Care Worker Concern
Discussion
Ok long story short, my father has been looking after his partner who had a stroke a few months back. She was discharged from hospital and a palliative care package put in place. The prognosis is that she is approaching end of life as she has cardiomyopathy and serious breathing difficulties, a DNR order is also in place and it's been made clear further hospital admission would not benefit her.. She is paralysed down her right side and unable to speak and is bed bound. My father despite my concerns and his advancing years has been doing a great job with the assistance of other family members. I have been keeping a very close eye on things and initially thought she would be better off in a care facility but he's the old fashioned type who believes once you go into a home you are in his words 'finished'
So the carers who visit 4 times a day but my father raised concerns a few weeks ago that one care worker was using wet wipes to wash his partner, he said when he mentioned it the carer seemed angered by this. Then last week he told me the same care worker was saying she 'loved' her and was hugging her. Then he said she was taking photographs of his partner on her personal phone. His partner is not able to give consent and my father said when he ask why and the carer said ' to show how well she's improved', Surely the only people who would be interested is the lead carer who already visit at least once a day.
Now the consent thing is an issue but I'm baffled why a carer who is effectively a stranger would start taking photographs of a woman who has had a stroke on her personal phone, it feels a complete breach of trust. I've spoken to my father who doesn't want to make big deal of it. But I'm thinking I should at least report it to social services or even the police as it just seems very odd.
So the carers who visit 4 times a day but my father raised concerns a few weeks ago that one care worker was using wet wipes to wash his partner, he said when he mentioned it the carer seemed angered by this. Then last week he told me the same care worker was saying she 'loved' her and was hugging her. Then he said she was taking photographs of his partner on her personal phone. His partner is not able to give consent and my father said when he ask why and the carer said ' to show how well she's improved', Surely the only people who would be interested is the lead carer who already visit at least once a day.
Now the consent thing is an issue but I'm baffled why a carer who is effectively a stranger would start taking photographs of a woman who has had a stroke on her personal phone, it feels a complete breach of trust. I've spoken to my father who doesn't want to make big deal of it. But I'm thinking I should at least report it to social services or even the police as it just seems very odd.
Edited by sutoka on Thursday 13th October 03:51
I really don't know the proper procedure for this, but in the first instance, couldn't you just contact the company or NHS dept who is delivering the care workers and request that this person doesn't attend the house?
If they ask why then furnish them with as little/ much detail as you want to. From being uncomfortable with their actions to all out complaint.
The behaviour does seem a bit odd to say the least.
If they ask why then furnish them with as little/ much detail as you want to. From being uncomfortable with their actions to all out complaint.
The behaviour does seem a bit odd to say the least.
Can you find a reason to be around when said carer visits?
Using wet wipes is not unusual for bed bathing. Falling out over it is.
Some care workers can be clumsily and non specifically affectionate as part of their personality and professional patter. This can really grate when they are dealing with your loved one. More so when they are dying.
The phone thing is a bit odd. There are circumstances where subject to consent/best interests, a care worker might use a camera - eg. send an image to a district nurse to in re asking advice about skin care or to monitor progress of a pressure area. Not for the uses you've described.
It's also not unusual for family members to get quite jealous, resentful and undermining of care workers especially if the workers are taking over care which the husband/partner has hitherto provided entirely independently. In my experience, men struggle on caring for women and have more difficulty acceptin help.
I wonder if there may be a bit of a 'tug of love' dynamic?
Would be good if you see said worker in action yourself, your gut feeling with tell you if they are a wrong 'un. If there are workers from another agency, NHS or MacMillan it might be worth checking out with them.
Might be worth cross posting in 'Health'
Using wet wipes is not unusual for bed bathing. Falling out over it is.
Some care workers can be clumsily and non specifically affectionate as part of their personality and professional patter. This can really grate when they are dealing with your loved one. More so when they are dying.
The phone thing is a bit odd. There are circumstances where subject to consent/best interests, a care worker might use a camera - eg. send an image to a district nurse to in re asking advice about skin care or to monitor progress of a pressure area. Not for the uses you've described.
It's also not unusual for family members to get quite jealous, resentful and undermining of care workers especially if the workers are taking over care which the husband/partner has hitherto provided entirely independently. In my experience, men struggle on caring for women and have more difficulty acceptin help.
I wonder if there may be a bit of a 'tug of love' dynamic?
Would be good if you see said worker in action yourself, your gut feeling with tell you if they are a wrong 'un. If there are workers from another agency, NHS or MacMillan it might be worth checking out with them.
Might be worth cross posting in 'Health'
There is absolutely no reason why a carer would use a personal phone to take photos of a patient/resident whilst in their care, it just shouldn't happen and there is no justifiable reason for it, none. This is absolutely wrong and you should report it to whomever supplies these carers asap and also request that they do not come back.
Honestly, this breaks so many boundaries.
Honestly, this breaks so many boundaries.
My brother has carers which are employed by my parents. We have a WhatsApp group with everyone in. Photos are taken of him for a number of reasons. He’s had a nice day etc. Or a pressure sore forming so we can keep an eye on if it’s getting better or worse.
However, my parents have said this is OK. Especially the photos of him out and about. The carers are part of the family.
It’s not a police matter so no need to contact them, however it is a safeguarding issue. I’d report to the care agency and social services.
If you (and those involved) aren’t happy at photos being taken etc. say it can’t happen.
When I worked in a kids respite home, we weren’t allowed our phones on us unless it was for certain kids who had serious medical needs and in case we needed to call an ambulance. That was a work phone that had no camera.
However, my parents have said this is OK. Especially the photos of him out and about. The carers are part of the family.
It’s not a police matter so no need to contact them, however it is a safeguarding issue. I’d report to the care agency and social services.
If you (and those involved) aren’t happy at photos being taken etc. say it can’t happen.
When I worked in a kids respite home, we weren’t allowed our phones on us unless it was for certain kids who had serious medical needs and in case we needed to call an ambulance. That was a work phone that had no camera.
I had a conversation with someone I know who is an education specialist the other day. We were just talking about the fact they get minimum wage and no travel time, whilst the agency charges them out for a high rate.
However she suggested that many care workers have issues themselves, which is in part why they are care workers. So it might be better just to ask her not to take photos rather than put her career at risk.
However she suggested that many care workers have issues themselves, which is in part why they are care workers. So it might be better just to ask her not to take photos rather than put her career at risk.
Spleen said:
There is absolutely no reason why a carer would use a personal phone to take photos of a patient/resident whilst in their care, it just shouldn't happen and there is no justifiable reason for it, none. This is absolutely wrong and you should report it to whomever supplies these carers asap and also request that they do not come back.
Honestly, this breaks so many boundaries.
My son is a carer (albeit for autistic young adults not end of life) and apart from some very specific cases (recording risks from things like faulty appliances for example) this would not be allowed.Honestly, this breaks so many boundaries.
Safe guarding , duty of care etc would I believe see him given a formal warning and (depending on the images) fired . As I understand it if pictures are required then the person in the pictures has to consent and/or there needs to be a documented reason for the pics that aligns to a process. If that person cant consent then their responsible person would need to do so.
This is based on what he has told me about how his job works so Im no expert but I think I have got this roughly correct.
Exactly my view as well what you need to understand is that a good majority of the care workers are from other parts of the world (Philippines, Africa, India etc) where showing affection to complete strangers in a normal way of life for them as well as addressing an older person as 'uncle' or 'aunty' though they are total strangers, These are things which are not done here in the UK
So best have a word and tell the carer not to take photos would be a good option
Chrisgr31 said:
I had a conversation with someone I know who is an education specialist the other day. We were just talking about the fact they get minimum wage and no travel time, whilst the agency charges them out for a high rate.
However she suggested that many care workers have issues themselves, which is in part why they are care workers. So it might be better just to ask her not to take photos rather than put her career at risk.
However she suggested that many care workers have issues themselves, which is in part why they are care workers. So it might be better just to ask her not to take photos rather than put her career at risk.
I used to work for a care company, granted in the IT side of things. Plus my mother in laws mother was cared for by a number of carers.
Certainly as part of their process the carers are required to document if they recipients of the care are feeling sad, didnt want to eat etc the drugs taken/not taken etc. This should be documented either on paper or digitially called a care plan and something else (I forget the name).
IF and its a big IF the company has moved to a digital care plan the photos MAY be used to observe your mums health, however this should have been disscussed with the Next of kin or the person with POA, and it should have been taken with a company issued phone.
IF you have ANY concerns about the carer or anything they have done you should raise with with the carers manager in the first instance, if you dont get the result you want then social services. If you are not paying for the care, social services will reallocate your care to another company if you are not happy.
Certainly as part of their process the carers are required to document if they recipients of the care are feeling sad, didnt want to eat etc the drugs taken/not taken etc. This should be documented either on paper or digitially called a care plan and something else (I forget the name).
IF and its a big IF the company has moved to a digital care plan the photos MAY be used to observe your mums health, however this should have been disscussed with the Next of kin or the person with POA, and it should have been taken with a company issued phone.
IF you have ANY concerns about the carer or anything they have done you should raise with with the carers manager in the first instance, if you dont get the result you want then social services. If you are not paying for the care, social services will reallocate your care to another company if you are not happy.
Definitely contact care provider, raise safeguarding concerns. My father has 4 care visits per day, ive had cameras installed outside property as its remote (keeps me sane). if I had concerns id be there and fitting cameras inside. CQC/local auth call if care company doesn't sort it out
As a nurse of 17 plus years, working with vulnerable adults, many of whom have no capacity, we have a very low threshold for making safeguarding referrals.
Depending on your area, it may be possible to do it in a few minutes via an online portal.
Sounds a strange situation and if it doesn't feel right, then it probably isn't, so make a referral.
Depending on your area, it may be possible to do it in a few minutes via an online portal.
Sounds a strange situation and if it doesn't feel right, then it probably isn't, so make a referral.
Craig f said:
I used to work for a care company, granted in the IT side of things. Plus my mother in laws mother was cared for by a number of carers.
Certainly as part of their process the carers are required to document if they recipients of the care are feeling sad, didnt want to eat etc the drugs taken/not taken etc. This should be documented either on paper or digitially called a care plan and something else (I forget the name).
IF and its a big IF the company has moved to a digital care plan the photos MAY be used to observe your mums health, however this should have been disscussed with the Next of kin or the person with POA, and it should have been taken with a company issued phone.
IF you have ANY concerns about the carer or anything they have done you should raise with with the carers manager in the first instance, if you dont get the result you want then social services. If you are not paying for the care, social services will reallocate your care to another company if you are not happy.
This would be my take on it. As the patient is on end-of-life care, then perhaps they are recording the state of her health and disposition in case there is any come-back III a rapid deterioration occurs. That really should have been relayed to you, if that is the case. I would not approach the police, but the care organiser first, be that the care company or social services. Certainly as part of their process the carers are required to document if they recipients of the care are feeling sad, didnt want to eat etc the drugs taken/not taken etc. This should be documented either on paper or digitially called a care plan and something else (I forget the name).
IF and its a big IF the company has moved to a digital care plan the photos MAY be used to observe your mums health, however this should have been disscussed with the Next of kin or the person with POA, and it should have been taken with a company issued phone.
IF you have ANY concerns about the carer or anything they have done you should raise with with the carers manager in the first instance, if you dont get the result you want then social services. If you are not paying for the care, social services will reallocate your care to another company if you are not happy.
This is a safeguarding issue pure and simple. Taking photos as a career is a red light. Taking photos of a person who does not have capacity to consent is a red light. At best the carer is naïve. This must be reported to allow a full investigation to safeguard the user. It may be nothing but a naive care worker but needs investigation.
My background is nhs and social care. At a senior level for context.
My background is nhs and social care. At a senior level for context.
Craig f said:
I used to work for a care company, granted in the IT side of things. Plus my mother in laws mother was cared for by a number of carers.
Certainly as part of their process the carers are required to document if they recipients of the care are feeling sad, didnt want to eat etc the drugs taken/not taken etc. This should be documented either on paper or digitially called a care plan and something else (I forget the name).
IF and its a big IF the company has moved to a digital care plan the photos MAY be used to observe your mums health, however this should have been disscussed with the Next of kin or the person with POA, and it should have been taken with a company issued phone.
IF you have ANY concerns about the carer or anything they have done you should raise with with the carers manager in the first instance, if you dont get the result you want then social services. If you are not paying for the care, social services will reallocate your care to another company if you are not happy.
The only time you take a photo for digital care plans is of the resident's face for ID, that's it. Wound care might use photographic evidence to monitor progress but again, consent need to be given. Certainly as part of their process the carers are required to document if they recipients of the care are feeling sad, didnt want to eat etc the drugs taken/not taken etc. This should be documented either on paper or digitially called a care plan and something else (I forget the name).
IF and its a big IF the company has moved to a digital care plan the photos MAY be used to observe your mums health, however this should have been disscussed with the Next of kin or the person with POA, and it should have been taken with a company issued phone.
IF you have ANY concerns about the carer or anything they have done you should raise with with the carers manager in the first instance, if you dont get the result you want then social services. If you are not paying for the care, social services will reallocate your care to another company if you are not happy.
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