Consumer rights
Discussion
I'm not sure this is in the right category, apologies if not!
To cut a very long story short, we purchased 4 pairs of dining chairs from an online retailer, with in a couple of weeks the back of 2 chairs had split. These were replaced with no real issues. About 3 months after purchase the base of 4 of the chairs split. The retailer insisted on sending an independent inspector to look at the chairs. I attempted to arrange an appointment and was put on a waiting list for a weekend appointment (we both work Mon- Fri), after 2 months I had heard nothing so contacted the retailer again, they basically said tough so I took a day of work to allow the inspector to attend.
He agreed that the base of 4 of the chairs had split due to a manufacturing fault (they had been cut across the grain of the wood causing an obvious weak point).
The retailer have now admitted the manufacturing fault and agreed to refund the chairs, however, they are insisting I package (8 dining chairs remember) and allow their courier to collect Monday to Saturday, so now a Saturday stuck in waiting for their courier to collect. They will then refund in 10 working days.
This is not to mention the appalling customer services, hours on chat trying to resolve the matter, one staff member lying on chat that they have no complaints procedure (all screen shotted) etc etc
As far as I am concerned once they admit fault they should refund immediately and arrange collection at my convenience and I certainly should not be supplying materials and time to package their faulty goods.
They tell me my complaint was escalated on 1st October but I have heard nothing since. What are my rights here, I am tempted to leave the chairs outside for their collection, after informing them of this obviously, and just go to small claims court including a claim for my wasted time!
To cut a very long story short, we purchased 4 pairs of dining chairs from an online retailer, with in a couple of weeks the back of 2 chairs had split. These were replaced with no real issues. About 3 months after purchase the base of 4 of the chairs split. The retailer insisted on sending an independent inspector to look at the chairs. I attempted to arrange an appointment and was put on a waiting list for a weekend appointment (we both work Mon- Fri), after 2 months I had heard nothing so contacted the retailer again, they basically said tough so I took a day of work to allow the inspector to attend.
He agreed that the base of 4 of the chairs had split due to a manufacturing fault (they had been cut across the grain of the wood causing an obvious weak point).
The retailer have now admitted the manufacturing fault and agreed to refund the chairs, however, they are insisting I package (8 dining chairs remember) and allow their courier to collect Monday to Saturday, so now a Saturday stuck in waiting for their courier to collect. They will then refund in 10 working days.
This is not to mention the appalling customer services, hours on chat trying to resolve the matter, one staff member lying on chat that they have no complaints procedure (all screen shotted) etc etc
As far as I am concerned once they admit fault they should refund immediately and arrange collection at my convenience and I certainly should not be supplying materials and time to package their faulty goods.
They tell me my complaint was escalated on 1st October but I have heard nothing since. What are my rights here, I am tempted to leave the chairs outside for their collection, after informing them of this obviously, and just go to small claims court including a claim for my wasted time!
As the seller has admitted liability, I’d be asking for a full refund now. Let them know when the chairs are ready for collection but I wouldn’t be packing them. I don’t think you can claim for your time through a small claims court. If you paid by card, it might be worth contacting your bank to explain that the seller has admitted the goods are faulty but will not provide a refund unless you incur more costs.
You won’t get a refund before they have the goods back - as a retailer, I made this mistake then the customer went quiet and I never got the stuff back.
Far too risky on their part - you can’t have both the goods and the money. Once the goods are back I’m sure they’ll refund without issue.
Far too risky on their part - you can’t have both the goods and the money. Once the goods are back I’m sure they’ll refund without issue.
Easy, stack the chairs top to bottom on a pallet and shrink wrap the lot together. Wrap around the base of the pallet around several times before working your way up so the whole lot stays together. Wrap a few layers on top for weather proofing and leave outside for the courier. That's your part done..
Draxindustries1 said:
Easy, stack the chairs top to bottom on a pallet and shrink wrap the lot together. Wrap around the base of the pallet around several times before working your way up so the whole lot stays together. Wrap a few layers on top for weather proofing and leave outside for the courier. That's your part done..
Canon_Fodder said:
Oh yes you will - via a section 75 - if the seller is playing silly buggers.
With clear evidence of P-taking, the bank / CCC refunds the consumer and then claws back the money from the retailer
Are they though? Customer made a purchase. There was shortly after isues with 2 of the items. Replaced by the seller with little issue.With clear evidence of P-taking, the bank / CCC refunds the consumer and then claws back the money from the retailer
Couple of months later and customer wants all chairs repaired for more apparent faults. Seems reasonable to ask for an inspection. This took ages as the customer messed around refusing to make themselves available for an inspection despite it being in their interests to get this resolved.
Following the inspection the retailer agrees to take the chairs back. Yet again customer is being obtuse because they are not making themselves available to facilitate a collection...
The store may well not have a complaints procedure. I work for a small retail outlet and we do not have such a thing either, theres only a handful of people there. Sometimes customer do not help us to help them which can be pretty frustrating.
Just another side to the whole thing,
Draxindustries1 said:
Easy, stack the chairs top to bottom on a pallet and shrink wrap the lot together. Wrap around the base of the pallet around several times before working your way up so the whole lot stays together. Wrap a few layers on top for weather proofing and leave outside for the courier. That's your part done..
Yeah easy. Everyone has a pallet and a roll of industrial shrink wrap knocking around somewhere. And if the OP finds that it's getting in the way while he waits for the courier, he could just shift it with his forklift.It reads to me like the retailer is being very accommodating and trying to assist the OP, however no matter what they do, he is still moaning and now looking for 'compensayshun! for his time, although if he had bought them from a physical store, he would have even more hassle of trying to return them.
GranpaB said:
It reads to me like the retailer is being very accommodating and trying to assist the OP, however no matter what they do, he is still moaning and now looking for 'compensayshun! for his time, although if he had bought them from a physical store, he would have even more hassle of trying to return them.
How do you reach that conclusion? A physical (local) store would be far easier, especially if he has an estate car. It would be 1hr job to take them back, or have them send their van out to collect them.
An important note with regards couriering them back is how were they originally delivered? If they came boxed or loose then they are likely to have come in a van. Courier vans don't have pump trucks so if you were to shrink wrap them to a pallet then the collection van driver will take one look at them and drive off, leaving them sat on your driveway.
If they are taken back loose then, having spent quite a number of years doing parcel hub work as an artic driver, I say with a reasonable amount of confidence they will not be in a resaleable condition when they arrive back at the customer premises, which will give the customer the perfect excuse they need to not refund you.
Edited by r3g on Sunday 23 October 09:21
r3g said:
GranpaB said:
It reads to me like the retailer is being very accommodating and trying to assist the OP, however no matter what they do, he is still moaning and now looking for 'compensayshun! for his time, although if he had bought them from a physical store, he would have even more hassle of trying to return them.
How do you reach that conclusion? A physical (local) store would be far easier, especially if he has an estate car. It would be 1hr job to take them back, or have them send their van out to collect them.
An important note with regards couriering them back is how we they originally delivered? If they came boxed or loose then they are likely to have come in a van. Courier vans don't have pump trucks so if you were to shrink wrap them to a pallet then the collection van driver will take one look at them and drive off, leaving them sat on your driveway.
If they are taken back loose then, having spent quite a number of years doing parcel hub work as an artic driver, I say with a reasonable amount of confidence they will not be in a resaleable condition when they arrive back at the customer premises, which will give the customer the perfect excuse they need to not refund you.
Thanks for the replies! I have offered to drop them at a shop/courier depot, however, they are refusing that. The issue regarding the time is that both the inspection and collection are and "all day" appointments. If they could give a specific time or even morning or afternoon we could probably accommodate it. However, as was the case with the inspection I ended up having to wait in all day for the bloke to turn up at 4pm, I am not prepared to do that again on a Saturday!
Regarding then being worried about not getting their faulty goods back, they have been examined by their independent inspector and confirmed to be faulty and he also confirms that the 4 that haven't broken yet are likely to break so they don't need them back to inspect them. Why would I want to keep 4 broken and 4 imminently broken chairs. I have offered to take then to the tip which, presumably, is what they are going to do with them. However, they are insisting I waste more of my time and money buying and packaging their faulty goods for them then waiting for their courier to collect.
And, strangely, I do not have a pallet and roll of wrap kicking around the house!
Regarding then being worried about not getting their faulty goods back, they have been examined by their independent inspector and confirmed to be faulty and he also confirms that the 4 that haven't broken yet are likely to break so they don't need them back to inspect them. Why would I want to keep 4 broken and 4 imminently broken chairs. I have offered to take then to the tip which, presumably, is what they are going to do with them. However, they are insisting I waste more of my time and money buying and packaging their faulty goods for them then waiting for their courier to collect.
And, strangely, I do not have a pallet and roll of wrap kicking around the house!
I have not read in your posts what payment method you used to purchase them. If by CC then that would be my next move. Explaining the situation to your CC provider and their unreasonable expectations of what they want you to perform in order to return their unfit-for-purpose items back them, should hopefully result in a refund back your account which would then put the ball in your court and allow you to dictate the terms going forwards, ie. your chairs are available at x location for the next 14 days for you to collect. If they are still there beyond that time period then they will be disposed of as I see fit.
Yes as above OP - Section 75 is the way to go here.
The chairs are defective and the seller is making you jump through unreasonable hoops in order to get the refund to which you are entitled.
I have a couple of similar experiences recently and on both occasions the bank refunded me immediately and then magically all the previous issues with the seller disappeared and they were good as gold
The chairs are defective and the seller is making you jump through unreasonable hoops in order to get the refund to which you are entitled.
I have a couple of similar experiences recently and on both occasions the bank refunded me immediately and then magically all the previous issues with the seller disappeared and they were good as gold
edthedead said:
Thanks for the replies! I have offered to drop them at a shop/courier depot, however, they are refusing that. The issue regarding the time is that both the inspection and collection are and "all day" appointments. If they could give a specific time or even morning or afternoon we could probably accommodate it. However, as was the case with the inspection I ended up having to wait in all day for the bloke to turn up at 4pm, I am not prepared to do that again on a Saturday!
Regarding then being worried about not getting their faulty goods back, they have been examined by their independent inspector and confirmed to be faulty and he also confirms that the 4 that haven't broken yet are likely to break so they don't need them back to inspect them. Why would I want to keep 4 broken and 4 imminently broken chairs. I have offered to take then to the tip which, presumably, is what they are going to do with them. However, they are insisting I waste more of my time and money buying and packaging their faulty goods for them then waiting for their courier to collect.
And, strangely, I do not have a pallet and roll of wrap kicking around the house!
Why would they agree to them being taken to the tip? One would assume they wanted them back to return to their suppliers for them to investigate the reasons for failure, and to get their money back.Regarding then being worried about not getting their faulty goods back, they have been examined by their independent inspector and confirmed to be faulty and he also confirms that the 4 that haven't broken yet are likely to break so they don't need them back to inspect them. Why would I want to keep 4 broken and 4 imminently broken chairs. I have offered to take then to the tip which, presumably, is what they are going to do with them. However, they are insisting I waste more of my time and money buying and packaging their faulty goods for them then waiting for their courier to collect.
And, strangely, I do not have a pallet and roll of wrap kicking around the house!
GranpaB said:
Why would they agree to them being taken to the tip? One would assume they wanted them back to return to their suppliers for them to investigate the reasons for failure, and to get their money back.
It's pretty normal with online furniture to be asked to get rid of it. Likely they came from Vietnam or somewhere similar - no way is the supplier going to ship them back,GranpaB said:
edthedead said:
Thanks for the replies! I have offered to drop them at a shop/courier depot, however, they are refusing that. The issue regarding the time is that both the inspection and collection are and "all day" appointments. If they could give a specific time or even morning or afternoon we could probably accommodate it. However, as was the case with the inspection I ended up having to wait in all day for the bloke to turn up at 4pm, I am not prepared to do that again on a Saturday!
Regarding then being worried about not getting their faulty goods back, they have been examined by their independent inspector and confirmed to be faulty and he also confirms that the 4 that haven't broken yet are likely to break so they don't need them back to inspect them. Why would I want to keep 4 broken and 4 imminently broken chairs. I have offered to take then to the tip which, presumably, is what they are going to do with them. However, they are insisting I waste more of my time and money buying and packaging their faulty goods for them then waiting for their courier to collect.
And, strangely, I do not have a pallet and roll of wrap kicking around the house!
Why would they agree to them being taken to the tip? One would assume they wanted them back to return to their suppliers for them to investigate the reasons for failure, and to get their money back.Regarding then being worried about not getting their faulty goods back, they have been examined by their independent inspector and confirmed to be faulty and he also confirms that the 4 that haven't broken yet are likely to break so they don't need them back to inspect them. Why would I want to keep 4 broken and 4 imminently broken chairs. I have offered to take then to the tip which, presumably, is what they are going to do with them. However, they are insisting I waste more of my time and money buying and packaging their faulty goods for them then waiting for their courier to collect.
And, strangely, I do not have a pallet and roll of wrap kicking around the house!
The way they have behaved so far leads me to suspect that even if I was do to as they ask the refund would not be forthcoming.
Thank you for the advice about section 75, I did thankfully pay by CC so will explore that option.
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