Law regarding mobile use in vehicles
Discussion
My understanding is that the vehicle must be "safely parked", which means engine off. Ignition on to allow radio would appear to be fine. I think the point being that car can't move whilst you're using your phone.
Best option would be to have the phone in cradle when fiddlng with it, in which case it won't matter.
Best option would be to have the phone in cradle when fiddlng with it, in which case it won't matter.
My understanding has always been that if you're parked up then you can have the engine running but need to have the handbrake engaged and the gear in neutral. I.e. not with simply your foot on the brake.
That came about in London several years ago when a Met officer tapped my window to advise me to apply my handbrake whilst I was on the phone and I only had my foot on the brake pedal. The officer didn't say to switch off my engine. It was 2018, mind.
I get that whilst actually driving/creeping/manoeuvring or only with your foot on the brake you can't be faffing about with a phone, but it makes little sense to ban the manual use/handling of a phone in any way unless the engine is off.
However, if there's a specific part of the legislation or highway code that anyone knows of then it would be useful to learn of it.
That came about in London several years ago when a Met officer tapped my window to advise me to apply my handbrake whilst I was on the phone and I only had my foot on the brake pedal. The officer didn't say to switch off my engine. It was 2018, mind.
I get that whilst actually driving/creeping/manoeuvring or only with your foot on the brake you can't be faffing about with a phone, but it makes little sense to ban the manual use/handling of a phone in any way unless the engine is off.
However, if there's a specific part of the legislation or highway code that anyone knows of then it would be useful to learn of it.
Edited by captain.scarlet on Friday 28th October 01:54
Further edit: the various articles online mention that a phone can be used if a vehicle is 'safely parked'.
The question now is whether that means engine off (or equivalent in an EV).
If so then there'd surely be specific use of such words or encompassing it in the definition of 'safely parked'.
I'm therefore not convinced that you can't have your engine on, but you should have your handbrake on and be in neutral as a bare minimum. It would be for you to demonstrate how you were safely parked if prosecuted, and for the prosecution to demonstrate how you were not.
The question now is whether that means engine off (or equivalent in an EV).
If so then there'd surely be specific use of such words or encompassing it in the definition of 'safely parked'.
I'm therefore not convinced that you can't have your engine on, but you should have your handbrake on and be in neutral as a bare minimum. It would be for you to demonstrate how you were safely parked if prosecuted, and for the prosecution to demonstrate how you were not.
Sorry if this is a daft question but would that also mean that in London for example you would need to be in a parking bay. So for example, if sitting in a traffic jam, with carbon “park” or equivalent, engine off and handbrake on, you cannot use your phone?
I am just wondering if this is classed as “safely parked” as the car clearly cannot move at this point - but you are in a live traffic lane.
I wouldn’t do it - but just wondering. I let apple carplay do it’s thing in my cars.
Many thanks
I am just wondering if this is classed as “safely parked” as the car clearly cannot move at this point - but you are in a live traffic lane.
I wouldn’t do it - but just wondering. I let apple carplay do it’s thing in my cars.
Many thanks
JenAGH67 said:
Hi everyone,
Wondering if someone can provide clarification regarding the new(ish) mobile phone laws that have come in this year.
My questions are:
1. If you are stationary, pulled up on the side of the road with keys in ignition but not switched on, can you use phone?
2. If you have just gotten into your parked car which is parked on the side of the road and before setting off you use your phone to set music for example, is this okay and if so is it only okay if engine is off or not?
3. My confusion comes from the fact the articles states that a phone must not be used when the engine is ‘on’ however does this apply for ignition e.g radio, lights on some cars.
Thank you
And of course you can use it in all those scenarios and also whilst on the move providing A it is held in a fixed cradle and B it does not impact the safety of your driving in any way.Wondering if someone can provide clarification regarding the new(ish) mobile phone laws that have come in this year.
My questions are:
1. If you are stationary, pulled up on the side of the road with keys in ignition but not switched on, can you use phone?
2. If you have just gotten into your parked car which is parked on the side of the road and before setting off you use your phone to set music for example, is this okay and if so is it only okay if engine is off or not?
3. My confusion comes from the fact the articles states that a phone must not be used when the engine is ‘on’ however does this apply for ignition e.g radio, lights on some cars.
Thank you
Just look up the legalisation, it is quite clear
As the poster above says the legislation is key about use versus hand held use.
Regarding being "parked", there isn't a single determinant like engine on or off. Being parked is fairly obvious. Being stopped in a parking place, not in a flow of traffic and having to enter a (notional) flow of traffic and having to give way to that flow to get going.
Regarding being "parked", there isn't a single determinant like engine on or off. Being parked is fairly obvious. Being stopped in a parking place, not in a flow of traffic and having to enter a (notional) flow of traffic and having to give way to that flow to get going.
JenAGH67 said:
Hi everyone,
Wondering if someone can provide clarification regarding the new(ish) mobile phone laws that have come in this year.
My questions are:
1. If you are stationary, pulled up on the side of the road with keys in ignition but not switched on, can you use phone?
2. If you have just gotten into your parked car which is parked on the side of the road and before setting off you use your phone to set music for example, is this okay and if so is it only okay if engine is off or not?
3. My confusion comes from the fact the articles states that a phone must not be used when the engine is ‘on’ however does this apply for ignition e.g radio, lights on some cars.
Thank you
The specific law pertains to using a phone held in your hand.Wondering if someone can provide clarification regarding the new(ish) mobile phone laws that have come in this year.
My questions are:
1. If you are stationary, pulled up on the side of the road with keys in ignition but not switched on, can you use phone?
2. If you have just gotten into your parked car which is parked on the side of the road and before setting off you use your phone to set music for example, is this okay and if so is it only okay if engine is off or not?
3. My confusion comes from the fact the articles states that a phone must not be used when the engine is ‘on’ however does this apply for ignition e.g radio, lights on some cars.
Thank you
Ignore nonsense in articles on the internet.
Rule 149 of the Highway Code says:
Highway Code said:
You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times. You MUST NOT use a hand-held mobile phone, or similar device, capable of interactive communication (such as a tablet) for any purpose when driving or when supervising a learner driver. This ban covers all use of a hand-held interactive communication device and it applies even when the interactive communication capability is turned off or unavailable. You MUST NOT pick up the phone or similar device while driving to dial a number and then put it in the cradle for the duration of the conversation. You MUST NOT pick up and use your hand-held phone or similar device while stationary in traffic.
There is an exception to call 999 or 112 in a genuine emergency when it is unsafe or impractical to stop. There is also an exception if you are using a hand-held mobile phone or similar device to make a contactless payment at a contactless payment terminal. Your vehicle MUST be stationary, and the goods or services MUST be received at the same time as, or after, the contactless payment.
Never use a hand-held microphone when driving. Using hands-free equipment is also likely to distract your attention from the road. It is far safer not to use any telephone or similar device while you are driving or riding - find a safe place to stop first or use the voicemail facility and listen to messages later.
You may park your vehicle using a handheld remote control app or device. The app or device MUST be legal, and you should not put other people in danger when you use it."
The law does not require the driver to be "safely parked" although the HC does mention this; see emboldened part above. It's advisory, not mandatory. The law refers to driving.There is an exception to call 999 or 112 in a genuine emergency when it is unsafe or impractical to stop. There is also an exception if you are using a hand-held mobile phone or similar device to make a contactless payment at a contactless payment terminal. Your vehicle MUST be stationary, and the goods or services MUST be received at the same time as, or after, the contactless payment.
Never use a hand-held microphone when driving. Using hands-free equipment is also likely to distract your attention from the road. It is far safer not to use any telephone or similar device while you are driving or riding - find a safe place to stop first or use the voicemail facility and listen to messages later.
You may park your vehicle using a handheld remote control app or device. The app or device MUST be legal, and you should not put other people in danger when you use it."
Engine on or off is not determinative of the offence. There are other factors to take into account.
Edited by agtlaw on Friday 28th October 13:11
E-bmw said:
livinginasia said:
you are in a live traffic lane.
If you are "in a live traffic lane" surely, it can't also be possible to be "safely parked"?agtlaw said:
The specific law pertains to using a phone held in your hand.
Ignore nonsense in articles on the internet.
Rule 149 of the Highway Code says:
Engine on or off is not determinative of the offence. There are other factors to take into account.
Thank you ! Expert advice as always, really appreciate it. Ignore nonsense in articles on the internet.
Rule 149 of the Highway Code says:
Highway Code said:
You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times. You MUST NOT use a hand-held mobile phone, or similar device, capable of interactive communication (such as a tablet) for any purpose when driving or when supervising a learner driver. This ban covers all use of a hand-held interactive communication device and it applies even when the interactive communication capability is turned off or unavailable. You MUST NOT pick up the phone or similar device while driving to dial a number and then put it in the cradle for the duration of the conversation. You MUST NOT pick up and use your hand-held phone or similar device while stationary in traffic.
There is an exception to call 999 or 112 in a genuine emergency when it is unsafe or impractical to stop. There is also an exception if you are using a hand-held mobile phone or similar device to make a contactless payment at a contactless payment terminal. Your vehicle MUST be stationary, and the goods or services MUST be received at the same time as, or after, the contactless payment.
Never use a hand-held microphone when driving. Using hands-free equipment is also likely to distract your attention from the road. It is far safer not to use any telephone or similar device while you are driving or riding - find a safe place to stop first or use the voicemail facility and listen to messages later.
You may park your vehicle using a handheld remote control app or device. The app or device MUST be legal, and you should not put other people in danger when you use it."
The law does not require the driver to be "safely parked" although the HC does mention this; see emboldened part above. It's advisory, not mandatory. The law refers to driving.There is an exception to call 999 or 112 in a genuine emergency when it is unsafe or impractical to stop. There is also an exception if you are using a hand-held mobile phone or similar device to make a contactless payment at a contactless payment terminal. Your vehicle MUST be stationary, and the goods or services MUST be received at the same time as, or after, the contactless payment.
Never use a hand-held microphone when driving. Using hands-free equipment is also likely to distract your attention from the road. It is far safer not to use any telephone or similar device while you are driving or riding - find a safe place to stop first or use the voicemail facility and listen to messages later.
You may park your vehicle using a handheld remote control app or device. The app or device MUST be legal, and you should not put other people in danger when you use it."
Engine on or off is not determinative of the offence. There are other factors to take into account.
Edited by agtlaw on Friday 28th October 13:11
Driving is not defined in the RTA.
Driving will generally take its ordinary meaning, but there are cases that test the point. In a particular case, it was held that driving doesn’t cease just because a vehicle comes to a stop. Stopping, applying the handbrake, and switching the ignition off all form part of driving. However, in the context of mobile phone use, I’d be surprised if anyone is successfully prosecuted for stopping at the side of a road to use their phone, without applying the handbrake/switching the ignition off.
Driving will generally take its ordinary meaning, but there are cases that test the point. In a particular case, it was held that driving doesn’t cease just because a vehicle comes to a stop. Stopping, applying the handbrake, and switching the ignition off all form part of driving. However, in the context of mobile phone use, I’d be surprised if anyone is successfully prosecuted for stopping at the side of a road to use their phone, without applying the handbrake/switching the ignition off.
NikBartlett said:
Key in ignition ? Mine is keyless ignition, it just has to be in my pocket and has a big start / stop button. The handbrake is a small swiitch with a small light, not a long handle. How does PV plod define if I am parked if he walks past my vehicle ?
It’s a 1973 case. In your case, pressing the start/stop button would be the equivalent I’d guess. NikBartlett said:
Key in ignition ? Mine is keyless ignition, it just has to be in my pocket and has a big start / stop button. The handbrake is a small swiitch with a small light, not a long handle. How does PV plod define if I am parked if he walks past my vehicle ?
Citing the brake lights chap way up above, that's one way. If your brake lights are on then you are held on the service brake and you aren't parked. If you are on the parking brake only your lights won't be lit. A surprising number of people don't use their parking brakes on automatics when on the flat, in that case the gear selector will be visibly on P or if it's more modern and doesn't have a traditional gear selector the car will have applied the parking brake automatically.Assuming your car is fairly modern, if your DRLs are on, your car is "on" regardless of whether the engine is turning. If your car doesn't have DRLs it probably doesn't have start/stop either so the engine running is a giveaway.
I'm sure there are edge cases where the above doesn't apply but then you get a ticket and can bring the owner's manual to court to prove the brake lights of that specific model come on with the parking brake on and engine off unless you also flick the rear view mirror three times and switch the sun visor heater to max. Or you do what other owners of unusual cars do and avoid the argument by acknowledging that car comes with annoying idiosyncrasies that require more effort.
This is what's on the Met Police website:
It’s still illegal to use your hand held mobile device if you’re:
stopped at traffic lights
queuing in traffic
supervising a learner driver
You can use a hand-held phone when;
you’re safely parked and engine off
you need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-inform...
It’s still illegal to use your hand held mobile device if you’re:
stopped at traffic lights
queuing in traffic
supervising a learner driver
You can use a hand-held phone when;
you’re safely parked and engine off
you need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-inform...
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