to read that a court has come to the same conclusion.
As usual, a court has not been given the opportunity.
Mon Ami Mate said:
I'm sure there are over-zealous Police Officers, but in general they do a great job under extreme duress and deserve our support.
Of course, but the thugs (a tiny minority) do not.
Autismuk
I haven't the skill to quote your points via little boxes, so wont try.
However, my force is obviously different from yours. My team have a letter from the Nursing supervisor of both frenchay and southmead hospital A and E departments stating how impressed they are in relation to police attendance to emergency requests, so a blanket 'not interested' is, wrong. I am not in Norfolk, so have no idea what your lot are up to.
Nor do I have an idea of what line of work you are in, nor do I care but you are not a Police officer, so would never be in the same situation as I. So therefore unable to tell me how to think.
Yes, I agree, there should not be double standards. I don't have them and do not agree with others doing so.
As far as 'bilge'. You may think so, but I shall not resort to personal insults about your posts. You post some intelligent reasonable posts a lot of the time, and know you are not necessarily into BIB bashing.
Let's leave it at that then. I will not turn this into a tennis match. However, the salient point is, Yes I do not agree with kicking someone on the floor when they are cuffed.
I haven't the skill to quote your points via little boxes, so wont try.
However, my force is obviously different from yours. My team have a letter from the Nursing supervisor of both frenchay and southmead hospital A and E departments stating how impressed they are in relation to police attendance to emergency requests, so a blanket 'not interested' is, wrong. I am not in Norfolk, so have no idea what your lot are up to.
Nor do I have an idea of what line of work you are in, nor do I care but you are not a Police officer, so would never be in the same situation as I. So therefore unable to tell me how to think.
Yes, I agree, there should not be double standards. I don't have them and do not agree with others doing so.
As far as 'bilge'. You may think so, but I shall not resort to personal insults about your posts. You post some intelligent reasonable posts a lot of the time, and know you are not necessarily into BIB bashing.
Let's leave it at that then. I will not turn this into a tennis match. However, the salient point is, Yes I do not agree with kicking someone on the floor when they are cuffed.
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