Taking a British car to Germany long term?
Discussion
Hi all,
Does anyone have experience with running a British car long term in Germany? I'm moving there for work early next year (despite Brexit), and have seen online that you can have a British car there for six months.
Anyone have any experiences of trouble with having a British car there this long such as repeated trouble from police, fines etc? I'm planning on running something like a cheap E46 for a while until I settle down and buy a car there. The market seems to be very toppy in Germany.
Thanks
Anthony
Does anyone have experience with running a British car long term in Germany? I'm moving there for work early next year (despite Brexit), and have seen online that you can have a British car there for six months.
Anyone have any experiences of trouble with having a British car there this long such as repeated trouble from police, fines etc? I'm planning on running something like a cheap E46 for a while until I settle down and buy a car there. The market seems to be very toppy in Germany.
Thanks
Anthony
I had my UK car in Munich for a couple of years, didn't have any problems. Just make sure your insurance covers you. Problem is the annual MOT test - you'd have no choice of taking it back just for that.
I also declared it SORN - no point in paying UK road tax if the car isn't in the country.
I also declared it SORN - no point in paying UK road tax if the car isn't in the country.
As you say you can have the car in Germany for six months before they consider it an import. After that you'd be liable for import duties and potentially VAT, it'll also then need to be registered and taxed. I have no idea how they would check this, I assume it would be a random check against your arrival date if the authorities became suspicious. As long as you aren't being silly I really don't think anyone would be actively checking, it will be very low down on their list of priorities but if you're anything like me six months will pass quicker than you realise.
The German second hand car market is strong compared to the UK, but cars do generally keep their values better here. I considered bringing my car (an E46 coincidentally) when I moved here ten years ago but decided against it in the end. Do you speak German? You'll easily find a car dealer that will speak English but haggling in a different language isn't easy. The whole bureaucracy of registering a car will be tricky without decent German language skills. You can forget trying to sell a right hand drive car in German, unless it is something very unusual you'll just get nowhere.
As already said, you can forget trying to get it through TUV and make sure your insurance is all in order.
Where you moving to?
The German second hand car market is strong compared to the UK, but cars do generally keep their values better here. I considered bringing my car (an E46 coincidentally) when I moved here ten years ago but decided against it in the end. Do you speak German? You'll easily find a car dealer that will speak English but haggling in a different language isn't easy. The whole bureaucracy of registering a car will be tricky without decent German language skills. You can forget trying to sell a right hand drive car in German, unless it is something very unusual you'll just get nowhere.
As already said, you can forget trying to get it through TUV and make sure your insurance is all in order.
Where you moving to?
Edited by RedWhiteMonkey on Tuesday 20th December 11:05
Jim1064 said:
I had my UK car in Munich for a couple of years, didn't have any problems. Just make sure your insurance covers you. Problem is the annual MOT test - you'd have no choice of taking it back just for that.
I also declared it SORN - no point in paying UK road tax if the car isn't in the country.
Interesting. How long ago was that? Not too stressed about MOT, I'll pop back every 3 or 4 months probably.I also declared it SORN - no point in paying UK road tax if the car isn't in the country.
RedWhiteMonkey said:
As you say you can have the car in Germany for six months before they consider it an import. After that you'd be liable for import duties and potentially VAT, it'll also then need to be registered and taxed. I have no idea how they would check this, I assume it would be a random check against your arrival date if the authorities became suspicious. As long as you aren't being silly I really don't think anyone would be actively checking, it will be very low down on their list of priorities but if you're anything like me six months will pass quicker than you realise.
The German second hand car market is strong compared to the UK, but cars do generally keep their values better here. I considered bringing my car (an E46 coincidentally) when I moved here ten years ago but decided against it in the end. Do you speak German? You'll easily find a car dealer that will speak English but haggling in a different language isn't easy. The whole bureaucracy of registering a car will be tricky without decent German language skills. You can forget trying to sell a right hand drive car in German, unless it is something very unusual you'll just get nowhere.
As already said, you can forget trying to get it through TUV and make sure your insurance is all in order.
Where you moving to?
Ok cool. Thanks for the input. Maybe I'll push it a little longer than 6 months then. I basically just don't want to deal with the whole bureaucracy straight away. The German second hand car market is strong compared to the UK, but cars do generally keep their values better here. I considered bringing my car (an E46 coincidentally) when I moved here ten years ago but decided against it in the end. Do you speak German? You'll easily find a car dealer that will speak English but haggling in a different language isn't easy. The whole bureaucracy of registering a car will be tricky without decent German language skills. You can forget trying to sell a right hand drive car in German, unless it is something very unusual you'll just get nowhere.
As already said, you can forget trying to get it through TUV and make sure your insurance is all in order.
Where you moving to?
Edited by RedWhiteMonkey on Tuesday 20th December 11:05
Moving to Koblenz, so kind of near the Nurburgring...
flatsix.ant said:
Ok cool. Thanks for the input. Maybe I'll push it a little longer than 6 months then. I basically just don't want to deal with the whole bureaucracy straight away.
..
Your problem will be that if you do decide to keep it and do all the import stuff but have already gone over the six months you'll more than likely be penalised for that. Either:..
- use it for six months then get rid in the UK
- push it past the six months in Germany but don't declare it (take the risk) and then get rid of it back in the UK (no idea if this will cause problems in the UK)
- accept you want it for than six months and do the import within those first six months.
I quickly came to the conclusion that it was more hassle than it was worth to bring my existing car over. That was before Brexit, it has only gotten more complicated now. Personally, the hassle might be worth it for a car you already own if it is something special but I certainly wouldn't buy a UK car just to bring it over the Germany.
Aside from the above, there are instances where being in a right drive car in a left hand drive country is a disadvantage or just awkward (traffic barriers at car parks, etc. are just a pain unless you have a passenger with you).
fred bloggs said:
flatsix.ant said:
I basically just don't want to deal with the whole bureaucracy straight away.
LOL, you know what germany is like, yes? I did this in Munich about 20 years ago, had my Alfa Spider over there. I’m ly about 6 months though, so no hassles with MOT. Back in the day Guardian Royal Exchange used to do a 12 month green card policy.
If you’re bringing it back every 3-4 months does it matter? Won’t the clock “reset” each time?
If you’re bringing it back every 3-4 months does it matter? Won’t the clock “reset” each time?
I'm not sure how it works, if you bring the car back to the UK, does that reset the 6 month timer?
Does it make a difference if you become a German 'resident'?
It's not simple if you are foreign and want to drive your car in the UK:
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
I worked with a chap seconded for 18 months from head office in France to the UK, he used the 'worker based abroad' loophole, maybe Germany has something similar?
https://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individuals/Travel/...
It's a while since I worked in Germany but it gave me the impression that the UK tax system is a safe warm place by comparison.
Does it make a difference if you become a German 'resident'?
It's not simple if you are foreign and want to drive your car in the UK:
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
I worked with a chap seconded for 18 months from head office in France to the UK, he used the 'worker based abroad' loophole, maybe Germany has something similar?
https://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individuals/Travel/...
It's a while since I worked in Germany but it gave me the impression that the UK tax system is a safe warm place by comparison.
For 6 months you'll be fine. Infact you'll be fine for a lot longer than that *if* you stay out of trouble. Eventually if you get had up for parking / towing / speeding etc, then things will get stressful with your insurance and/or the local plod.
IME it'll also become a palava timing your trips with MOT tests etc., particularly since Brexit there tends to be more hassle at the ports and you might get hit with import taxes for anything you happen to be carrying at the time. (Having said that you can expect even more palava crossing with German plates.)
As you say, best thing is once you've got settled just get rid and buy something there - Ebay Kleinanzeigen is a good for buying a cheap shed.
Edit: before you do that, make sure you can get German insurance on your UK driving licence..since Brexit, swapping it for a German one isn't possible any more and you may have to re-take a test (in German and in Germany).
IME it'll also become a palava timing your trips with MOT tests etc., particularly since Brexit there tends to be more hassle at the ports and you might get hit with import taxes for anything you happen to be carrying at the time. (Having said that you can expect even more palava crossing with German plates.)
As you say, best thing is once you've got settled just get rid and buy something there - Ebay Kleinanzeigen is a good for buying a cheap shed.
Edit: before you do that, make sure you can get German insurance on your UK driving licence..since Brexit, swapping it for a German one isn't possible any more and you may have to re-take a test (in German and in Germany).
Edited by dan98 on Tuesday 20th December 14:35
OutInTheShed said:
I'm not sure how it works, if you bring the car back to the UK, does that reset the 6 month timer?
Does it make a difference if you become a German 'resident'?
It's not simple if you are foreign and want to drive your car in the UK:
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
I worked with a chap seconded for 18 months from head office in France to the UK, he used the 'worker based abroad' loophole, maybe Germany has something similar?
https://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individuals/Travel/...
It's a while since I worked in Germany but it gave me the impression that the UK tax system is a safe warm place by comparison.
It's a maximum of 6 months as a visitor in a 12 month rolling period, so it doesn't reset to a fresh 6 months if you return to the UK for a short period.Does it make a difference if you become a German 'resident'?
It's not simple if you are foreign and want to drive your car in the UK:
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
I worked with a chap seconded for 18 months from head office in France to the UK, he used the 'worker based abroad' loophole, maybe Germany has something similar?
https://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individuals/Travel/...
It's a while since I worked in Germany but it gave me the impression that the UK tax system is a safe warm place by comparison.
The vehicle has to be UK legal (have all taxes etc, MOT in the UK paid).
There are exemptions for longer than 6 month in certain circumstances.
Jim1064 said:
I also declared it SORN - no point in paying UK road tax if the car isn't in the country.
You need to be careful with that, some insurance companies will not provide cover for a car on SORN, or, may require the car to be fully UK compliant before cover for abroad is available.I worked in the South Netherlands for 13 month, the next village was the boarder for Germany. As others have said its 6 months and then you need to look into registering the car. I bought an old Polo to take over initially, then came home after 6 months and took back my Golf. Used the Golf for 7 months then came back to the UK for good before Brexit made work more difficult.
I got pulled by the police within the first few weeks of been there which made for an awkward encounter as I didn't have my passport at the time, and I couldn't find my insurance documents on my phone. They could have seized the car if they had wanted to but I think they took pity on me driving a knackered old car filled with personal belongings. And they recognized the company I was working for.
Other than that I didn't have any issues. I did think my Golf would attract a bit of attention as it isn't standard looking. Even managed a 2 week road trip through Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, France and back to the Neds without hassle, apart from a flash by a speed camera coming into Stuttgart. Never received a ticket though !
I got pulled by the police within the first few weeks of been there which made for an awkward encounter as I didn't have my passport at the time, and I couldn't find my insurance documents on my phone. They could have seized the car if they had wanted to but I think they took pity on me driving a knackered old car filled with personal belongings. And they recognized the company I was working for.
Other than that I didn't have any issues. I did think my Golf would attract a bit of attention as it isn't standard looking. Even managed a 2 week road trip through Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, France and back to the Neds without hassle, apart from a flash by a speed camera coming into Stuttgart. Never received a ticket though !
We have an apartment in Malaga, I've had a UK registered car there for years. I've brought our Spanish reg car into the UK for 11 months too. The authorities have very little way of knowing how long a car has been in a certain country for. Certainly in Spain they just don't care.
Many UK wrecks are driven there one way for transport, the streets of Malaga central are littered with them..
Many UK wrecks are driven there one way for transport, the streets of Malaga central are littered with them..
Draxindustries1 said:
We have an apartment in Malaga, I've had a UK registered car there for years. I've brought our Spanish reg car into the UK for 11 months too. The authorities have very little way of knowing how long a car has been in a certain country for. Certainly in Spain they just don't care.
Many UK wrecks are driven there one way for transport, the streets of Malaga central are littered with them..
Well of course you can get away with it, just like you might with anything else.Many UK wrecks are driven there one way for transport, the streets of Malaga central are littered with them..
There's what the correct & legal standpoint is, or there is what you can get away with.
Then there are what the consequences may be if you don't get away with it.
All things to be considered when you make your choice.
i remember back in the day on a number of occasions seizing motors on behalf of customs & excise following road traffic stops.
The burden of proof was on the owner when it came to customs.
Some had big bills.
I have been forced down this route due to French customs interpretation of their regulations.
Essentially you are allowed 6 months. The car MUST be road legal in the home country - so SORNing is not an option!
After the 6 months - then you have to import it, or decide to chance it. If you have evidence of travelling in and out of the host country then keep it, if you do not have this then again it is the flip of a coin.
If you intend to do it legally, you need to get the appropriate custom's form signed when the car first arrives. But getting it road legal in Germany is likely to more demanding than here in France. With the customs form, you will be liable to 20% VAT (TVA in France) unless the car is older than 30 years, when it becomes 5.5%.
Frankly the idea of long term ownership of a UK car in the EU is not the smartest approach - people do it and some get away with it. Most humorous story? UK expats around Limoges got pissed off with others 'winging it', so complained to the municipal police. They escalated it to the Gendarmerie and the vehicles were seized. Owners could not complain and they got off (minus cars) due to the lack of UK-EU comms post Brexit! All of this is allegedly.
Essentially you are allowed 6 months. The car MUST be road legal in the home country - so SORNing is not an option!
After the 6 months - then you have to import it, or decide to chance it. If you have evidence of travelling in and out of the host country then keep it, if you do not have this then again it is the flip of a coin.
If you intend to do it legally, you need to get the appropriate custom's form signed when the car first arrives. But getting it road legal in Germany is likely to more demanding than here in France. With the customs form, you will be liable to 20% VAT (TVA in France) unless the car is older than 30 years, when it becomes 5.5%.
Frankly the idea of long term ownership of a UK car in the EU is not the smartest approach - people do it and some get away with it. Most humorous story? UK expats around Limoges got pissed off with others 'winging it', so complained to the municipal police. They escalated it to the Gendarmerie and the vehicles were seized. Owners could not complain and they got off (minus cars) due to the lack of UK-EU comms post Brexit! All of this is allegedly.
Hi OP, I live in Germany and have done this. You will need a German TUV ( MOT ) test before you can register your car. In order to obtain this you must have European headlights and the Fog light working on the opposite side ( unless your car has two anyway ). You will also need winter tyres if you are arriving soon. You will also need to obtain a 'Certificate of Conformance' from the manufacturer in order for your car to be MOT tested before you take it for test.
Once you have obtained your German MOT and insurance you will need to take your documents to the local registration centre. They will take your UK V5 and notify the UK the vehicle has been exported. You will then be issued with German documents ( part one vehicle details and part two ownership document ). You will need proof of ownership as well.
You may also need a German driving license as I am not sure if UK licenses are valid anymore long term. This is also fairly straight forward. You surrender your UK license and they will issue you with a German one.
If you are staying long term you will also need an ID card 'AUFENHALTSTITEL' and to register yourself at the local town hall 'Rathaus' so you have proof of residency.
Hope this helps.
Once you have obtained your German MOT and insurance you will need to take your documents to the local registration centre. They will take your UK V5 and notify the UK the vehicle has been exported. You will then be issued with German documents ( part one vehicle details and part two ownership document ). You will need proof of ownership as well.
You may also need a German driving license as I am not sure if UK licenses are valid anymore long term. This is also fairly straight forward. You surrender your UK license and they will issue you with a German one.
If you are staying long term you will also need an ID card 'AUFENHALTSTITEL' and to register yourself at the local town hall 'Rathaus' so you have proof of residency.
Hope this helps.
AlpinaB5 said:
Hi OP, I live in Germany and have done this. You will need a German TUV ( MOT ) test before you can register your car. In order to obtain this you must have European headlights and the Fog light working on the opposite side ( unless your car has two anyway ). You will also need winter tyres if you are arriving soon. You will also need to obtain a 'Certificate of Conformance' from the manufacturer in order for your car to be MOT tested before you take it for test.
Once you have obtained your German MOT and insurance you will need to take your documents to the local registration centre. They will take your UK V5 and notify the UK the vehicle has been exported. You will then be issued with German documents ( part one vehicle details and part two ownership document ). You will need proof of ownership as well.
You may also need a German driving license as I am not sure if UK licenses are valid anymore long term. This is also fairly straight forward. You surrender your UK license and they will issue you with a German one.
If you are staying long term you will also need an ID card 'AUFENHALTSTITEL' and to register yourself at the local town hall 'Rathaus' so you have proof of residency.
Hope this helps.
Unfortunately there is nothing straightforward about any of this for a new arrival, particularly if the level of German isn't great.Once you have obtained your German MOT and insurance you will need to take your documents to the local registration centre. They will take your UK V5 and notify the UK the vehicle has been exported. You will then be issued with German documents ( part one vehicle details and part two ownership document ). You will need proof of ownership as well.
You may also need a German driving license as I am not sure if UK licenses are valid anymore long term. This is also fairly straight forward. You surrender your UK license and they will issue you with a German one.
If you are staying long term you will also need an ID card 'AUFENHALTSTITEL' and to register yourself at the local town hall 'Rathaus' so you have proof of residency.
Hope this helps.
Trying to convert a UK car to get it through the TUV can descend into a nightmare sourcing the right parts on certain vehicles, especially older ones, and the bureaucracy involved makes it a deal breaker for many people. (not that the OP wishes to do this anyway).
Also because of Brexit, you can't simply swap your UK for EU license anymore - you'll have to re-take your driving test in Germany (frankly, good luck with that!)
Of course residency is mandatory before trying to get the insurance and driving license - also much more time consuming and complex than it was pre-2016.
dan98 said:
Unfortunately there is nothing straightforward about any of this for a new arrival, particularly if the level of German isn't great.
Trying to convert a UK car to get it through the TUV can descend into a nightmare sourcing the right parts on certain vehicles, especially older ones, and the bureaucracy involved makes it a deal breaker for many people. (not that the OP wishes to do this anyway).
Also because of Brexit, you can't simply swap your UK for EU license anymore - you'll have to re-take your driving test in Germany (frankly, good luck with that!)
Of course residency is mandatory before trying to get the insurance and driving license - also much more time consuming and complex than it was pre-2016.
Take care with words like 'residency'.Trying to convert a UK car to get it through the TUV can descend into a nightmare sourcing the right parts on certain vehicles, especially older ones, and the bureaucracy involved makes it a deal breaker for many people. (not that the OP wishes to do this anyway).
Also because of Brexit, you can't simply swap your UK for EU license anymore - you'll have to re-take your driving test in Germany (frankly, good luck with that!)
Of course residency is mandatory before trying to get the insurance and driving license - also much more time consuming and complex than it was pre-2016.
Having a 'residence permit'
Being tax resident
Being ordinarily resident
are different things and important distinctions.
There are companies/traders who import UK bikes and cars into Germany, it's not impossible.
But as in the UK, it's probably only worthwhile for classics or something special.
FWIW, when I worked in Germany, I got by OK without a car for a while, public transport to work, trains for weekend tourism, hired a car a few times.
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