Any Driving Examiners or Instructors Here?
Discussion
My daughter failed the practical test yesterday, but it seems off to me and she is devastated.
Long story short, the chap seemed agitated and rude from the gecko (before getting in the car). Apparently he's a fill-in examiner (not permanently at that test centre). An old fella. She's an 18yo and drives well IMO.
She got 2 minors, but apparently failed on 2 major points: Causing another car to alter speed (a car she was following so that's difficult to do), and pulling into the kerb to allow an approaching vehicle to pass in a side-road rather than staying in the middle of the road and blocking traffic. Both of these sound like b
ks to me.
Maybe the guy was having a bad day, but is there anything that can be done to complain etc?
Long story short, the chap seemed agitated and rude from the gecko (before getting in the car). Apparently he's a fill-in examiner (not permanently at that test centre). An old fella. She's an 18yo and drives well IMO.
She got 2 minors, but apparently failed on 2 major points: Causing another car to alter speed (a car she was following so that's difficult to do), and pulling into the kerb to allow an approaching vehicle to pass in a side-road rather than staying in the middle of the road and blocking traffic. Both of these sound like b
ks to me.Maybe the guy was having a bad day, but is there anything that can be done to complain etc?
Ok. In my distant past I was an instructor, and one of the first things I learned was that pupils who fail don’t often tell you exactly what happened. It’s understandable, and I would leave it til the next lesson to try to get to the bottom of it.
Was her instructor in the car, observing?
Was her instructor in the car, observing?
Tony1963 said:
Ok. In my distant past I was an instructor, and one of the first things I learned was that pupils who fail don’t often tell you exactly what happened. It’s understandable, and I would leave it til the next lesson to try to get to the bottom of it.
Was her instructor in the car, observing?
Yes I generally agree, but I know my daughter well and doubt she's not being truthful. No instructor.Was her instructor in the car, observing?
In a world that's overflowing with bullst we have to deal with day in, day out... I understand this is just another issue on a long list of issues where customer service and all the rest of it is fighting you (and me) and it's one more to add to the list....
However, in the old days we would have looked at a failure like this as the examiners way of keeping someone off the road if they got the general feeling that they weren't ready to be set free alone in a car by themselves.
My wife actually took her test some ridiculous number like 8 times before passing.
As mentioned above, it's probably not that easy to appeal a decision by an examiner. I'm pretty sure if you're worried about bias you would most likely be able to ask not to have the same examiner next time.
t we have to deal with day in, day out... I understand this is just another issue on a long list of issues where customer service and all the rest of it is fighting you (and me) and it's one more to add to the list.... However, in the old days we would have looked at a failure like this as the examiners way of keeping someone off the road if they got the general feeling that they weren't ready to be set free alone in a car by themselves.
My wife actually took her test some ridiculous number like 8 times before passing.
As mentioned above, it's probably not that easy to appeal a decision by an examiner. I'm pretty sure if you're worried about bias you would most likely be able to ask not to have the same examiner next time.
Al Gorithum said:
Yes I generally agree, but I know my daughter well and doubt she's not being truthful. No instructor.
As an example of how distorted it can become:Pupil fails. They’re told it’s due to poor use of the clutch. “But I only stalled once!!!”
But the examiner was witnessing poor use of the clutch every single time it was used. Stalling was just one symptom of a few, but the pupil will concentrate their mind on that one error.
Canon_Fodder said:
Al Gorithum said:
... failed on 2 major points: Causing another car to alter speed (a car she was following so that's difficult to do),
Did the examiner definitely say this (about it being a car she was following), or is that her guess? It does sounds very odd...The whole thing seems out of order, but of course if there's no recourse these people can behave with impunity.
Tony1963 said:
Al Gorithum said:
Yes I generally agree, but I know my daughter well and doubt she's not being truthful. No instructor.
As an example of how distorted it can become:Pupil fails. They’re told it’s due to poor use of the clutch. “But I only stalled once!!!”
But the examiner was witnessing poor use of the clutch every single time it was used. Stalling was just one symptom of a few, but the pupil will concentrate their mind on that one error.
Al Gorithum said:
Yes it is odd. He said "the blue car" (which was in front - with no cars behind).
There would have been dozens of blue cars... My guess is that it was another incident which your daughter wasn't even aware of - perhaps pulling out when she thought it was fine but the examiner judged to be not a big enough gap.Canon_Fodder said:
Al Gorithum said:
Yes it is odd. He said "the blue car" (which was in front - with no cars behind).
There would have been dozens of 100 blue cars... My guess is that it was another incident which your daughter wasn't even aware of - perhaps pulling out when she thought it was fine but the examiner judged to be not a big enough gap.
). You can appeal to the senior examiner at the test centre. They will review the examiner's notes and might possibly overturn the result but, alas, this won't give your daughter a pass but merely a free retest.
As an ex-instructor I have to say the 2 majors do sound odd. The second one about pulling over towards the kerb should be ok but it depends at what speed and whether she might have touched the kerb or driven over a solid white line. The details matter!
A couple of stories from my past. Firstly one of the test areas I used had a notorious bit of road outside a school which wasn't wide enough for passing traffic if cars were pulled up on one side during school drop-off/pick-up. Very often the only way to avoid complete gridlock was to mount the pavement. One of my students took his test at drop-off time and unfortunately used his initiative and carefully mounted the pavement. Wrong! He was devastated when told he had failed for this and challenged the examiner as to how else could he have been able to keep the traffic moving. The examiner simply told him that he should have come to a stop and if, in the opinion of the examiner, the only sensible course of action was to mount the pavement then he would have been instructed to do so by the examiner and would have passed his test.
The other involves a student who was failed for approaching a left hand bend too fast (although well within the speed limit). At any other time the 'speed' would not have been an issue but at that moment a delivery van came round the bend on/over the centre line almost certainly in excess of the 30 limit causing my student to take (minor) evasive action. He didn't drive off the road/hit the kerb but clearly the examiner must have thought his approach could have been more cautious. Once again, I wasn't there so it really was a case of one version of events versus the other. He was distraught and asked whether he could appeal. I explained he could but there would have to be a significant reason to overturn the examiner's decision. Long story short he appealed, the senior examiner reviewed the notes and granted a retest!
As an ex-instructor I have to say the 2 majors do sound odd. The second one about pulling over towards the kerb should be ok but it depends at what speed and whether she might have touched the kerb or driven over a solid white line. The details matter!
A couple of stories from my past. Firstly one of the test areas I used had a notorious bit of road outside a school which wasn't wide enough for passing traffic if cars were pulled up on one side during school drop-off/pick-up. Very often the only way to avoid complete gridlock was to mount the pavement. One of my students took his test at drop-off time and unfortunately used his initiative and carefully mounted the pavement. Wrong! He was devastated when told he had failed for this and challenged the examiner as to how else could he have been able to keep the traffic moving. The examiner simply told him that he should have come to a stop and if, in the opinion of the examiner, the only sensible course of action was to mount the pavement then he would have been instructed to do so by the examiner and would have passed his test.
The other involves a student who was failed for approaching a left hand bend too fast (although well within the speed limit). At any other time the 'speed' would not have been an issue but at that moment a delivery van came round the bend on/over the centre line almost certainly in excess of the 30 limit causing my student to take (minor) evasive action. He didn't drive off the road/hit the kerb but clearly the examiner must have thought his approach could have been more cautious. Once again, I wasn't there so it really was a case of one version of events versus the other. He was distraught and asked whether he could appeal. I explained he could but there would have to be a significant reason to overturn the examiner's decision. Long story short he appealed, the senior examiner reviewed the notes and granted a retest!
Al Gorithum said:
The whole thing seems out of order, but of course if there's no recourse these people can behave with impunity.
Wow, that's an impressive conclusion, behaving with impunity! She failed, I failed, I was pissed off too and think I drove worse on my second test when I passed. As someone who was involved in teaching a lot of young people to drive, you see even the best have a bad day and don't admit it to themselves.Move on, dust off, book another test.
Just wondering if the pulling over to let an oncoming car through was seen as too cautious? Sure, many of us are once we pass but we have loads of learner drivers in my area and it really seems they are told never to move aside unless it is impossible to carry on (ie a parked truck on their side).
If she did have a reasonable way through or could have moved aside further up then perhaps that was the worry.
With forcing the car ahead to speed up....was she tailgating?
If (if) she was going from overly cautious to overly aggressive then no wonder she failed
I do feel,her pain and disappointment though. When 17 the driving test was the most important time of my life and everything centred around it.
I would think you/she can complain but without dashcam footage from the actual test the authorities will close ranks and (to be fair, perhaps correctly) tell her to accept fair criticism and concerns over her abilities to joining the masses of we wonderful, fault free licence holders......
If she did have a reasonable way through or could have moved aside further up then perhaps that was the worry.
With forcing the car ahead to speed up....was she tailgating?
If (if) she was going from overly cautious to overly aggressive then no wonder she failed
I do feel,her pain and disappointment though. When 17 the driving test was the most important time of my life and everything centred around it.
I would think you/she can complain but without dashcam footage from the actual test the authorities will close ranks and (to be fair, perhaps correctly) tell her to accept fair criticism and concerns over her abilities to joining the masses of we wonderful, fault free licence holders......
I took 3 goes. First one I failed for going through an amber light and apparently being too close to a parked car when passing (I remain that either car door could've been opened and I still wouldn't have hit it but hey, I'm not an examiner.). Second test I drove on the wrong side of the road on the way back into the test centre and I only failed because another student was leaving at the time. Had I been 10 seconds faster or slower, I'd have been fine and got a 2nd minor (I did the same on the way out! the road is literally 1 car length) totally accept that's my fault and I needed to do better. Failing your test 30 feet before it ended still stings though!
I've seen online you can appeal a decision on a test but the best they could do is offer you another free test, not overturn the original result. This is a few years ago though.
I've seen online you can appeal a decision on a test but the best they could do is offer you another free test, not overturn the original result. This is a few years ago though.
jondude said:
With forcing the car ahead to speed up....
That's not what the OP (or the examiner) said. 'alter speed' much more likely means she's pulled out in front of something and perhaps been oblivious to it (oir perhaps the examiner judged it harshly)
The 'car in front' bit is a red herring I'm sure
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