Solicitor complaint; worth submitting?
Discussion
Hello good people, I'd like your opinion on whether you think it's worth filing a complaint with a solicitor based on the info below.
Long story short, we had a house sale/purchase fall through as the seller decided they didn't want to sell anymore and as there were no other houses on the market we wanted, neither did we. s
t happens, no biggy. It's worth noting that the seller's estate agent did tell us (verbally) that part of their decision making was based on how long the sale was taking, specifically on the part of our solicitor (I've never mentioned this and don't plan to do so as it's hearsay). Anyway, I immediately (and politely) informed our solicitor that the sale had fallen through; they didn't have much to say, my call log on my phone tells me it was a 33s call.
Anyway, 5 weeks later we've received a letter and attached bill from our solicitor for a not insignificant amount of money to cover outstanding costs. I don't think we should be paying what they've asked, at least not all of it, and have drafted a formal letter of complaint detailing this. I've based my letter based on the template provided by the Legal Ombudsman and I'd be happy to post a redacted version on here if appropriate, but in summary it's based on the following:
- they didn't comply with the agreed and signed Ts&Cs, specifically around keeping us regularly updated and providing estimated completion dates (they did neither). There were numerous emails and phone calls I made (which I have evidence of) which went unanswered. Their communication was generally very poor.
- we never actually met or spoke, even over the phone, to our solicitor until after the sale fell through (see 33s call mentioned above). I only ever spoke to secretaries/receptionists; our solicitor was always "at an appointment" or "out of the office"
- part of the bill we have received lists costs for "generally acting on [our] behalf", however a lot of the time we acted on our own behalf. For example, I once had to call a care home, ask for the manager who then put me in touch with the owner so I could get information about a septic tank that I then forwarded on to the solicitor. While the care home owner was polite and accommodating, this was a bit awkward/embarrassing. The solicitor's recent letter actually states that they were never able to get this information, but I had emailed it to them.
- on at least one occasion (thought I think two), they sent us "attached" documents to review which were never actually attached and despite numerous requests, we never received them.
I've requested that they waive the professional charges and that we'll pay any outstanding search fees.
What do you reckon, have I got a decent argument? Surely worth a punt, I've nothing to lose? If they disagree, I refer to the Ombudsman with evidence and if they disagree I pay. I'm not trying to be a tight here, I genuinely think they're being cheeky bds by asking for payment given how awful their service was. As it's been over a month, I assumed they'd accepted that they were crap and just drew a line under it.
I've never left a bad review on Google or similar in my life, I feel like it's bad juju and often just bitter, but I think I will this time to save others the ballache. That'll show 'em!
Long story short, we had a house sale/purchase fall through as the seller decided they didn't want to sell anymore and as there were no other houses on the market we wanted, neither did we. s
t happens, no biggy. It's worth noting that the seller's estate agent did tell us (verbally) that part of their decision making was based on how long the sale was taking, specifically on the part of our solicitor (I've never mentioned this and don't plan to do so as it's hearsay). Anyway, I immediately (and politely) informed our solicitor that the sale had fallen through; they didn't have much to say, my call log on my phone tells me it was a 33s call. Anyway, 5 weeks later we've received a letter and attached bill from our solicitor for a not insignificant amount of money to cover outstanding costs. I don't think we should be paying what they've asked, at least not all of it, and have drafted a formal letter of complaint detailing this. I've based my letter based on the template provided by the Legal Ombudsman and I'd be happy to post a redacted version on here if appropriate, but in summary it's based on the following:
- they didn't comply with the agreed and signed Ts&Cs, specifically around keeping us regularly updated and providing estimated completion dates (they did neither). There were numerous emails and phone calls I made (which I have evidence of) which went unanswered. Their communication was generally very poor.
- we never actually met or spoke, even over the phone, to our solicitor until after the sale fell through (see 33s call mentioned above). I only ever spoke to secretaries/receptionists; our solicitor was always "at an appointment" or "out of the office"
- part of the bill we have received lists costs for "generally acting on [our] behalf", however a lot of the time we acted on our own behalf. For example, I once had to call a care home, ask for the manager who then put me in touch with the owner so I could get information about a septic tank that I then forwarded on to the solicitor. While the care home owner was polite and accommodating, this was a bit awkward/embarrassing. The solicitor's recent letter actually states that they were never able to get this information, but I had emailed it to them.
- on at least one occasion (thought I think two), they sent us "attached" documents to review which were never actually attached and despite numerous requests, we never received them.
I've requested that they waive the professional charges and that we'll pay any outstanding search fees.
What do you reckon, have I got a decent argument? Surely worth a punt, I've nothing to lose? If they disagree, I refer to the Ombudsman with evidence and if they disagree I pay. I'm not trying to be a tight
here, I genuinely think they're being cheeky bds by asking for payment given how awful their service was. As it's been over a month, I assumed they'd accepted that they were crap and just drew a line under it. I've never left a bad review on Google or similar in my life, I feel like it's bad juju and often just bitter, but I think I will this time to save others the ballache. That'll show 'em!
During the initial process of the purchase/sale and you not feeling happy about the service being provided by your solicitor did you raise any concerns by letter or email?
If you have done so then this will act in your favour as the issue was raised during the on going process and not after the collapse of the purchase/sale as this would look like you are trying to get out of paying part of the legal bill due to the purchase failing.
I know from my own experience that we never had direct contact with our solicitor until the very very last stages of our purchase/sale.
On another purchase using a different solicitor we found her to be so slow that I sent several emails basically telling her to get her backside into gear or I would find someone else and I would not be paying for her time.
Hope you get sorted.
If you have done so then this will act in your favour as the issue was raised during the on going process and not after the collapse of the purchase/sale as this would look like you are trying to get out of paying part of the legal bill due to the purchase failing.
I know from my own experience that we never had direct contact with our solicitor until the very very last stages of our purchase/sale.
On another purchase using a different solicitor we found her to be so slow that I sent several emails basically telling her to get her backside into gear or I would find someone else and I would not be paying for her time.
Hope you get sorted.
Waste of time.
I had a qualified solicitor who fked up on a purchase that basically meant we completed a day late. No real harm done and that was exactly the way the senior partner saw my complaint.
I simply reminded him that we used them as they were local but in the future none of my family would do so. Thankfully they are no longer trading.
At the moment I'm helping someone sell/buy. The solicitor simply doesn't answer the phone and hasn't acknowledged any of my voicemails. Does respond to email but only relating to the sale/purchase (I've asked questions regarding cost of wills and other stuff)
I had a qualified solicitor who f
ked up on a purchase that basically meant we completed a day late. No real harm done and that was exactly the way the senior partner saw my complaint.I simply reminded him that we used them as they were local but in the future none of my family would do so. Thankfully they are no longer trading.
At the moment I'm helping someone sell/buy. The solicitor simply doesn't answer the phone and hasn't acknowledged any of my voicemails. Does respond to email but only relating to the sale/purchase (I've asked questions regarding cost of wills and other stuff)
Edited by Sir Bagalot on Monday 25th July 22:29
Dark Star said:
During the initial process of the purchase/sale and you not feeling happy about the service being provided by your solicitor did you raise any concerns by letter or email?
If you have done so then this will act in your favour as the issue was raised during the on going process and not after the collapse of the purchase/sale as this would look like you are trying to get out of paying part of the legal bill due to the purchase failing.
I know from my own experience that we never had direct contact with our solicitor until the very very last stages of our purchase/sale.
On another purchase using a different solicitor we found her to be so slow that I sent several emails basically telling her to get her backside into gear or I would find someone else and I would not be paying for her time.
Hope you get sorted.
Other than hammering them with 'can you please provide an update' emails, I didn't formally complain throughout the process. Appreciate that would help my case now, but hindsight is 20/20 and all that. I didn't want to have a poor/salty relationship with the person I was relying on to get me a new house, I suppose.If you have done so then this will act in your favour as the issue was raised during the on going process and not after the collapse of the purchase/sale as this would look like you are trying to get out of paying part of the legal bill due to the purchase failing.
I know from my own experience that we never had direct contact with our solicitor until the very very last stages of our purchase/sale.
On another purchase using a different solicitor we found her to be so slow that I sent several emails basically telling her to get her backside into gear or I would find someone else and I would not be paying for her time.
Hope you get sorted.
Thank you.
Sir Bagalot said:
Waste of time.
I had a qualified solicitor who fked up on a purchase that basically meant we completed a day late. No real harm done and that was exactly the way the senior partner saw my complaint.
I simply reminded him that we used them as they were local but in the future none of my family would do so. Thankfully they are no longer trading.
At the moment I'm helping someone sell/buy. The solicitor simply doesn't answer the phone and hasn't acknowledged any of my voicemails. Does respond to email but only relating to the sale/purchase (I've asked questions regarding cost of wills and other stuff)
It's mad how almost anyone you talk to has a poor opinion of the profession, but they themselves don't seem to give a fI had a qualified solicitor who f
ked up on a purchase that basically meant we completed a day late. No real harm done and that was exactly the way the senior partner saw my complaint.I simply reminded him that we used them as they were local but in the future none of my family would do so. Thankfully they are no longer trading.
At the moment I'm helping someone sell/buy. The solicitor simply doesn't answer the phone and hasn't acknowledged any of my voicemails. Does respond to email but only relating to the sale/purchase (I've asked questions regarding cost of wills and other stuff)
Edited by Sir Bagalot on Monday 25th July 22:29
k and continue to be useless. The company I used was local too, despite being advised to use one of the larger, nationwide firms by more than one person. We've also used them in the past and whilst that experience also wasn't great (I believe the solicitor acting on our behalf had a nervous breakdown or similar), I thought we'd be treat well as returning customers. I think what they will say if I submit a complaint is how busy they are/have been, but in my opinion if you're too busy to provide an adequate service then don't offer to take on the work.
For an adult response:
1. The firm is obliged to have a complaints procedure. You need to go through that first.
2. If you’re not happy with the outcome of that, go to the Legal Ombudsman.
3. If you think there has been a breach of the rules governing solicitors, go to the Solicitors Regulation Authority.
1. The firm is obliged to have a complaints procedure. You need to go through that first.
2. If you’re not happy with the outcome of that, go to the Legal Ombudsman.
3. If you think there has been a breach of the rules governing solicitors, go to the Solicitors Regulation Authority.
I had 2 issues with our solicitor 4 years ago when we moved.
Firstly, on the day of exchange our solicitor was off ill as was his secretary. No one thought to check his desk and nor did he report in to his firm on what was urgent for that day. As such the exchange ate was missed which then knocked on the completion date.
Secondly, the firm were late in submitting the tax to the Welsh authorities and as such I received a fine. It was sorted pretty quickly but nevertheless it shouldn't have happened.
I complained to the solicitors and they knocked 10% off our fees as a result!
Firstly, on the day of exchange our solicitor was off ill as was his secretary. No one thought to check his desk and nor did he report in to his firm on what was urgent for that day. As such the exchange ate was missed which then knocked on the completion date.
Secondly, the firm were late in submitting the tax to the Welsh authorities and as such I received a fine. It was sorted pretty quickly but nevertheless it shouldn't have happened.
I complained to the solicitors and they knocked 10% off our fees as a result!
I'm a solicitor and have also seen life on the other side of the table as a consumer.
I understand the pressures of legal work but equally, that doesn't excuse poor service and it's staggering that so many firms (particularly conveyancing) just seem to accept this as the norm. Answering the phone and providing timely updates should really be the bare minimum.
As noted above, once you have complained to the firm, you have the opportunity to address your complaint to the Legal Ombudsman if you are still not happy with the response.
The firm has to pay a fee of £400 to the Ombudsman (https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/contact-or-visit-us/helplines/practice-advice-service/q-and-as/when-can-a-legal-ombudsman-case-fee-be-charged ) just for them to even look at the case.
The fee is non-refundable except for limited exceptions so as you can imagine, most firms will just offer to knock the bill down in the first instance to avoid paying the £400 fee. Also, the last thing any firm wants is to have an external party crawling over its files, particularly as there are so many regulatory pitfalls these days.
I would certainly suggest complaining if you're not happy. Keep your letter factual and to the point and be reasonable in what you are asking them to do.
I understand the pressures of legal work but equally, that doesn't excuse poor service and it's staggering that so many firms (particularly conveyancing) just seem to accept this as the norm. Answering the phone and providing timely updates should really be the bare minimum.
As noted above, once you have complained to the firm, you have the opportunity to address your complaint to the Legal Ombudsman if you are still not happy with the response.
The firm has to pay a fee of £400 to the Ombudsman (https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/contact-or-visit-us/helplines/practice-advice-service/q-and-as/when-can-a-legal-ombudsman-case-fee-be-charged ) just for them to even look at the case.
The fee is non-refundable except for limited exceptions so as you can imagine, most firms will just offer to knock the bill down in the first instance to avoid paying the £400 fee. Also, the last thing any firm wants is to have an external party crawling over its files, particularly as there are so many regulatory pitfalls these days.
I would certainly suggest complaining if you're not happy. Keep your letter factual and to the point and be reasonable in what you are asking them to do.
horsemeatscandal said:
It's mad how almost anyone you talk to has a poor opinion of the profession, but they themselves don't seem to give a fk and continue to be useless.
k and continue to be useless.edthefed said:
Seems your Solicitor has behaved like 99% of Solicitors behave !
Probably too busy complaining about being overcharged (for concrete) to do your work 
mgv8 said:
Why are Solicitors that deal with property often so bad?
Because it's not particularly interesting or attractive work - it's often time consuming and repetitive and you're dealing with LAs and occasionally HAs or professional landlords (none of whom can be any fun at all to deal with, if I'm being empathic for a change). So it attracts those 'less capable' or 'less ambitious' solicitors in the main.
There are some who enjoy it, or at least who get to be very competent at it and make a good career of it. But in the main it's people who like the title solicitor but aren't really all that good.
I am in the position where I believe I may be overcharged by a solicitor for some work in connection with an overage on my property. He is acting for the church who sold me the house but I am paying his fees, as I am selling the property.
I intend to pay up and query the fee once the sale has been completed, for an easy life.
Is there a procedure where someone independent looks at the fee and determines whether it is fair or not?
I intend to pay up and query the fee once the sale has been completed, for an easy life.
Is there a procedure where someone independent looks at the fee and determines whether it is fair or not?
Who is doing the actual work?
The solicitor or a member of staff? In many cases the footwork is done by admin people with additional training. Does the solicitor’s firm have progress chasing procedures checked by someone?
We sold a house 3 years ago. No issues at all. The buyer’s solicitor queried electrical certs. We had not had any work done. I chased it up with our Building Control at the council. Spotted why the error was there ( BC put the wrong address from the Elec Cert people). Solicitor just asked for my evidence. It took me one day only and my choice to keep the pace up. BC at council corrected their error and confirmed it. I did wonder at what delays/ extra costs would have occurred if left to the solicitor. She was very good though.
My daughter works in the Land Registry. Some horror stories about the standard of paperwork from solicitors plus the last minute rush they tried to push because they had let things drift. Really basic errors in paperwork and some were repeat offenders.
The solicitor or a member of staff? In many cases the footwork is done by admin people with additional training. Does the solicitor’s firm have progress chasing procedures checked by someone?
We sold a house 3 years ago. No issues at all. The buyer’s solicitor queried electrical certs. We had not had any work done. I chased it up with our Building Control at the council. Spotted why the error was there ( BC put the wrong address from the Elec Cert people). Solicitor just asked for my evidence. It took me one day only and my choice to keep the pace up. BC at council corrected their error and confirmed it. I did wonder at what delays/ extra costs would have occurred if left to the solicitor. She was very good though.
My daughter works in the Land Registry. Some horror stories about the standard of paperwork from solicitors plus the last minute rush they tried to push because they had let things drift. Really basic errors in paperwork and some were repeat offenders.
havoc said:
There are some who enjoy it, or at least who get to be very competent at it and make a good career of it. But in the main it's people who like the title solicitor but aren't really all that good.
I was lucky with our last purchase as the solicitor mainly dealt with corporate relocations. He was a tenacious guy... cost £1500+searches but was incredibly effective, but he said he would never do "mass" domestic work - it was a favour for my dad. Reading this, I’m even more thankful for the solicitor we used last year.
I had all the recommendations, but also took advice from an estate agent acquaintance. I jokingly said I wanted a no nonsense, ruthless bd. He passed me her number.
She took no prisoners with the other parties and their recalcitrant lawyers. One solicitor went AWOL. She tracked him down, called him at home and made him jump to it.
There was a fk up on completion day which meant for a few hours we were technically homeless. She told us not to worry and that we’d be put up in a top hotel while she would take our dogs - and add this all to a breach of contract claim.
She had it all sorted within ten minutes at 17:30 on a Friday evening.
She told me that crap, slow, lazy lawyers are the bane of her life.
Sadly, you need to micro manage some of these guys. I had a solicitor take a year to transfer ownership in a property I’d acquired. Despite me asking for regular updates. He got all shouty on the phone when I called him to say I’d had enough. Days later the transfer went through.
I paid something like 10% of the bill and told him to sue me for the rest which based in his fkwittery, he’d probably not get round to. I heard no more and the firm was soon absorbed into a big national chain.
I’m no expert, but your suggestion of paying for searches - stuff you actually owe them for - seems reasonable.
I had all the recommendations, but also took advice from an estate agent acquaintance. I jokingly said I wanted a no nonsense, ruthless b
d. He passed me her number.She took no prisoners with the other parties and their recalcitrant lawyers. One solicitor went AWOL. She tracked him down, called him at home and made him jump to it.
There was a f
k up on completion day which meant for a few hours we were technically homeless. She told us not to worry and that we’d be put up in a top hotel while she would take our dogs - and add this all to a breach of contract claim. She had it all sorted within ten minutes at 17:30 on a Friday evening.
She told me that crap, slow, lazy lawyers are the bane of her life.
Sadly, you need to micro manage some of these guys. I had a solicitor take a year to transfer ownership in a property I’d acquired. Despite me asking for regular updates. He got all shouty on the phone when I called him to say I’d had enough. Days later the transfer went through.
I paid something like 10% of the bill and told him to sue me for the rest which based in his f
kwittery, he’d probably not get round to. I heard no more and the firm was soon absorbed into a big national chain.I’m no expert, but your suggestion of paying for searches - stuff you actually owe them for - seems reasonable.
Edited by Wildcat45 on Wednesday 27th July 20:53
Edited by Wildcat45 on Wednesday 27th July 20:54
horsemeatscandal said:
we never actually met or spoke, even over the phone, to our solicitor until after the sale fell through
That sounds bizarre to me. How did you find/appoint/instruct this firm? Unless it's clear what you asked them to do, when you asked them do it by etc you may not have a leg to stand on. Presumably you received a letter of from sort from them explaining what they were going to do and what they were going to charge you for it.
The usual basis of charging will be along the lines of so much for a phone call, so much for a letter, so much for an email, so much for a meeting etc etc and, in conveyancing, some sort of overall fee guidance.
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