Police using bodycam of speedo as evidence of speeding
Discussion
Hi,
Does this sound legitimate?? my son was followed by a police van having allegedly passed them at speed. They were stationary at the time. In the space of c.700m the officer is claiming that he caught up and tailed my son to corroborate the speeding claiming body cam footage of his (calibrated??) Speedo is evidence of speeding. He was in plain sight when my son passed him and he knew the officer had pulled out to follow him and accordingly was not speeding, he does admit to dropping the clutch and blipping the engine when passing the van (fwit) but is adamant he was not speeding , certainly not from the point he passed the van and being pulled over.
To make matters worse my son declined to accept the roadside ticket claiming he had not been speeding at all and disputing the evidence of the claim he had . He was breathalysed at the time and was completely sober. I’ve listened to audio of this incident and while my son was being a mildly objectionable twunk, it can’t be “find a Charge day” to fit him can it??
The body cam of a speedo does sound deeply odd to me. So fast forward and now he is being taken to court over this , officers statement and the works.
This particular PC has “form” for being heavy hand / bad attitude with a member of the public and was admonished publicly on social media by his force in response to the video of that incident. My son knew this and has a had a couple of “car life” interactions with him previously, this may have coloured both their behaviours that night. I’m tempted to let him learn his lesson from this but at the same time I can’t condone a fit up type lesson because of egos clashing and dodgy claims.
Basic physics shows he’d have about 2 secs to accelerate , catch up then tail my son before pulling him over on the basis of a Speedo video ??
Does this sound legitimate?? my son was followed by a police van having allegedly passed them at speed. They were stationary at the time. In the space of c.700m the officer is claiming that he caught up and tailed my son to corroborate the speeding claiming body cam footage of his (calibrated??) Speedo is evidence of speeding. He was in plain sight when my son passed him and he knew the officer had pulled out to follow him and accordingly was not speeding, he does admit to dropping the clutch and blipping the engine when passing the van (fwit) but is adamant he was not speeding , certainly not from the point he passed the van and being pulled over.
To make matters worse my son declined to accept the roadside ticket claiming he had not been speeding at all and disputing the evidence of the claim he had . He was breathalysed at the time and was completely sober. I’ve listened to audio of this incident and while my son was being a mildly objectionable twunk, it can’t be “find a Charge day” to fit him can it??
The body cam of a speedo does sound deeply odd to me. So fast forward and now he is being taken to court over this , officers statement and the works.
This particular PC has “form” for being heavy hand / bad attitude with a member of the public and was admonished publicly on social media by his force in response to the video of that incident. My son knew this and has a had a couple of “car life” interactions with him previously, this may have coloured both their behaviours that night. I’m tempted to let him learn his lesson from this but at the same time I can’t condone a fit up type lesson because of egos clashing and dodgy claims.
Basic physics shows he’d have about 2 secs to accelerate , catch up then tail my son before pulling him over on the basis of a Speedo video ??
All sounds a bit fishy to me, I cannot provide advice but it might be worth getting someone like agtlaw on it on here or finding a solicitor imo.
To me it sounds like this officer needs a bit of training and your son possibly a bit of passing the attitude test approach.
I must admit I have dealt with one officer of a force that shall remain nameless. In fairness I had slightly pulled out on him, held my hands up, but he started being a little aggressive as well towards me and clearly had a chip on his shoulder, I simply did not rise to the bait. Irony being got to the end of the road and he forces his way out into the road...
I do have less respect for the police as a result of that activity and some certain ones in my current region are less than competent. All tend to be the more mainstream pc's though, never had a bad interaction with RPU.
To me it sounds like this officer needs a bit of training and your son possibly a bit of passing the attitude test approach.
I must admit I have dealt with one officer of a force that shall remain nameless. In fairness I had slightly pulled out on him, held my hands up, but he started being a little aggressive as well towards me and clearly had a chip on his shoulder, I simply did not rise to the bait. Irony being got to the end of the road and he forces his way out into the road...
I do have less respect for the police as a result of that activity and some certain ones in my current region are less than competent. All tend to be the more mainstream pc's though, never had a bad interaction with RPU.
ian_cab28 said:
he does admit to dropping the clutch and blipping the engine when passing the van (fwit)
ian_cab28 said:
My son knew this and has a had a couple of “car life” interactions with him previously
Maybe your son does need a minor life lesson. What is he doing to attract so much attention?The opinion of one police officer, supported by the reading from a mechanical device (which doesn't need to be 'calibrated'), has been held as sufficient to convict for the offence of excess speed.
If there were two officers in the van and they were both of the opinion the vehicle was speeding, they wouldn't need the reading from any device to support the allegation.
If this was on a motorway, there are no such requirements for corroboration.
If there were two officers in the van and they were both of the opinion the vehicle was speeding, they wouldn't need the reading from any device to support the allegation.
If this was on a motorway, there are no such requirements for corroboration.
I will get legal advice, I don’t condone him driving badly, like many young men who pass, he had a bit of a car mad 12 months , where his idea of cool was to hang around in a Tesco car park with similar nitwits! He has very much calmed down now.
My primary query is …is a police transit van speedo calibrated and is filming the speedo while at the same time tailing the car and maybe trying to get the car in the frame simultaneously even a thing?? Because it sound ridiculous to me.
My primary query is …is a police transit van speedo calibrated and is filming the speedo while at the same time tailing the car and maybe trying to get the car in the frame simultaneously even a thing?? Because it sound ridiculous to me.
ian_cab28 said:
I’m looking for advice as whether this is a legitimate penalty in line with the law and evidence requirements.
https://www.bewiser.co.uk/news/car-insurance/truth...ian_cab28 said:
My primary query is …is a police transit van speedo calibrated and is filming the speedo while at the same time tailing the car and maybe trying to get the car in the frame simultaneously even a thing?? Because it sound ridiculous to me.
Established case law would not be on your side.I've always thought that a significant number of people are chosen to receive speeding tickets because it's easier than charging them with their actual crime, in this case 'being a twunk'.
If the bodycam shows the car in front not getting any closer and the speedo showing several mph over the limit what do you conclude?
Have you seen the footage?
Isn't the word of the copper enough anyway?
A lot of people think they are 'not speeding' because they are going the same speed as the traffic, which is often 35 in a 30. So the police are free to pick a few people to nick.
Unless the copper stepped over the edge into proper complaints territory, I'd say from the evidence so far, one noisy throttle blipping @£$& bang to rights.
If the bodycam shows the car in front not getting any closer and the speedo showing several mph over the limit what do you conclude?
Have you seen the footage?
Isn't the word of the copper enough anyway?
A lot of people think they are 'not speeding' because they are going the same speed as the traffic, which is often 35 in a 30. So the police are free to pick a few people to nick.
Unless the copper stepped over the edge into proper complaints territory, I'd say from the evidence so far, one noisy throttle blipping @£$& bang to rights.
In my view the bodycam could well be used as evidence. View of the followed vehicle and the van speedo would suffice, also if there were two in the van.
Now, the van most likely hasn't got a calibrated speedo, but the evidence could be used if the speed was well over the limit, to avoid the percentage difference, or the van can be put through a speed camera van/ calibrated hand held camera or followed by a RPU car, that officer could then complete a statement verifying the speed or difference in speed.
The van may also be equipped these days by a tracker/ gps system that will give location/ speed etc. These records could also be used for additional evidence.
Depends how far the officers/ cps want to take it?
As for the officers conduct, that's a different matter. If he is trying to 'fit someone up', then he needs to be held to account and dealt with appropriately.
In my experience, what the youngster do and what they then tell parents etc can be 'different' to varying degrees, not saying that in this case but can be.
Now, the van most likely hasn't got a calibrated speedo, but the evidence could be used if the speed was well over the limit, to avoid the percentage difference, or the van can be put through a speed camera van/ calibrated hand held camera or followed by a RPU car, that officer could then complete a statement verifying the speed or difference in speed.
The van may also be equipped these days by a tracker/ gps system that will give location/ speed etc. These records could also be used for additional evidence.
Depends how far the officers/ cps want to take it?
As for the officers conduct, that's a different matter. If he is trying to 'fit someone up', then he needs to be held to account and dealt with appropriately.
In my experience, what the youngster do and what they then tell parents etc can be 'different' to varying degrees, not saying that in this case but can be.
It can be used. If it shows the speedo and the car not gaining/dropping back then shows them doing x speed.
Doesn’t need to be calibrated at all. There is case law that states this. I’ll try and find it as I had someone contest it recently (caught on dash cam rather than body worn video but same thing).
Doesn’t need to be calibrated at all. There is case law that states this. I’ll try and find it as I had someone contest it recently (caught on dash cam rather than body worn video but same thing).
If it goes to court then I imagine any judge would take a dim view of your son acting like a disrespectful twerp to the Police, this may make the judge more likely to fall against your son.
He might have gotten off with a "slow down" talking to if he had acted better on the attitude test but the blipping of the throttle was a come on and he got what he asked for.
He might have gotten off with a "slow down" talking to if he had acted better on the attitude test but the blipping of the throttle was a come on and he got what he asked for.
OP it's an interesting situation.
If I was your son I would not accept an injustice, but he clearly needs professional legal advice from a specialist - and of course the chap mentioned above would be a very good choice by all accounts.
I would let him make his own decision about what to do - and incur his own costs too.
If I was your son I would not accept an injustice, but he clearly needs professional legal advice from a specialist - and of course the chap mentioned above would be a very good choice by all accounts.
I would let him make his own decision about what to do - and incur his own costs too.
SS2. said:
The opinion of one police officer, supported by the reading from a mechanical device (which doesn't need to be 'calibrated'), has been held as sufficient to convict for the offence of excess speed.
My boss got done like this when he is absolutly adamant he wasn't over the limit - he saw and waved at a cop 'hiding' and holding a radar gun, he says more to show that he wasn't hiding after all. Got stopped further up the road and was prosecuted. The cop holding the gun had left the police and joined the Army so he assumed they'd let it go. Nope, they went the trouble of pulling him back to give evidence.
I got stopped quite a bit as young lad mainly due to being out and about at odd hours but never got done for anything but even so, my opinion of the police is still coloured by the interactions I had with police officers at the time.
LosingGrip said:
It can be used. If it shows the speedo and the car not gaining/dropping back then shows them doing x speed.
Doesn’t need to be calibrated at all. There is case law that states this. I’ll try and find it as I had someone contest it recently (caught on dash cam rather than body worn video but same thing).
I'd be interested to see this stated case, as I wasn't aware that the rules had changed, and although not calibrated, the non traffic vehicle speedo always used to have to be checked, to offer some sort of corroboration to the reporting officers opinion.Doesn’t need to be calibrated at all. There is case law that states this. I’ll try and find it as I had someone contest it recently (caught on dash cam rather than body worn video but same thing).
I've seen many grey imports going through SVA with wildly optimistic speedos, thus offering no corroboration if unchecked.
[quote=Sheepshanks]
My boss got done like this when he is absolutly adamant he wasn't over the limit - he saw and waved at a cop 'hiding' and holding a radar gun, he says more to show that he wasn't hiding after all. Got stopped further up the road and was prosecuted.
This made me smile, perhaps my son’s issues are genetic, I rested my wrists on top of my steering wheel and held my hands up to a speed cam van several years ago (same spot, easy pickings, low hazard coming up to nsl)…imagine my surprise when a letter came through inviting me to review the footage or face a charge of not being in control of the vehicle ! Turns out they don’t like it up ‘em !!! Having said that the (different) copper was really nice when reviewing the footage down the station and put me on the “naughty boy” course …largely white van men done for holding phones and me as the sole Pratt !
I often watch YouTube videos and wonder how they get away with not always being “in control at all times”
Some good advice here, thanks, I don’t mind him learning / taught lessons but they have to be legitimate and proportionate to any offence not the ego of the officer. Eg I was once was stopped at lights, slightly sub optimum lane choice for next turning, gently out accelerating cops in corsa away from light, changed lane, blues on , pulled over. His words, after initially claiming “do I know you”…”I know it’s only a corsa but don’t take the piss” !!
My boss got done like this when he is absolutly adamant he wasn't over the limit - he saw and waved at a cop 'hiding' and holding a radar gun, he says more to show that he wasn't hiding after all. Got stopped further up the road and was prosecuted.
This made me smile, perhaps my son’s issues are genetic, I rested my wrists on top of my steering wheel and held my hands up to a speed cam van several years ago (same spot, easy pickings, low hazard coming up to nsl)…imagine my surprise when a letter came through inviting me to review the footage or face a charge of not being in control of the vehicle ! Turns out they don’t like it up ‘em !!! Having said that the (different) copper was really nice when reviewing the footage down the station and put me on the “naughty boy” course …largely white van men done for holding phones and me as the sole Pratt !
I often watch YouTube videos and wonder how they get away with not always being “in control at all times”
Some good advice here, thanks, I don’t mind him learning / taught lessons but they have to be legitimate and proportionate to any offence not the ego of the officer. Eg I was once was stopped at lights, slightly sub optimum lane choice for next turning, gently out accelerating cops in corsa away from light, changed lane, blues on , pulled over. His words, after initially claiming “do I know you”…”I know it’s only a corsa but don’t take the piss” !!
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