Tenant deposit question - can I charge for my own time?
Discussion
I have a buy to let with a garden.
Tenant has served notice and left (no problem with any of that). There are a number of jobs to get the property back to the condition in which it was rented out. Some of these I can rectify and show invoices (eg broken light fitting etc). Others I can do myself (eg tidy the garden, replace a lock as they lost a key).
In the event that I do the work myself, I assume I can charge the tenant and take the cost off of the deposit. For the gardening, it took me 4 hours over a weekend to clear up. The lock replacement took me an hour. For each of these jobs, I propose to get a quote from a gardener and locksmith respectively and charge the tenant that amount even though I did the work myself.
Is this common / accepted practice?
Tenant has served notice and left (no problem with any of that). There are a number of jobs to get the property back to the condition in which it was rented out. Some of these I can rectify and show invoices (eg broken light fitting etc). Others I can do myself (eg tidy the garden, replace a lock as they lost a key).
In the event that I do the work myself, I assume I can charge the tenant and take the cost off of the deposit. For the gardening, it took me 4 hours over a weekend to clear up. The lock replacement took me an hour. For each of these jobs, I propose to get a quote from a gardener and locksmith respectively and charge the tenant that amount even though I did the work myself.
Is this common / accepted practice?
Dapster said:
I have a buy to let with a garden.
Tenant has served notice and left (no problem with any of that). There are a number of jobs to get the property back to the condition in which it was rented out. Some of these I can rectify and show invoices (eg broken light fitting etc). Others I can do myself (eg tidy the garden, replace a lock as they lost a key).
In the event that I do the work myself, I assume I can charge the tenant and take the cost off of the deposit. For the gardening, it took me 4 hours over a weekend to clear up. The lock replacement took me an hour. For each of these jobs, I propose to get a quote from a gardener and locksmith respectively and charge the tenant that amount even though I did the work myself.
Is this common / accepted practice?
It's not really acceptable practice to mess people about getting quotes for work that you've no intention of having them do.Tenant has served notice and left (no problem with any of that). There are a number of jobs to get the property back to the condition in which it was rented out. Some of these I can rectify and show invoices (eg broken light fitting etc). Others I can do myself (eg tidy the garden, replace a lock as they lost a key).
In the event that I do the work myself, I assume I can charge the tenant and take the cost off of the deposit. For the gardening, it took me 4 hours over a weekend to clear up. The lock replacement took me an hour. For each of these jobs, I propose to get a quote from a gardener and locksmith respectively and charge the tenant that amount even though I did the work myself.
Is this common / accepted practice?
Is there an agent involved?
Were there formal inspections and inventories?
Last time I was involved in something similar we just said to the tenant 'we think it would be fair to deduct £x from the deposit because of ....' by email and they agreed. We were happy to give them the majority back and they were happy to get it quickly with minimum fuss.
I expect we could have put more effort into screwing more money out of them, but they could have fought it which would have taken more of my time.
You were probably going to want to change the locks anyway, it's not their fault it takes you an hour to change a cylinder.
The garden, it's always open to debate how much time is reasonable and how much of the weeds grew etc. after they left. You were always going to need to attend to it between tenants.
If these are the only issues they've left you with, you've done well out of them.
Thanks all for the comments.
To be clear, the tenants signed off the check in report when they moved in, and are in receipt of the check out report which sets out the areas in discussion - lost keys, overgrown garden, some broken fittings etc. They have not disputed the report (maintaining the garden was an obligation in the tenancy agreement) - they would obviously like their deposit back and I need to hold some back for rectification.
I could ask a gardener / locksmith etc to do the work but that would take time to arrange (these guys are all busy at the moment) and wanted the property looking nice quickly to show to prospective tenants. I'm not trying to screw the tenants, just seeking fair compensation for the corrective action.
As I see it, the options are 1) get the pro's in and charge the tenants or 2) do it myself and not charge them. Is there no fair way to charge the tenants regardless of who does the work?
It seems unfair that the tenants can leave the property with corrective action outstanding at it have no financial impact on them if I do all the work.
Say you accidently bumped someone's car in a car park. You exchange details, they email you a few days later with a quote from a body shop for £250 - sounds reasonable you think, you don't want to go through insurance so you transfer the money. You don't care if they repair the car or not, you've just paid out what is fair.
I'm asking if there is a tenant/landlord equivalent. I'm seeking fair compensation, not trying to fund a 911 deposit!
To be clear, the tenants signed off the check in report when they moved in, and are in receipt of the check out report which sets out the areas in discussion - lost keys, overgrown garden, some broken fittings etc. They have not disputed the report (maintaining the garden was an obligation in the tenancy agreement) - they would obviously like their deposit back and I need to hold some back for rectification.
I could ask a gardener / locksmith etc to do the work but that would take time to arrange (these guys are all busy at the moment) and wanted the property looking nice quickly to show to prospective tenants. I'm not trying to screw the tenants, just seeking fair compensation for the corrective action.
As I see it, the options are 1) get the pro's in and charge the tenants or 2) do it myself and not charge them. Is there no fair way to charge the tenants regardless of who does the work?
It seems unfair that the tenants can leave the property with corrective action outstanding at it have no financial impact on them if I do all the work.
Say you accidently bumped someone's car in a car park. You exchange details, they email you a few days later with a quote from a body shop for £250 - sounds reasonable you think, you don't want to go through insurance so you transfer the money. You don't care if they repair the car or not, you've just paid out what is fair.
I'm asking if there is a tenant/landlord equivalent. I'm seeking fair compensation, not trying to fund a 911 deposit!
Dapster said:
Say you accidently bumped someone's car in a car park. You exchange details, they email you a few days later with a quote from a body shop for £250 - sounds reasonable you think, you don't want to go through insurance so you transfer the money. You don't care if they repair the car or not, you've just paid out what is fair.
I'm sorry but this is why I always insist on going through insurance even for a very minor bump - to save being fraudulently parted with my money.We had this recently where the tenant left the garden in a mess. Grass hadn’t been cut for several months weeds as high as your waist and generally unkept throughout their time there.
The tenant accepted at checkout that they hadn’t met their obligations but with the new tenant moving in two days later our managing agent couldn’t organise a gardener in time to fix it. They agreed with us that we did the works, our time was billed at minimum wage so as to avoid any dispute about the cost and this was then deducted from the deposit.
The tenant accepted at checkout that they hadn’t met their obligations but with the new tenant moving in two days later our managing agent couldn’t organise a gardener in time to fix it. They agreed with us that we did the works, our time was billed at minimum wage so as to avoid any dispute about the cost and this was then deducted from the deposit.
Dapster said:
I have a buy to let with a garden.
Tenant has served notice and left (no problem with any of that). There are a number of jobs to get the property back to the condition in which it was rented out. Some of these I can rectify and show invoices (eg broken light fitting etc). Others I can do myself (eg tidy the garden, replace a lock as they lost a key).
In the event that I do the work myself, I assume I can charge the tenant and take the cost off of the deposit. For the gardening, it took me 4 hours over a weekend to clear up. The lock replacement took me an hour. For each of these jobs, I propose to get a quote from a gardener and locksmith respectively and charge the tenant that amount even though I did the work myself.
Is this common / accepted practice?
What tradespeople are going to quote you for a job that’s already been done?! Don’t waste their time.Tenant has served notice and left (no problem with any of that). There are a number of jobs to get the property back to the condition in which it was rented out. Some of these I can rectify and show invoices (eg broken light fitting etc). Others I can do myself (eg tidy the garden, replace a lock as they lost a key).
In the event that I do the work myself, I assume I can charge the tenant and take the cost off of the deposit. For the gardening, it took me 4 hours over a weekend to clear up. The lock replacement took me an hour. For each of these jobs, I propose to get a quote from a gardener and locksmith respectively and charge the tenant that amount even though I did the work myself.
Is this common / accepted practice?
You spent an afternoon doing stuff at your property…ask the tenants for £50 quid for your time if you’re really that tight, or get over yourself and move on with your life if they dispute it.
Get tradesmen in and send copy if invoices to the tenants. Put the deduction amount into the Deposit Protection Scheme. The tenant will accept or contest the deduction.
The DPS will send the revised amount back to the tenant. If not contested. If the tenant disagrees the amount, the DPS will appoint a solicitor foc to judge on the evidence submitted. As long as both parties agrees to the arbitration and possible outcome.
I would just be happy on having my property back and spending some time pottering about for a day to get it straight.
The DPS will send the revised amount back to the tenant. If not contested. If the tenant disagrees the amount, the DPS will appoint a solicitor foc to judge on the evidence submitted. As long as both parties agrees to the arbitration and possible outcome.
I would just be happy on having my property back and spending some time pottering about for a day to get it straight.
Asking the tenant to return the property in the condition in which it was rented to them save for fair wear and tear is a condition of the rental agreement. I’m not being tight.
All I’m asking is, is there an acceptable alternative to getting a handyman in and billing the tenant his costs, and it seems like charging for my time at min wage would be a starting point as it would be significantly cheaper for the tenant too.
Thanks again all.
All I’m asking is, is there an acceptable alternative to getting a handyman in and billing the tenant his costs, and it seems like charging for my time at min wage would be a starting point as it would be significantly cheaper for the tenant too.
Thanks again all.
Sir Bagalot said:
Yes and No.
If you doing it as a private individual, No. You can't charge for any of your time.
If you have your own company separate from the BTL then you can get your company to send an invoice for the jobs done.
^^^totally agree with the above. This landlord always changes locks in between tenants, so no charge to the outgoing tenant/s, as for the garden, stop being unreasonable OP, and tender the garden yourself.If you doing it as a private individual, No. You can't charge for any of your time.
If you have your own company separate from the BTL then you can get your company to send an invoice for the jobs done.
Wings said:
Sir Bagalot said:
Yes and No.
If you doing it as a private individual, No. You can't charge for any of your time.
If you have your own company separate from the BTL then you can get your company to send an invoice for the jobs done.
^^^totally agree with the above. This landlord always changes locks in between tenants, so no charge to the outgoing tenant/s, as for the garden, stop being unreasonable OP, and tender the garden yourself.If you doing it as a private individual, No. You can't charge for any of your time.
If you have your own company separate from the BTL then you can get your company to send an invoice for the jobs done.
The garden is a funny one, I've never rented a place with a garden before but I don't think I'd have an issue doing a bit of gardening if there was working equipment to do it.
I wouldn't be buying my own lawnmower etc to tend someone else's lawn though.
Maybe worth upping the rent a little and contracting a gardener to come in and do the basics? That's what we have in our current building and it's nice to have an outdoor space to use/not have a totally disgusting bin store.
I wouldn't be buying my own lawnmower etc to tend someone else's lawn though.
Maybe worth upping the rent a little and contracting a gardener to come in and do the basics? That's what we have in our current building and it's nice to have an outdoor space to use/not have a totally disgusting bin store.
I completely disagree with those calling the OP tight, it's obviously not worth getting upset about it but the tenant does have an obligation to keep the place in a reasonable state.
I'm happy enough to freshen up the paint, do some weeding, edging and trim bushes and plants between tenants but would be pretty put out if I turned up to find waist high weeds instead of a garden.
As others have suggested - minimum wage seems (very) reasonable as a deduction for the time spent putting things right.
I'm happy enough to freshen up the paint, do some weeding, edging and trim bushes and plants between tenants but would be pretty put out if I turned up to find waist high weeds instead of a garden.
As others have suggested - minimum wage seems (very) reasonable as a deduction for the time spent putting things right.
ZedLeg said:
The garden is a funny one, I've never rented a place with a garden before but I don't think I'd have an issue doing a bit of gardening if there was working equipment to do it.
I wouldn't be buying my own lawnmower etc to tend someone else's lawn though.
Maybe worth upping the rent a little and contracting a gardener to come in and do the basics? That's what we have in our current building and it's nice to have an outdoor space to use/not have a totally disgusting bin store.
That's a bit like saying you wouldn't hoover someone else's carpets and they should up the rent and hire a cleaner. If you rent somewhere with a garden, you look after it like you would the house.I wouldn't be buying my own lawnmower etc to tend someone else's lawn though.
Maybe worth upping the rent a little and contracting a gardener to come in and do the basics? That's what we have in our current building and it's nice to have an outdoor space to use/not have a totally disgusting bin store.
The difference is that you can buy a decent hoover for about £60 and take it with you when you move, I wouldn't want the expense of buying a decent lawnmower that I might not need when I move.
TBH if I was looking at a place that had a garden and I was expected to buy my own stuff to look after it I wouldn't bother applying for it.
TBH if I was looking at a place that had a garden and I was expected to buy my own stuff to look after it I wouldn't bother applying for it.
fred bloggs said:
You sound like a tight 
. Is it not good enough they have paid your mortgage on the place while staying there.
You have had your profit from them, now make it ready for the next persons so you can up the rent, and increase your yield.
Greedy bas7ard.
It's a business. When you hand back a lease or hire car do you moan if they charge you for damage. After all you have paid their finance so they should just make it good themselves?. Is it not good enough they have paid your mortgage on the place while staying there. You have had your profit from them, now make it ready for the next persons so you can up the rent, and increase your yield.
Greedy bas7ard.
With regard to paing the mortgage. The majority of BTL's are interest only. The figures just don't stack up if you think it can pay a repayment mortgage. Average yields are 4-5% gross and BTL mortgages are more expensive than residential mortgages.
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