Royal Mail strikes and delayed NIPS

[Arthur59765]

Don’t respond if received late…

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegrap...

Great news, also ignore any brakists posting their outrage or other usual misinformation below…

[Boosted LS1]

Years ago I had one arrive well out of time. It had gone to a neighbours house first. :-). Result.

[Nimby]

Arthur59765 said:

Don’t respond if received late…

Bad advice - the Registered Keeper must respond to the S.172 notice to name the driver however late it's received, or risk 6 points. However if the driver can prove the first NIP was late, that's a defence to the charge. Proving late delivery is the problem though...

[Dingu]

Nimby said:

Arthur59765 said:

Don’t respond if received late…

Bad advice - the Registered Keeper must respond to the S.172 notice to name the driver however late it's received, or risk 6 points. However if the driver can prove the first NIP was late, that's a defence to the charge. Proving late delivery is the problem though...

But Arthur assured us any dissenting views were misinformation by Brakeists

[agtlaw]

Arthur59765 said:

Don’t respond if received late…

Terrible 'advice.' Respond with a cover letter.

The article incorrectly states the legal test. There's a legal burden on the defendant to prove (on a balance of probabilities) that the service requirements were not met. The author of the article says evidential burden only.

[Aretnap]

Arthur59765 said:

Don’t respond if received late…

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

[agtlaw]

Aretnap said:

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

Quite; see DPP v Grant and others [2001] EWHC 1114 (Admin)

[martinbiz]

Arthur59765 said:

Don’t respond if received late…

also ignore any brakists posting their outrage or other usual misinformation below…

Oh the irony!

[numtumfutunch]

I know a bit about this having a 'moment' on a "smart" motorway just before the mail strikes and festive bank holidays

My own research concluded it was tough nuts and Id be sucking it up

Fortunately my nemesis was either faulty or not connected to Cyberdyne Systems

Im naturally assuming that 28 days is now safe........

Cheers

[Porkupine]

Pretty sure the rules state that it must be 'sent' within two weeks, not received. So I wouldn't be relying on this article. Would have thought the Telegraph would be better researched. Unless rules have changed since I last looked at this.

[SS2.]

Porkupine said:

Pretty sure the rules state that it must be 'sent' within two weeks, not received. So I wouldn't be relying on this article. Would have thought the Telegraph would be better researched. Unless rules have changed since I last looked at this.

Subject to a couple of statutory exemptions, if correct service is to be effected by 1st class post, the notice must be posted in such time that, in the normal course of post, it would be delivered within 14 days of the alleged offence.

The normal course of first class post is defined as two business days after posting.

A notice posted in good time via 1st class mail will be deemed to have been served in accordance with statutory requirements, unless the contrary is proven.

This means that a notice posted via 1st class mail on days 13 or 14 couldn't possibly be served in time.

[caziques]

Porkupine said:

Pretty sure the rules state that it must be 'sent' within two weeks, not received. So I wouldn't be relying on this article. Would have thought the Telegraph would be better researched. Unless rules have changed since I last looked at this.

Incorrect.

If you can prove a NIP is received outside 14 days, then you should state who the driver is (to avoid a s172 prosecution) but you cannot be found guilty of speeding - but it may have to be argued in court

see Gidden
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff73c60d0...

[BertBert]

But if sent my recorded or registered post within the time, there is no rebuttal of it is then late?

[SS2.]

BertBert said:

But if sent by recorded or registered post within the time, there is no rebuttal of it is then late?

Correct.

[speedking31]

Incorrect statement:

As a Royal Mall strike is not the 'normal course of post' then it is a bad thing as any late receipt (unless the letter was dated very late) can be blamed on the strike and be legitimate.

Withdrawn.

Edited by speedking31 on Sunday 22 January 15:55

[SS2.]

speedking31 said:

As a Royal Mall strike is not the 'normal course of post' then it is a bad thing as any late receipt (unless the letter was dated very late) can be blamed on the strike and be legitimate.

Not the case at all.

Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside 2009 said:

21. I appreciate that this construction of the legislation may create problems for the police and prosecuting authorities, particularly when the postal service is on strike with the inevitable delays in delivery. The authorities must then adopt other means of warning, provided by section 1, if they are to avoid the risk of late delivery.

Edited by SS2. on Sunday 22 January 11:27

[agtlaw]

speedking31 said:

As a Royal Mall strike is not the 'normal course of post' then it is a bad thing as any late receipt (unless the letter was dated very late) can be blamed on the strike and be legitimate.

Wrong; see Gidden at paragraph 21.

[Nimby]

BertBert said:

But if sent my recorded or registered post within the time, there is no rebuttal of it is then late?

AFAIK NIPs are always sent 1st class, never recorded/signed-for. Proof of late delivery would need a statement from your postman or, for a business, a robust receipt process as in the Beckham case. Without either you'd have to be very persuasive.

[BertBert]

Nimby said:

BertBert said:

But if sent my recorded or registered post within the time, there is no rebuttal of it is then late?

AFAIK NIPs are always sent 1st class, never recorded/signed-for. Proof of late delivery would need a statement from your postman or, for a business, a robust receipt process as in the Beckham case. Without either you'd have to be very persuasive.

Yes indeed, but the senders of NIPs might choose to use recorded or registered and then if it gets there late, you would have no rebuttal. Hence the quote up the way in the thread saying they'd have to use a different method other than first class post if they wished to have secured service of the NIP with the postal strikes on.