Is it possible to object to planning, after having approved?
Discussion
So just looking at something for an elderly family member:
She's in a row of 5 town houses numbered 1-5 (though oddly from right to left)
Her house and house number 1 have their garages on the right side of the square plot, and the other 3 houses have theirs in a parking area to the rear of their houses with a small courtyard. The back door from my aunts small back patio opens onto this courtyard and is where she leaves her bins.
A new neighbour submitted a planning application to put a gate with key for the courtyard area, and told my aunt that she would have a key to it. Because of this she raised no objection.
Now that the gate is up the neighbour is refusing to give her the key, and further said that she and no other members of her family, deliveries or construction people are allowed in that area. My aunt rightly points out that if there were a fire or another emergency she has no way that she can get out via the rear of her house now. She is the original occupier of the house and first moved in over 60 years ago, and has always had a door opening into that area.
Given that she didn't oppose the planning application on the basis that she's have a key (in writing) can she now ask for it to be rescinded?
If you cant force them to remove the new gates I'm assuming that she has right of access regardless of original plans (by virtue of having had it for 60 odd years) what would be the best course of action?
Hopefully the image uploaded. From the road via google maps, you can see her exit from her house is the black door with the black dustbins infront of it.
Its actually really making my blood boil that someone is coming along and trying to bully a 92 year old woman!
She's in a row of 5 town houses numbered 1-5 (though oddly from right to left)
Her house and house number 1 have their garages on the right side of the square plot, and the other 3 houses have theirs in a parking area to the rear of their houses with a small courtyard. The back door from my aunts small back patio opens onto this courtyard and is where she leaves her bins.
A new neighbour submitted a planning application to put a gate with key for the courtyard area, and told my aunt that she would have a key to it. Because of this she raised no objection.
Now that the gate is up the neighbour is refusing to give her the key, and further said that she and no other members of her family, deliveries or construction people are allowed in that area. My aunt rightly points out that if there were a fire or another emergency she has no way that she can get out via the rear of her house now. She is the original occupier of the house and first moved in over 60 years ago, and has always had a door opening into that area.
Given that she didn't oppose the planning application on the basis that she's have a key (in writing) can she now ask for it to be rescinded?
If you cant force them to remove the new gates I'm assuming that she has right of access regardless of original plans (by virtue of having had it for 60 odd years) what would be the best course of action?
Hopefully the image uploaded. From the road via google maps, you can see her exit from her house is the black door with the black dustbins infront of it.
Its actually really making my blood boil that someone is coming along and trying to bully a 92 year old woman!
Edited by HotJambalaya on Tuesday 5th July 14:59
HotJambalaya said:
So just looking at something for an elderly family member:
She's in a row of 5 town houses numbered 1-5 (though oddly from right to left)
Her house and house number 1 have their garages on the right side of the square plot, and the other 3 houses have theirs in a parking area to the rear of their houses with a small courtyard. The back door from my aunts small back patio opens onto this courtyard and is where she leaves her bins.
A new neighbour submitted a planning application to put a gate with key for the courtyard area, and told my aunt that she would have a key to it. Because of this she raised no objection.
Now that the gate is up the neighbour is refusing to give her the key, and further said that she and no other members of her family, deliveries or construction people are allowed in that area. She rightly points out that if there were a fire or another emergency she has no way that she can get out via the rear of her house now. She is the original occupier of the house and first moved in over 60 years ago, and has always had a door opening into that area.
Given that she didn't oppose the planning application on the basis that she's have a key (in writing) can she now ask for it to be rescinded?
If you cant force them to remove the new gates I'm assuming that she has right of access regardless of original plans (by virtue of having had it for 60 odd years) what would be the best course of action?
Hopefully the image uploaded. From the road via google maps, you can see her exit from her house is the black door with the black dustbins infront of it.
No image/photo?She's in a row of 5 town houses numbered 1-5 (though oddly from right to left)
Her house and house number 1 have their garages on the right side of the square plot, and the other 3 houses have theirs in a parking area to the rear of their houses with a small courtyard. The back door from my aunts small back patio opens onto this courtyard and is where she leaves her bins.
A new neighbour submitted a planning application to put a gate with key for the courtyard area, and told my aunt that she would have a key to it. Because of this she raised no objection.
Now that the gate is up the neighbour is refusing to give her the key, and further said that she and no other members of her family, deliveries or construction people are allowed in that area. She rightly points out that if there were a fire or another emergency she has no way that she can get out via the rear of her house now. She is the original occupier of the house and first moved in over 60 years ago, and has always had a door opening into that area.
Given that she didn't oppose the planning application on the basis that she's have a key (in writing) can she now ask for it to be rescinded?
If you cant force them to remove the new gates I'm assuming that she has right of access regardless of original plans (by virtue of having had it for 60 odd years) what would be the best course of action?
Hopefully the image uploaded. From the road via google maps, you can see her exit from her house is the black door with the black dustbins infront of it.
Check the planning drawings submitted and the planning conditions on the approval, all available on the council website.
Check if there is mention of the lock, check the location of the red line on the site plan.
The only way to get anywhere is with planning enforcement if they have done something different to the planning approval or not followed the conditions. There may be a condition relating to access through the gate.
Check if there is mention of the lock, check the location of the red line on the site plan.
The only way to get anywhere is with planning enforcement if they have done something different to the planning approval or not followed the conditions. There may be a condition relating to access through the gate.
the griffin said:
Check the planning drawings submitted and the planning conditions on the approval, all available on the council website.
Check if there is mention of the lock, check the location of the red line on the site plan.
The only way to get anywhere is with planning enforcement if they have done something different to the planning approval or not followed the conditions. There may be a condition relating to access through the gate.
Very useful thanks!Check if there is mention of the lock, check the location of the red line on the site plan.
The only way to get anywhere is with planning enforcement if they have done something different to the planning approval or not followed the conditions. There may be a condition relating to access through the gate.
I found the application easily enough, it mentions it as an electric sliding security gate, which seems fine. Interestingly the application states it as "Land to the rear of 2-5"
I looked into the application somewhat and this is perhaps the only relevance I can see "Do the proposals require any diversions/extinguishments and/or creation of rights of way?" and the applicant has marked "NO" which of course it does since without a key it extinguishes my aunts access.
Im unsure as to the ownership of that land, but would assume that it belongs to houses 3-5?
HotJambalaya said:
Very useful thanks!
I found the application easily enough, it mentions it as an electric sliding security gate, which seems fine. Interestingly the application states it as "Land to the rear of 2-5"
I looked into the application somewhat and this is perhaps the only relevance I can see "Do the proposals require any diversions/extinguishments and/or creation of rights of way?" and the applicant has marked "NO" which of course it does since without a key it extinguishes my aunts access.
Im unsure as to the ownership of that land, but would assume that it belongs to houses 3-5?
I suggest you go to the Land Registry site, do a map search and pay £3 for the title plan and £3 for the deeds.I found the application easily enough, it mentions it as an electric sliding security gate, which seems fine. Interestingly the application states it as "Land to the rear of 2-5"
I looked into the application somewhat and this is perhaps the only relevance I can see "Do the proposals require any diversions/extinguishments and/or creation of rights of way?" and the applicant has marked "NO" which of course it does since without a key it extinguishes my aunts access.
Im unsure as to the ownership of that land, but would assume that it belongs to houses 3-5?
HotJambalaya said:
Very useful thanks!
I found the application easily enough, it mentions it as an electric sliding security gate, which seems fine. Interestingly the application states it as "Land to the rear of 2-5"
I looked into the application somewhat and this is perhaps the only relevance I can see "Do the proposals require any diversions/extinguishments and/or creation of rights of way?" and the applicant has marked "NO" which of course it does since without a key it extinguishes my aunts access.
Im unsure as to the ownership of that land, but would assume that it belongs to houses 3-5?
Diversions / Extinguishments would normally relate to Rights of Way, which I assume is not relevant here.I found the application easily enough, it mentions it as an electric sliding security gate, which seems fine. Interestingly the application states it as "Land to the rear of 2-5"
I looked into the application somewhat and this is perhaps the only relevance I can see "Do the proposals require any diversions/extinguishments and/or creation of rights of way?" and the applicant has marked "NO" which of course it does since without a key it extinguishes my aunts access.
Im unsure as to the ownership of that land, but would assume that it belongs to houses 3-5?
As other have said, this is a legal issue rather than just planning.
Is there an existing easement in the property deeds relating to the rear access gate?
If so, then the existing right of way would need to be enforced.
If not, and assuming that the access via the back gate has been in documented use for over 20 years, then your relative would need to demonstrate that they have acquired the right of way via prescription. This would then also need to be enforced.
Ultimately, if the new neighbour is not being co-operative, this is likely to require legal action to enforce any existing rights that your relative wants to retain.
Is there an existing easement in the property deeds relating to the rear access gate?
If so, then the existing right of way would need to be enforced.
If not, and assuming that the access via the back gate has been in documented use for over 20 years, then your relative would need to demonstrate that they have acquired the right of way via prescription. This would then also need to be enforced.
Ultimately, if the new neighbour is not being co-operative, this is likely to require legal action to enforce any existing rights that your relative wants to retain.
HotJambalaya said:
I've emailed her son and told him to check the deeds, though I might just do it myself at this rate.
Assuming non compliance how does one go about enforcing it?
Unfortunately the typical way these things go is an escalating level of tit-for-tat, some expensive legal fees, and then front page of the Mail when one of you finally snaps.Assuming non compliance how does one go about enforcing it?
Only slightly in jest. But in reality if somebody is determined to be arse there is no real way to compel them to not be an arse. Your best hope is that you show them evidence that she has a right of access and they are blocking this. But if they refuse to co-operate, your options are both limited and expensive.
This is a surprisingly common issue.
Plenty of terraces have access to the rear garden via the gardens of neighbours. It works out OK if people know what they're getting into when they buy the house and everyone is considerate. But, sometimes people are inconsiderate, e.g. using the backdoor as their primary route in and out, leaving gates open. Which leads to annoyed people locking gates, putting obstacles in the way and so on.
I looked at an end terrace house with such a garden. I asked the people selling the house and they said the deeds made it clear there was an easement for neighbours to use the path at the side of the house and a route across the back garden in order to reach their back gardens. They'd had advice from a solicitor that there wasn't anything they could do to extinguish such an easement short of coming to an agreement with the neighbours (who then wouldn't be able to access their gardens from outside).
ETA OP: get your aunt to check her deeds to see if the easement/right of way is recorded. As she's the original occupier and has always had access it will hopefully be straightforward. The new people might not even be aware of the easement if it's a communal courtyard. They might not even know about the concept of easements.
Plenty of terraces have access to the rear garden via the gardens of neighbours. It works out OK if people know what they're getting into when they buy the house and everyone is considerate. But, sometimes people are inconsiderate, e.g. using the backdoor as their primary route in and out, leaving gates open. Which leads to annoyed people locking gates, putting obstacles in the way and so on.
I looked at an end terrace house with such a garden. I asked the people selling the house and they said the deeds made it clear there was an easement for neighbours to use the path at the side of the house and a route across the back garden in order to reach their back gardens. They'd had advice from a solicitor that there wasn't anything they could do to extinguish such an easement short of coming to an agreement with the neighbours (who then wouldn't be able to access their gardens from outside).
ETA OP: get your aunt to check her deeds to see if the easement/right of way is recorded. As she's the original occupier and has always had access it will hopefully be straightforward. The new people might not even be aware of the easement if it's a communal courtyard. They might not even know about the concept of easements.
Edited by donkmeister on Tuesday 5th July 23:20
I'm trying to visualise where the gate is by reference to the photo - can you describe it, or mark the position of the gate on the photo?
As others have said, this is not a planning issue, it's a legal one. Your aunt will almost certainly have a legally enforceable right of way from her house across the courtyard to her garage (and presumably with a vehicle across the courtyard from the garage to the road).
It's generally quite acceptable to put a gate across a right of way, but only if doing so doesn't cause any substantial interference with the right of way. So, for example, if it's an electric gate the person with the right of way must be given the means to open and close it.
It is absolutely not acceptable to use the gate to prevent the right of way being used at all, as is happening here.
Strictly speaking, the legal remedy would be to apply to the court for an injunction against the woman. An injunction is a court order telling someone to do or not to do something - in this case telling her not to obstruct the right of way. If the order is disobeyed it's contempt of court, potentially punishable by a spell in prison.
But in practical terms you (or your solicitor) would write to the woman pointing out that she was obstructing a legal right of way, and that if she continued to do so an injunction would be sought, together with the legal costs of the application (which would be several thousand quid).
Such a letter (particularly if it's from a solicitor) will often do the trick.
Your aunt should check her house contents policy to see if she has legal expenses insurance - it's often bundled into such policies, and although such policies are notoriously difficult to claim on they are ideal for situations like this, and may mean she can get free legal representation.
As others have said, this is not a planning issue, it's a legal one. Your aunt will almost certainly have a legally enforceable right of way from her house across the courtyard to her garage (and presumably with a vehicle across the courtyard from the garage to the road).
It's generally quite acceptable to put a gate across a right of way, but only if doing so doesn't cause any substantial interference with the right of way. So, for example, if it's an electric gate the person with the right of way must be given the means to open and close it.
It is absolutely not acceptable to use the gate to prevent the right of way being used at all, as is happening here.
Strictly speaking, the legal remedy would be to apply to the court for an injunction against the woman. An injunction is a court order telling someone to do or not to do something - in this case telling her not to obstruct the right of way. If the order is disobeyed it's contempt of court, potentially punishable by a spell in prison.
But in practical terms you (or your solicitor) would write to the woman pointing out that she was obstructing a legal right of way, and that if she continued to do so an injunction would be sought, together with the legal costs of the application (which would be several thousand quid).
Such a letter (particularly if it's from a solicitor) will often do the trick.
Your aunt should check her house contents policy to see if she has legal expenses insurance - it's often bundled into such policies, and although such policies are notoriously difficult to claim on they are ideal for situations like this, and may mean she can get free legal representation.
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