Immigrants coming into the country in your vehicle
Discussion
This is a real long shot but looking for some help for a family member, as they have a chance to contest a rather large fine.
My family member was travelling back from France in a hire van. A tailgate type van which locks from the inside and the last time they checked (30 miles before the border) there was no one in it.
They approach the French border. The search dogs were said to be barking, officials have a quick look around, stick a sticker on the windscreen and send them on their way.
They arrive at Dover and searched by UK officials to find a number of immigrants in the van. They are questioned for a long time and allowed continue home. ~4 month later they receive a large fine for their actions.
Obviously your vehicle is your responsibility - and they know this more than ever now. But to most people it may seem unfair.
Is there any advice on what may help with contesting this or just any advice at all?
Many thanks in advance.
My family member was travelling back from France in a hire van. A tailgate type van which locks from the inside and the last time they checked (30 miles before the border) there was no one in it.
They approach the French border. The search dogs were said to be barking, officials have a quick look around, stick a sticker on the windscreen and send them on their way.
They arrive at Dover and searched by UK officials to find a number of immigrants in the van. They are questioned for a long time and allowed continue home. ~4 month later they receive a large fine for their actions.
Obviously your vehicle is your responsibility - and they know this more than ever now. But to most people it may seem unfair.
Is there any advice on what may help with contesting this or just any advice at all?
Many thanks in advance.
gt_12345 said:
Check the relevant law and any CPS prosecution guidelines.
I'd be surprised if there's no mention of needing proof your relative had the intention to import them.
CPS will not be involved for this type of incident. Border Force will proceed using a civil penalty, not criminal. Expect up to £2000 per person brought into the UKI'd be surprised if there's no mention of needing proof your relative had the intention to import them.
They've been fined for their negligence.
If they'd been accused of willfully smuggling these people they would be facing a custody sentence.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dad-...
If they'd been accused of willfully smuggling these people they would be facing a custody sentence.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dad-...
Torquey said:
This is a real long shot but looking for some help for a family member, as they have a chance to contest a rather large fine.
My family member was travelling back from France in a hire van. A tailgate type van which locks from the inside and the last time they checked (30 miles before the border) there was no one in it.
They approach the French border. The search dogs were said to be barking, officials have a quick look around, stick a sticker on the windscreen and send them on their way.
They arrive at Dover and searched by UK officials to find a number of immigrants in the van. They are questioned for a long time and allowed continue home. ~4 month later they receive a large fine for their actions.
Obviously your vehicle is your responsibility - and they know this more than ever now. But to most people it may seem unfair.
Is there any advice on what may help with contesting this or just any advice at all?
Many thanks in advance.
Was the van empty of goods to leave room for them to get in?My family member was travelling back from France in a hire van. A tailgate type van which locks from the inside and the last time they checked (30 miles before the border) there was no one in it.
They approach the French border. The search dogs were said to be barking, officials have a quick look around, stick a sticker on the windscreen and send them on their way.
They arrive at Dover and searched by UK officials to find a number of immigrants in the van. They are questioned for a long time and allowed continue home. ~4 month later they receive a large fine for their actions.
Obviously your vehicle is your responsibility - and they know this more than ever now. But to most people it may seem unfair.
Is there any advice on what may help with contesting this or just any advice at all?
Many thanks in advance.
GranpaB said:
Was the van empty of goods to leave room for them to get in?
Jordie Barretts sock said:
So how did they get in? Was the van unlocked? Where did they stop? Because they must have stopped somewhere for the illegals to get in.
No advice, sorry. But it's not exactly an unknown occurance, nasty lesson learned I guess.
The van was pretty much empty at the time. They are moving furniture to a new house in France. No advice, sorry. But it's not exactly an unknown occurance, nasty lesson learned I guess.
They think they got in whilst stopped in traffic near the port. And in through an extremely small gap underneath the floor. This was concluded with help from UK border force. The van was locked at the rear. Not sure about the front doors.
Edited by Torquey on Monday 14th November 18:15
I have no words.
So the UK can't control immigration yet they can give punitive fines to poor sods in vans who have fallen victim to either desperate people or clever people.
Can't the border force investigate further in order to work out if your friend is innocent.
Sorry, obviously they can't because like the police, they are fekin useless.
So the UK can't control immigration yet they can give punitive fines to poor sods in vans who have fallen victim to either desperate people or clever people.
Can't the border force investigate further in order to work out if your friend is innocent.
Sorry, obviously they can't because like the police, they are fekin useless.
croyde said:
I have no words.
So the UK can't control immigration yet they can give punitive fines to poor sods in vans who have fallen victim to either desperate people or clever people.
Can't the border force investigate further in order to work out if your friend is innocent.
Sorry, obviously they can't because like the police, they are fekin useless.
So when they do something like they have to the OPs post thats not classed as doing something? So the UK can't control immigration yet they can give punitive fines to poor sods in vans who have fallen victim to either desperate people or clever people.
Can't the border force investigate further in order to work out if your friend is innocent.
Sorry, obviously they can't because like the police, they are fekin useless.
Anyway, OP have a look at [url=https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/33/section/34[/url]. There are defences.
Also if you haven't seen already.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/secure-your-vehicle-to...
OP your rellys may wish to tell Border Force to curb their enthusiasm:
"Under section 34(3) of the 1999 Act, where it is alleged a person is liable to a penalty under section 32 of that Act for bringing a clandestine entrant to the United Kingdom it is a defence to show that:
he did not know and had no reasonable grounds for suspecting that a clandestine entrant was, or might be,
concealed in the transporter;"
"Under section 34(3) of the 1999 Act, where it is alleged a person is liable to a penalty under section 32 of that Act for bringing a clandestine entrant to the United Kingdom it is a defence to show that:
he did not know and had no reasonable grounds for suspecting that a clandestine entrant was, or might be,
concealed in the transporter;"
I suppose everyone would say "but clearly it wasn't my fault", but it's ridiculous that my car gets completely emptied around 25% of the time and given a good rummaging 50% of the time, yet they can't poke their head in to a van for 5 seconds.
Wonder if the trick is to check your vehicle again after you get on the ferry/join the final train queue.
Wonder if the trick is to check your vehicle again after you get on the ferry/join the final train queue.
Torquey said:
They think they got in whilst stopped in traffic near the port. And in through an extremely small gap underneath the floor.
Maybe i’m not picturing the vehicle correctly but unless these are Lilliputian migrants - how small a gap are we talking about - and why is there a gap in the floor?!croyde said:
I have no words.
So the UK can't control immigration yet they can give punitive fines to poor sods in vans who have fallen victim to either desperate people or clever people.
Can't the border force investigate further in order to work out if your friend is innocent.
Sorry, obviously they can't because like the police, they are fekin useless.
It gets worse.So the UK can't control immigration yet they can give punitive fines to poor sods in vans who have fallen victim to either desperate people or clever people.
Can't the border force investigate further in order to work out if your friend is innocent.
Sorry, obviously they can't because like the police, they are fekin useless.
As a landlord you might think that renting your house to someone in this country it is safe to assume the tenant is here legally. But Border Farce are so ferking useless that the government requires landlords to check people are here legally and will fine the landlord if they let a property to someone that shouldn't be here.
Surely if Border Force actually did their job then it is they who should be penalised for not doing it, instead they shift the blame onto landlords?
No one else think it’s odd the clandestines knew to crawl underneath a hire van, stopped in traffic, on the chance there was a very small hole to access the inside of the van, and for more than one to then get through. Must have been their lucky day, but not for your friend I guess. Did your friend take photos of this hole and measure it? Was the hole freshly made or did it look like it’s been there for ages. Was it roughly created or a feature of the vehicle?
DavePanda said:
If it had a tail lift there's no physical way to get in the back without lowering the tail lift. And there's also no way to get in through the floor
Indeed, at a wild guess the driver let them in but forgot to charge more than £2000 per person so he could pay his fines and make a profit.Torquey said:
They think they got in whilst stopped in traffic near the port. And in through an extremely small gap underneath the floor. This was concluded with help from UK border force. The van was locked at the rear. Not sure about the front doors.
What type of van was this? Edited by Torquey on Monday 14th November 18:15
Vans don’t have holes in them big enough to get people in, that’s what the doors are for.
If it had a hatchback on it, and the door was opened in traffic, there’d have been some alert on the dash.
Unless they can come up with something more plausible as for how they got it, I can’t see them appealing such a fine successfully. If the van was modified with a hole in the metal floor of the van, and an old sheet of ply over it, well I can see them getting in via that, but that suggests a put up job.
Was the van rented in Uk or France?
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