TwigtheWonderKid's outrageous tales
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I could tell you tales of outrageous claims avoidance scams they people pulled in the 80s, that back then won the individual employee promotion, but today would sent them to jail.
Didn't want to derail the other thread but this sounds juicy, any chance you could give us some examples? Suitably obfuscated to stay on right side of libel laws if necessary...I can tell you one.
27 year old man presents to his doctor with a six week history of dry cough, otherwise feels fine. Due to the odd presentation he gets sent for an xray and pretty much the worst possible becomes true. And out of the blue gets a consultant telling him he has three months to live. His world has fallen apart in the space of a week.
He is married to a charming and lovely 23 year old and they have two children and a big mortgage. Luckily he has life insurance through work which is very generous. It would pay off the mortgage and keep his wife and children, if not comfortable, then above water. The husband himself fills in the forms for the claim to get it ready for his wife. Utterly heart-breaking.
The insurance company panics because this chap has led a blameless life, regular exerciser, sport and non smoker on his application. They wait until his death which happens almost to the day six weeks after his diagnosis. His demise is rapid and terrible for all around. The funeral happens, the wife is requiring support from all those around her, and goes through quite a dark patch of suicidal thoughts.
Within four days of the death she gets a letter from the insurance company saying they are investigating the claim, but if she doesn't want them to investigate it, and simply pay out, they would offer her £5000 for a full and final settlement. She bought it to me and I told her to rip it up.
She gets a number of phone calls over the next week offering her the same. When she refuses her doctor gets letters enquiring about his fitness and lifestyle choices. His doctor writes a glowing letter stating he was a model of health prior to the diagnosis. His doctor then gets a request for the whole of the patients medical notes to be sent to them for analysis.
Months later and the wife is struggling financially. She has no money, the bank are suggesting she downsize and pressuring her regarding payments on mortgages. She has no income so cannot move house, she is writing letters to creditors and borrowing money from family to make ends meet. The children have been pulled from their schools and now staying with grandparents. Mum is struggling with her bereavement.
Then the crashing blow letter comes from the life insurance company. We have reviewed the notes of your husband and realised he is a smoker and therefore we are refusing your claim in total.
She makes an emergency appointment to talk to her doctor as she knows her husband has never smoked. The doctor writes to the insurance company as he is of the same opinion and feels this is a mistake.
The insurance write back to point out that when the notes were reviewed it was found out that the husband was bought to the doctor aged seven, as he had a coughing fit after trying a cigar that his grandfather was smoking and left on an armrest at Christmas.
She threatened the insurance company with litigation and they said that they would fight her in court but if she accepted their findings they would get her a good will payment of £5K. She felt she had no choice but to accepted it. I doubt she could have fought them even if she wanted to.
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
27 year old man presents to his doctor with a six week history of dry cough, otherwise feels fine. Due to the odd presentation he gets sent for an xray and pretty much the worst possible becomes true. And out of the blue gets a consultant telling him he has three months to live. His world has fallen apart in the space of a week.
He is married to a charming and lovely 23 year old and they have two children and a big mortgage. Luckily he has life insurance through work which is very generous. It would pay off the mortgage and keep his wife and children, if not comfortable, then above water. The husband himself fills in the forms for the claim to get it ready for his wife. Utterly heart-breaking.
The insurance company panics because this chap has led a blameless life, regular exerciser, sport and non smoker on his application. They wait until his death which happens almost to the day six weeks after his diagnosis. His demise is rapid and terrible for all around. The funeral happens, the wife is requiring support from all those around her, and goes through quite a dark patch of suicidal thoughts.
Within four days of the death she gets a letter from the insurance company saying they are investigating the claim, but if she doesn't want them to investigate it, and simply pay out, they would offer her £5000 for a full and final settlement. She bought it to me and I told her to rip it up.
She gets a number of phone calls over the next week offering her the same. When she refuses her doctor gets letters enquiring about his fitness and lifestyle choices. His doctor writes a glowing letter stating he was a model of health prior to the diagnosis. His doctor then gets a request for the whole of the patients medical notes to be sent to them for analysis.
Months later and the wife is struggling financially. She has no money, the bank are suggesting she downsize and pressuring her regarding payments on mortgages. She has no income so cannot move house, she is writing letters to creditors and borrowing money from family to make ends meet. The children have been pulled from their schools and now staying with grandparents. Mum is struggling with her bereavement.
Then the crashing blow letter comes from the life insurance company. We have reviewed the notes of your husband and realised he is a smoker and therefore we are refusing your claim in total.
She makes an emergency appointment to talk to her doctor as she knows her husband has never smoked. The doctor writes to the insurance company as he is of the same opinion and feels this is a mistake.
The insurance write back to point out that when the notes were reviewed it was found out that the husband was bought to the doctor aged seven, as he had a coughing fit after trying a cigar that his grandfather was smoking and left on an armrest at Christmas.
She threatened the insurance company with litigation and they said that they would fight her in court but if she accepted their findings they would get her a good will payment of £5K. She felt she had no choice but to accepted it. I doubt she could have fought them even if she wanted to.
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
Somewhatfoolish said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I could tell you tales of outrageous claims avoidance scams they people pulled in the 80s, that back then won the individual employee promotion, but today would sent them to jail.
Didn't want to derail the other thread but this sounds juicy, any chance you could give us some examples? Suitably obfuscated to stay on right side of libel laws if necessary...So no personal injury payment, for a teenage girl with serious facial injuries and arm injuries.
This kind of thing was commonplace, not with decent mainstream companies like Norwich Union (Aviva now) and other big names, but with Lloyd's motor syndicates. They were absolute scum.
This is why our NHS healthcare system is a saving grace. If we went to an American health insurance scheme, there would be a lot of people struggling to pay medical bills. Insurance companies will avoid paying out if they can, any pre existing condition or working environment will make the health insurance void.
julian64 said:
I can tell you one.
27 year old man presents to his doctor with a six week history of dry cough, otherwise feels fine. Due to the odd presentation he gets sent for an xray and pretty much the worst possible becomes true. And out of the blue gets a consultant telling him he has three months to live. His world has fallen apart in the space of a week.
He is married to a charming and lovely 23 year old and they have two children and a big mortgage. Luckily he has life insurance through work which is very generous. It would pay off the mortgage and keep his wife and children, if not comfortable, then above water. The husband himself fills in the forms for the claim to get it ready for his wife. Utterly heart-breaking.
The insurance company panics because this chap has led a blameless life, regular exerciser, sport and non smoker on his application. They wait until his death which happens almost to the day six weeks after his diagnosis. His demise is rapid and terrible for all around. The funeral happens, the wife is requiring support from all those around her, and goes through quite a dark patch of suicidal thoughts.
Within four days of the death she gets a letter from the insurance company saying they are investigating the claim, but if she doesn't want them to investigate it, and simply pay out, they would offer her £5000 for a full and final settlement. She bought it to me and I told her to rip it up.
She gets a number of phone calls over the next week offering her the same. When she refuses her doctor gets letters enquiring about his fitness and lifestyle choices. His doctor writes a glowing letter stating he was a model of health prior to the diagnosis. His doctor then gets a request for the whole of the patients medical notes to be sent to them for analysis.
Months later and the wife is struggling financially. She has no money, the bank are suggesting she downsize and pressuring her regarding payments on mortgages. She has no income so cannot move house, she is writing letters to creditors and borrowing money from family to make ends meet. The children have been pulled from their schools and now staying with grandparents. Mum is struggling with her bereavement.
Then the crashing blow letter comes from the life insurance company. We have reviewed the notes of your husband and realised he is a smoker and therefore we are refusing your claim in total.
She makes an emergency appointment to talk to her doctor as she knows her husband has never smoked. The doctor writes to the insurance company as he is of the same opinion and feels this is a mistake.
The insurance write back to point out that when the notes were reviewed it was found out that the husband was bought to the doctor aged seven, as he had a coughing fit after trying a cigar that his grandfather was smoking and left on an armrest at Christmas.
She threatened the insurance company with litigation and they said that they would fight her in court but if she accepted their findings they would get her a good will payment of £5K. She felt she had no choice but to accepted it. I doubt she could have fought them even if she wanted to.
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
That's the sort of thing someone gets killed over. This kind of thing27 year old man presents to his doctor with a six week history of dry cough, otherwise feels fine. Due to the odd presentation he gets sent for an xray and pretty much the worst possible becomes true. And out of the blue gets a consultant telling him he has three months to live. His world has fallen apart in the space of a week.
He is married to a charming and lovely 23 year old and they have two children and a big mortgage. Luckily he has life insurance through work which is very generous. It would pay off the mortgage and keep his wife and children, if not comfortable, then above water. The husband himself fills in the forms for the claim to get it ready for his wife. Utterly heart-breaking.
The insurance company panics because this chap has led a blameless life, regular exerciser, sport and non smoker on his application. They wait until his death which happens almost to the day six weeks after his diagnosis. His demise is rapid and terrible for all around. The funeral happens, the wife is requiring support from all those around her, and goes through quite a dark patch of suicidal thoughts.
Within four days of the death she gets a letter from the insurance company saying they are investigating the claim, but if she doesn't want them to investigate it, and simply pay out, they would offer her £5000 for a full and final settlement. She bought it to me and I told her to rip it up.
She gets a number of phone calls over the next week offering her the same. When she refuses her doctor gets letters enquiring about his fitness and lifestyle choices. His doctor writes a glowing letter stating he was a model of health prior to the diagnosis. His doctor then gets a request for the whole of the patients medical notes to be sent to them for analysis.
Months later and the wife is struggling financially. She has no money, the bank are suggesting she downsize and pressuring her regarding payments on mortgages. She has no income so cannot move house, she is writing letters to creditors and borrowing money from family to make ends meet. The children have been pulled from their schools and now staying with grandparents. Mum is struggling with her bereavement.
Then the crashing blow letter comes from the life insurance company. We have reviewed the notes of your husband and realised he is a smoker and therefore we are refusing your claim in total.
She makes an emergency appointment to talk to her doctor as she knows her husband has never smoked. The doctor writes to the insurance company as he is of the same opinion and feels this is a mistake.
The insurance write back to point out that when the notes were reviewed it was found out that the husband was bought to the doctor aged seven, as he had a coughing fit after trying a cigar that his grandfather was smoking and left on an armrest at Christmas.
She threatened the insurance company with litigation and they said that they would fight her in court but if she accepted their findings they would get her a good will payment of £5K. She felt she had no choice but to accepted it. I doubt she could have fought them even if she wanted to.
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Kaloyev
although I'm not saying the atc in the case was in the wrong. Not sure I'd ever feel too comfortable if I'd ever made that kind of claims decision and I hope that's the case.
julian64 said:
I can tell you one.
....<snip>....
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
If you don't mind my asking - how do you know about this and when did it happen? Terrible story but it has the ring of an urban myth about it.....<snip>....
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
A quick google suggests that the insurance ombudsman has existed in the UK since 1981.
Well I never knew Norwich Union were now Aviva (all our house etc and cars are with them) - but I’ve just now noticed their logo.
I and a lot of bikers who started in the ‘80s and before will remember their “Rider Policies” - basically you insured bikes in capacity bands and it didn’t matter what it was or what you did etc. it cost the same.
I remember mopeds were £17.50 a year and 125s (like my RD125LC) were £48. A year. Then they stopped doing them.
Anyway I am digressing…
I and a lot of bikers who started in the ‘80s and before will remember their “Rider Policies” - basically you insured bikes in capacity bands and it didn’t matter what it was or what you did etc. it cost the same.
I remember mopeds were £17.50 a year and 125s (like my RD125LC) were £48. A year. Then they stopped doing them.
Anyway I am digressing…
I was on a graduate fast track scheme for an Insurer which required me to work in each department for 2-3 months at a time.
This was a non-motoring one, but it made me laugh: We covered a sex shop for business/property/liability cover. A claim came in from them - customer bought a penis enlarger/pump and during use claimed it had damaged the blood vessels in his penis. Part of the claim was that he was no longer able to have conjugals with his wife. I read it out in the office, and the manager immediately said: "I don't care about liability, that's going all the way to Court so we can name and shame!" The guy unfortunately never took us to Court.
This was a non-motoring one, but it made me laugh: We covered a sex shop for business/property/liability cover. A claim came in from them - customer bought a penis enlarger/pump and during use claimed it had damaged the blood vessels in his penis. Part of the claim was that he was no longer able to have conjugals with his wife. I read it out in the office, and the manager immediately said: "I don't care about liability, that's going all the way to Court so we can name and shame!" The guy unfortunately never took us to Court.
Bennet said:
julian64 said:
I can tell you one.
....<snip>....
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
If you don't mind my asking - how do you know about this and when did it happen? Terrible story but it has the ring of an urban myth about it.....<snip>....
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
A quick google suggests that the insurance ombudsman has existed in the UK since 1981.
Bennet said:
julian64 said:
I can tell you one.
....<snip>....
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
If you don't mind my asking - how do you know about this and when did it happen? Terrible story but it has the ring of an urban myth about it.....<snip>....
I'm pretty sure someone at the insurance company would have been promoted over that.
A quick google suggests that the insurance ombudsman has existed in the UK since 1981.
Edited by J1990 on Tuesday 31st January 16:04
That's very true, I had forgotten about the brief first person part of the story when I asked the question.
Assuming that Julian was born in 1964, (and was at least 17 years old at the time of the incident), you’d have hoped the ombudsman would have had something to say about a case like this.
Assuming that Julian was born in 1964, (and was at least 17 years old at the time of the incident), you’d have hoped the ombudsman would have had something to say about a case like this.
Worked for an insurance company briefly, about 3 weeks, I can't actually remember their name but they weren't around for long! We would arrange visits to potential customers to sell them overpriced life insurance policy's, and various 'investment opportunities'. We'd insist that wives were present at these visits. One of the lines we were told to use if a husband was a bit reluctant to sign was " Well Mr Smith, if you don't insure yourself, you obviously don't care that much about your wife and children!" 
Cue the wife looking daggers and the husband quickly signing the forms,(usually)
I decided that kind of selling wasn't for me and left to sell German Wines by giving tastings, a much more gentle kind of direct sales! That one was good fun!
Cue the wife looking daggers and the husband quickly signing the forms,(usually)I decided that kind of selling wasn't for me and left to sell German Wines by giving tastings, a much more gentle kind of direct sales! That one was good fun!
Short Grain said:
Worked for an insurance company briefly, about 3 weeks, I can't actually remember their name but they weren't around for long! We would arrange visits to potential customers to sell them overpriced life insurance policy's, and various 'investment opportunities'. We'd insist that wives were present at these visits. One of the lines we were told to use if a husband was a bit reluctant to sign was " Well Mr Smith, if you don't insure yourself, you obviously don't care that much about your wife and children!" Cue the wife looking daggers and the husband quickly signing the forms,(usually)
I decided that kind of selling wasn't for me and left to sell German Wines by giving tastings, a much more gentle kind of direct sales! That one was good fun!
I miss read that as German wives,gave it a whole different meaning. Cue the wife looking daggers and the husband quickly signing the forms,(usually)I decided that kind of selling wasn't for me and left to sell German Wines by giving tastings, a much more gentle kind of direct sales! That one was good fun!
Bennet said:
A quick google suggests that the insurance ombudsman has existed in the UK since 1981.
But pre legislation and consumer protections built in as they are now, all they could deal with were contract Ts & Cs. It was basically useless. It got worse thru the 80s when Thatcher deregulated everything, when there wasn't much regulation anyway. Then anyone could sell insurance, and did. Supermarkets and the like all got in on it, and important policies were sold by checkout staff who understood no more than the customer about what they were selling. It was a complete mess. Eventually, it began to get more regulated. These days, whilst we don't have the excellence of 70s and 80s decent insurers like NU/Aviva, Commercial Union, Cornhill, big names like that, (the likes of Aviva are still good, but you cannot discuss your car insurance pricing with an actual human),we also don't have the sharks. It's actually very hard for insurers to throw out claims today. I think it's something like 90% of claims are paid in full, 8% are paid in part, and 2% aren't paid out. And of the 2% not paid out, most of those are people claiming for stuff that they just aren't covered for, as per their policy documents.
Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Tuesday 31st January 17:06
Mr Miata said:
This is why our NHS healthcare system is a saving grace. If we went to an American health insurance scheme, there would be a lot of people struggling to pay medical bills. Insurance companies will avoid paying out if they can, any pre existing condition or working environment will make the health insurance void.
Insurance based healthcare systems certainly have their problems, and I'm not advocating for them, but this is not true.Even under the US system (post-Obamacare) health insurance companies are prohibited from excluding pre-existing conditions from coverage or charging customers extra as a result of pre-existing conditions. The same is also true of the many European countries which have insurance based systems (there are of course more than two countries in the world where citizens need healthcare; the US and the UK are not the only models).
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Bennet said:
A quick google suggests that the insurance ombudsman has existed in the UK since 1981.
But pre legislation and consumer protections built in as they are now, all they could deal with were contract Ts & Cs. It was basically useless. It got worse thru the 80s when Thatcher deregulated everything, when there wasn't much regulation anyway. Then anyone could sell insurance, and did. Supermarkets and the like all got in on it, and important policies were sold by checkout staff who understood no more than the customer about what they were selling. It was a complete mess. Eventually, it began to get more regulated. These days, whilst we don't have the excellence of 70s and 80s decent insurers like NU/Aviva, Commercial Union, Cornhill, big names like that, (the likes of Aviva are still good, but you cannot discuss your car insurance pricing with an actual human),we also don't have the sharks. It's actually very hard for insurers to throw out claims today. I think it's something like 90% of claims are paid in full, 8% are paid in part, and 2% aren't paid out. And of the 2% not paid out, most of those are people claiming for stuff that they just aren't covered for, as per their policy documents.
Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Tuesday 31st January 17:06
Unreal said:
Exactly. It was like the Wild West. My own example being working for a traditional building society. For people under the age of 40, that means an organisation that had half a dozen zero risk saving accounts and a couple of repayment mortgages. They didn't sell anything else. Then they teamed up with the insurance sector, became 'banks' and we had endowment mortgages being pushed on every borrower, the joke of self-cert mortgages, foreign currency and all sorts of insurance being sold over the counter and shark like financial advisors being given access to the details of innocent often elderly customers who trusted the old Building Society. There was probably car insurance too, sold and delivering a commission/backhander. They would have sold fruit and veg if they could.
Yes, it did get totally out of control. I got my first job with an insurance company in 1977 and remember visiting my bank and being pestered to take out insurance with them. I always refused - I used to get staff discount back then!
Back then my employer (Cornhill) required you to earn a protected NCD by going 7 years without a claim, but didn't have to pay extra for it, didn't lose any discount if you had 1 claim or get your premium loaded.
Windscreen cover had no excess, Third Party claims had no financial limit - happy days.
As time went by it all went downhill to where we are now - I was glad to leave the industry in 2010.
When I was working in claims my boss gave me a tip for getting your car fixed if you had TPF&T cover. Pay a mate to rent a van for a day and crash into your car then claim against the van insurance. No idea if he spoke from experience!
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