Executor - never done this before!

[clockworks]

My aunt (dad's sister) passed away yesterday in a care home.

Mum has her will, and she told me last night that I am the executor. I'm her oldest surviving blood relative, as she had no children, and was widowed over 20 years ago. My dad was also named as an executor (that's why mum has the will), but he died 4 years ago.
My aunt has a couple of relatives on her late husband's side of the family, one lives 300 miles away, the other in Australia.

My sister is the manager of the care home where aunt was living, so she is taking care of the immediate paperwork with the doctor and funeral home. Hopefully she will be able to register the death too?

Mum and me both had power of attorney for financial affairs, and mum actually did all her banking, paying for care home fees, arranging spending money, keeping on top of pension income, etc. I believe that power of attorney is now void, so I will have to take over as executor?

I'll get more info when I see mum tomorrow, but I don't think I will necessarily need to apply for probate. There is no property involved, just bank accounts and personal effects. The total amount in bank current and savings accounts is likely to be around £20k. From what mum has said, aunt sometimes dipped below the amount where the local authority steps in and pays towards care home fees, then a few months later went back over the threshold. Once we have been through the accounts, is there an easy way to find out if probate is necessary?

I'm sure I will have more questions once I've actually read the will. So far, all I know is that I am the sole executor, she wished to be cremated, and I have to decide what to do with the ashes. When her husband died, she went with mum over to Dublin (where he grew up) to scatter the ashes. I'm thinking that's where her ashes should go?

[mac96]

There is useful information on line about probate - you may have already found this:

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/apply-for-...

I am part way through the process myself; in my case probate was needed and has just been granted. My main bit of advice is, if probate is needed, get on with it asap, because the probate service are comically slow and inefficient. They suggest on line a response time of 8 weeks- this is not the time taken to issue probate, it is the time to respond at all, so if they ask a question, another 8 week period starts from when you reply.
And they seem to have a reputation for wasting time by asking silly questions- on line I have seen reference s to them asking why you only sent alternate pages of a will, when it is their office that failed to scan all of it!

Yes, Power of Attorney dies with the person.

[misterblonde]

Just been through this with my Dad dying. Most solid advice would be to find a solicitor who can do it all for you - we got one for about £2k, not insignificant but meant no sleepless nights, all paperwork done, much easier and emotion removed from any dealings. Probate takes forever...nothing contentious in my dad's will (mum already dead) and it still took a year to get the money paid.

[mac96]

I'd agree that using a solicitor may reduce the stress levels, but with a relatively small estate could be expensive. It is certainly possible to do it yourself, and there is no guarantee that a solicitor will speed things up.

The half way house, is to do it yourself, but find a solicitor prepared to give advice if/where needed. I assume that might be a bit cheaper.

I have done it twice now, and the process itself is not complex; the issue is with probate delays and looking after/selling property, which seems not to be an issue for you OP?

[moktabe]

Definitely speak to a solicitor who deals with probate. They'll will give you an answer as to if it's needed.

Re probate being painfully slow, it isn't always the case. My mum died a few days before last Xmas, went to see a probate solicitor as probate was needed. Filled all the relevant paperwork in and it was all sent off. Probate was granted 3 weeks later.

[brman]

I have been executor twice and my wife once. None were complicated estates (although did involve selling houses).
I would say that, if you are not too emotionally involved and reasonably methodical then the process is pretty straightforward. The probate side of things is pretty straighforward and banks etc all have departments whos job it is to sort out accounts after death.
The only stressful bit for me was selling the houses, especially our old family home, but I don't think a solicitor would have made much difference to that.

Nothing wrong with using a solicitor but £2k is a lot of money for an estate that sounds like it is only worth £20k to start with. If you do use a solicitor I would make sure any benificiaries agree up front. I am not sure they can stop you but you don't want the hassle of arguing over costs later.

If you do it yourself a few of comments:
- There is loads of info online to help you. Just google "what to do when someone dies". Gov, citizens advice and most banks have info.
- Yes, power of attorney stops with death. However in reality it only really stops when the relevent institutions know about the death. So if there is an urgent need to (for example) pay some bills I would have no quarms in using the LPA to pay them before informing the banks. Be careful though, you don't want to do this if there is any chance someone might object as that could put you in hot water
- Most banks (but not all) I dealt with were suprisingly easy. A death certificate and a copy of a will was all I needed to clear out most accounts. A couple put a stop on the account as soon as I told them (over the phone, I could have been anyone!) but would not release funds without probate. But even the "difficult" ones were actually easy, just took longer.
- Keep a note of everything and be prepared to do some simple accounts. Also keep anyone relevent informed and make it clear that the timescales could be a year or more. Don't release any funds until you are sure everything is all sorted. You don't want to be going back to the beneficiaries and asking for some money back becuase you forgot some expense! Make it clear to everyone from the start that this will be the case so they don't go spending money they don't have yet.
- Finally, yes, the probate office can take a very long time. But if you are aware of this and not under pressure to get things done then that should not be stressful.
The one major issue I did have to deal with was one will was not properly witnessed.iirc the witnesses did not date it or put their address. This could have been a real issue, I had to find the witnesses and get sworn statement from them, but the probate service were surprisingly helpful on this (if slow to respond).

[Sheepshanks]

I did it for my mum who died in a care home - needed Probate due to amount of money she had, banks vary in how much they'll release without Probate. Probate itself took a month.

Dealing with everything was easy enough, if slightly laborious. It's easier if it's just one Executor - I helped my BIL when FIL died and the it gets messy dividing up tasks, especially if, as he was, the other person is quite cavalier about how they do things.

[48k]

Sorry to hear about your Aunt.
Apologies if you have discovered this already but the government has a service called Tell Us Once which notifies all the relevant government departments (eg. for pensions, driving licence, passport etc) of the death. When you register the death the Registrar will issue you a unique reference number which you enter in to the Tell Us Once service and you leave the rest to them. Saves you writing to myriad different government departments.

[clockworks]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Staying reasonably emotionally detached won't be an issue I think - we weren't that close, and she didn't have much quality of life over the last year or so. She was just over 90, so had a very good innings for someone with MS. She lived for at least 10 years more than any of us would've expected.

I've had a read of the .gov guides, and it all seems relatively straightforward, just a lot to do. I've got a feeling that I'll spend as much time going back and forth to a solicitor as I would if I just do it myself.

If it turns out that I don't need to get probate, how do I get the banks to release funds so that the beneficiaries can be paid once everything has been settled?

[brman]

clockworks said:

Thanks for the replies so far.

Staying reasonably emotionally detached won't be an issue I think - we weren't that close, and she didn't have much quality of life over the last year or so. She was just over 90, so had a very good innings for someone with MS. She lived for at least 10 years more than any of us would've expected.

I've had a read of the .gov guides, and it all seems relatively straightforward, just a lot to do. I've got a feeling that I'll spend as much time going back and forth to a solicitor as I would if I just do it myself.

That was my conclusion when I did my first one and I still think it is right. To be fair, I have never used a solicitor so perhaps don't have a comparison!

clockworks said:

If it turns out that I don't need to get probate, how do I get the banks to release funds so that the beneficiaries can be paid once everything has been settled?

I would think it does no harm in trying. If you think you don't need probate then just tell the banks that. At best they just releas the funds (likely), at worse they say no and force you to go through probate?
ETA: In my cases the high street banks were not problem. It was stuff like private pensions that took the effort.

[BertBert]

One test of whether you need probate is whether any of the banks involved will release the funds.

They have to be contacted anyway as the tell us once service doesn't tell them. Their bereavement depts are very helpful in my experience.

Say you don't need probate and ask them what they need to release the funds.

One word of caution about solicitors. I used one when my dad died and they were worse than useless. Whilst after a year they actually got the probate, they were inept in many regards.

I complained through their complaints process and that was crap so complained about the complaints process. As I say we got there in the end although I had to use a second firm to sort out one aspect they failed at. They gave me my fee back in the end and told me to ps off! Perhaps expecting competence was too much for them!!

When my mum goes any time now, I'll be doing it myself that's for sure!

[Sheepshanks]

clockworks said:

I've got a feeling that I'll spend as much time going back and forth to a solicitor as I would if I just do it myself.

My wife's Godfather had his solicitor as Executor and, while obviously they need to be given information to work with, you do feel like once you've got it together you might as well do it yourself. However we were very glad of him as Godfather's distant blood relatives tried to get involved (they had an Estate Agent at his house the day after he died!) and he was a useful buffer. He did a good job for a very reasonable fee. He did seem to go on holiday a lot though!

clockworks said:

If it turns out that I don't need to get probate, how do I get the banks to release funds so that the beneficiaries can be paid once everything has been settled?

I'm sure the limit was £5K when my dad died many years ago but I understand the Government has leaned on banks to be more flexible now. The Estates I've dealt wuth have always needed it - in your case it'll depend on the internal rules of the bank, but if it's £20K all in one bank that might be a bit marginal. It may also depend on how direct your relationship is to the deceased.

[Bubbs999]

I was executor of my late Aunts estate.
Little in terms of money, assets. the house being the main issue.
You can deal with the govt regarding council tax, Inland revenue, benefits, etc and dealing with utility providers, personal pensions etc was relatively painless.

I was named executor in her will. The first big isue I encountered was her bank - as soon as you notify them they will freeze the account and they insisted it must be close within 7 days, so I had to open a new seperate bank account in my own name which her money was transfered into and was used exclusively to pay anything due and refunds (eg, her pension was paid in automatically and could not be stopped staright away, so cheques had to be written to DWP to refund over-paid benefits, etc) Might depend upon the individual bank involved.

Definitely get a solicitor to deal with the Land registry if transfer of a property is involved. I tried dealing with them myself and they were an absolute nightmare. Every time I wrote / spoke to someone there I get a different answer and they are incredibly un-helpful. The whole thing is skewed to ensure you MUST engage a solicitor. I did employ a solicitor eventually but was very clear on what I what I wanted them to deal with and in my case it cost less than £300 in solicitors fees.

If the estate is more than £15k or if property is to be sold and the proceeds distributed to multiple family memebers, then let a solicitor deal with it all - seriously

I was close to my aunt, and found the hardest thing to deal with on a personal level was family
3 sons holding their hands out wanting to know when they were getting their money and unhappy with the way will was written.
Just keep all correspondence and make sure you keep receipts/letters confirming all money paid out from the estate, as you will need to produce a financial summary at the end.

Edited by Bubbs999 on Thursday 3rd November 13:04

Edited by Bubbs999 on Thursday 3rd November 13:05

Edited by Bubbs999 on Thursday 3rd November 13:06

[boombang]

misterblonde said:

Just been through this with my Dad dying. Most solid advice would be to find a solicitor who can do it all for you - we got one for about £2k, not insignificant but meant no sleepless nights, all paperwork done, much easier and emotion removed from any dealings. Probate takes forever...nothing contentious in my dad's will (mum already dead) and it still took a year to get the money paid.

For a simple case I would say the opposite - DIY, it's very simple.

Even my dad's very complex probate (ended up doing his parent's estates on the way through) I would have had to have done 90% of the work for the solicitor. Once submitted probate was granted in under a week (early 2021 I think) but having helped with other probate since it has taken ~2 months.

[brman]

Bubbs999 said:

...
I was named executor in her will. The first big isue I encountered was her bank - as soon as you notify them they will freeze the account and they insisted it must be close within 7 days, so I had to open a new seperate bank account in my own name which her money was transfered into and was used exclusively to pay anything due and refunds (eg, her pension was paid in automatically and could not be stopped staright away, so cheques had to be written to DWP to refund over-paid benefits, etc) Might depend upon the individual bank involved.
...

I have heard others say you need to open a seperate account. Some have even said it must be a special "executors" account. I would take this with a very large pinch of salt as I have found nothing that says you must do this other than heresay. In fact when I first had to do this I asked my bank about this and it became very clear it would a right PITA to set up, was expensive and was not common practice.
I can see the advantage of having a seperate account in that it stops you spending it by mistake but that is only really an issue if you are crap with money in general. Just make sure you document everything so no-one can accuse you of shady practices!
Yes, you might need to refund things like pensions or other benefits but that should not be a problem as you should have it sitting in your bank account!

All just my opinion of course, not legal advice

[Damp Logs]

TAKE OUT INSURANCE

if there is any dispute, you could waste it all on solicitors


I know

[carinaman]

Useful thread. Thank you.

[Yellow Lizud]

brman said:

Bubbs999 said:

...
I was named executor in her will. The first big isue I encountered was her bank - as soon as you notify them they will freeze the account and they insisted it must be close within 7 days, so I had to open a new seperate bank account in my own name which her money was transfered into and was used exclusively to pay anything due and refunds (eg, her pension was paid in automatically and could not be stopped staright away, so cheques had to be written to DWP to refund over-paid benefits, etc) Might depend upon the individual bank involved.
...

I have heard others say you need to open a seperate account. Some have even said it must be a special "executors" account. I would take this with a very large pinch of salt as I have found nothing that says you must do this other than heresay. In fact when I first had to do this I asked my bank about this and it became very clear it would a right PITA to set up, was expensive and was not common practice.
I can see the advantage of having a seperate account in that it stops you spending it by mistake but that is only really an issue if you are crap with money in general. Just make sure you document everything so no-one can accuse you of shady practices!
Yes, you might need to refund things like pensions or other benefits but that should not be a problem as you should have it sitting in your bank account!

All just my opinion of course, not legal advice

I can't understand why you'd want all the 'will' money and you own money muddled up. Seems crazy to me.

When my FiL died a couple of years ago the wife (an executor of the will) went into Barclays, they opened an executors account with the money from his normal account which was then closed.
I assume she needed the will, some ID, etc. No idea if it was a legal requirement but it made life so much simpler.

The account was used to pay any existing debt, bill, tax, funeral costs, solicitors, etc plus any incoming payments, while the bank statements listed all the ins and out. So simple, no need to document anything, and no-one could be accused of shady practices. Every thing was all in the bank statements.

A scanned copy was sent to the beneficiaries each month so they could see what was happening. Interim payment was made after a couple of months when there was a bit more of an idea of how much money was involved. About half the money was then paid out to each beneficiary a few months later, the remainder was then paid out when everything was sorted, about 9 months in total I think.

[valiant]

When contacting banks and utilities and whatnot, Google first to see if they have a direct line to their bereavement dept.

You will want to avoid trying to deal with the first line of a contact centre who may not be well versed in dealing with it but their bereavement dept will have heard and done it all before and will generally be pretty good and will steer you the right way and try and get it right first time.

Halifax group in particular were superb when I had to do it and nothing was too much trouble compared to the Post Office (who didn’t have a dedicated dept apparently) and were a shower of ste in comparison.

We used a solicitor for tax advice and whatnot but did the legwork ourselves and whilst it still cost a bit, the tax advice alone saved us multiples of his fee.

[valiant]

brman said:

Bubbs999 said:

...
I was named executor in her will. The first big isue I encountered was her bank - as soon as you notify them they will freeze the account and they insisted it must be close within 7 days, so I had to open a new seperate bank account in my own name which her money was transfered into and was used exclusively to pay anything due and refunds (eg, her pension was paid in automatically and could not be stopped staright away, so cheques had to be written to DWP to refund over-paid benefits, etc) Might depend upon the individual bank involved.
...

I have heard others say you need to open a seperate account. Some have even said it must be a special "executors" account. I would take this with a very large pinch of salt as I have found nothing that says you must do this other than heresay. In fact when I first had to do this I asked my bank about this and it became very clear it would a right PITA to set up, was expensive and was not common practice.
I can see the advantage of having a seperate account in that it stops you spending it by mistake but that is only really an issue if you are crap with money in general. Just make sure you document everything so no-one can accuse you of shady practices!
Yes, you might need to refund things like pensions or other benefits but that should not be a problem as you should have it sitting in your bank account!

All just my opinion of course, not legal advice

I just used a spare empty savings account in my name that everything got transferred to and when making payments would transfer to my current account amd out from there and it wasn’t seen as a bother.

I did, however, keep meticulous accounts of everything going in and out and each main beneficiary received a copy of the accounts at the end when paying out.