Anyone been on an MS Teams Small Claims Track Hearing?
Discussion
Someone is taking my co. through the Small claims process and I've had a letter giving me a date, and telling me it'll be on MS Teams. They asked for my email address. That's it. The rest of the "instructions" are completely useless and tell me nothing, other that they won't be in contact again until the hearing!
All the instructions say is "when you join you will be the "MS Teams Lobby (waiting area) until the hearing starts. That's it! Bearing in mind I'll lose the case by default if I don't "attend" it's pretty bloody shambolic.
How do they contact me? does the fact MS teams uses the email I've given them mean they'll be able to send a meeting request to my application? (desktop) - something will pop up saying I'm being contacted? I've never used Teams before. And their isn't a "lobby" that I can see. It just opens (the application) on a chat tab.
I have of course googled this but the only MS Teams example is an Australian one, and laughably, the UK Gov websites say MS Teams is no longer used in the UK!
Quote
"If your hearing is happening by video, the court or tribunal will tell you what video platform is being used. When you know the platform, follow the appropriate link for guidance on joining the video hearing and testing your equipment:
Cloud Video Platform (CVP)
Video Hearing Service"
Anyone done this recently on Teams?
All the instructions say is "when you join you will be the "MS Teams Lobby (waiting area) until the hearing starts. That's it! Bearing in mind I'll lose the case by default if I don't "attend" it's pretty bloody shambolic.
How do they contact me? does the fact MS teams uses the email I've given them mean they'll be able to send a meeting request to my application? (desktop) - something will pop up saying I'm being contacted? I've never used Teams before. And their isn't a "lobby" that I can see. It just opens (the application) on a chat tab.
I have of course googled this but the only MS Teams example is an Australian one, and laughably, the UK Gov websites say MS Teams is no longer used in the UK!
Quote
"If your hearing is happening by video, the court or tribunal will tell you what video platform is being used. When you know the platform, follow the appropriate link for guidance on joining the video hearing and testing your equipment:
Cloud Video Platform (CVP)
Video Hearing Service"
Anyone done this recently on Teams?
I use Teams regularly in work. Assuming the email address they send it to is linked to the account you're using on Teams, it'll display in the Calendar button on the left hand at the appropriate time and date. It'll have a join button in there that you can use to enter the lobby. That's how we use it, anyway.
I would ask a colleague/friend to setup a meeting in advance so you can see where the invite will appear in the email and how Teams looks and is navigated so you are not unprepared.
Not sure which (if any) email software you use but if it's Outlook then it's probable they will send you an "invite" and when you reply accepting it; the email disappears from your inbox but you can find it on your calendar (sorry if teaching you to suck eggs).
Not sure which (if any) email software you use but if it's Outlook then it's probable they will send you an "invite" and when you reply accepting it; the email disappears from your inbox but you can find it on your calendar (sorry if teaching you to suck eggs).
TheDrownedApe said:
I would ask a colleague/friend to setup a meeting in advance so you can see where the invite will appear in the email and how Teams looks and is navigated so you are not unprepared.
Not sure which (if any) email software you use but if it's Outlook then it's probable they will send you an "invite" and when you reply accepting it; the email disappears from your inbox but you can find it on your calendar (sorry if teaching you to suck eggs).
Cheers - I'm going to do just that -a dry run. Test it out, including my kit.Not sure which (if any) email software you use but if it's Outlook then it's probable they will send you an "invite" and when you reply accepting it; the email disappears from your inbox but you can find it on your calendar (sorry if teaching you to suck eggs).
I've used my Gmail address. - keeps it "reliable" and I know where to check for spam! Don't always entirely trust my own business email - crappy spam filtering which I have to keep an eye on!
As has been said above, it is worth downloading Teams and getting it set up and tested well before the hearing. I would also recommend a headset as it makes life easier and reduces extraneous noise. But if you do get one -- check it is all working properly and talks to Teams well before it is needed.
Obviously you will need to comply with the directions that have been given about evidence and so forth. You might also want to think about preparing (and filing and serving) a skeleton argument. There is some very good guidance here:
https://www.biicl.org/files/2223_skeleton_argument...
Obviously you will need to comply with the directions that have been given about evidence and so forth. You might also want to think about preparing (and filing and serving) a skeleton argument. There is some very good guidance here:
https://www.biicl.org/files/2223_skeleton_argument...
As above on teams set-up. Check it. We use it at work all the time and it's pretty good. Headset or remote speaker help but ensure they work beforehand. Also consider what you will have behind you in the call (you don't want a sunny window or anything you'd rather others not see). Our work Teams has an ability to blur the background or add a background but not sure that is possible if dialing in via browser.
If you are going to use a camera, I would practice not rolling my eyes.
If nobody else turns their cameras on, then you can simply keep yours switched off, by clicking the ICON.
Teams also has a test function for the hardware under the settings section, so you can pre test your mic and camera. You can also test the functions to blur your background, or put up a fake background. Whether you use one of the default ones, or upload the recreational room from the Millenium Falcon, is up to you.
If nobody else turns their cameras on, then you can simply keep yours switched off, by clicking the ICON.
Teams also has a test function for the hardware under the settings section, so you can pre test your mic and camera. You can also test the functions to blur your background, or put up a fake background. Whether you use one of the default ones, or upload the recreational room from the Millenium Falcon, is up to you.
As the others said, you won't need a Teams account/Microsoft account. The court will send you an invite, if they do it properly it will show up in your calendar. There will be a "click to join teams meeting" or similarly worded link in said invite. Once you click that, you'll see a window where you can change your camera, audio settings etc. After that you click join, and it will say something like "we've let people know you are in the meeting", and you wait until they let you in basically.
If you want any help/a trial run shoot me a private message and I'll go through it with you. Appreciate it's a daunting time when your LTD is being taken to court, you don't want tech playing silly buggers on top of it!
If you want any help/a trial run shoot me a private message and I'll go through it with you. Appreciate it's a daunting time when your LTD is being taken to court, you don't want tech playing silly buggers on top of it!
I'm far from a luddite, but surely they should give you the option of attending in person? Plenty of people will have email accounts but no means of using Teams.
I've been in Teams meetings that are delayed whilst someone battles IT issues, has a dodgy headset crackling away, disappears as their battery runs out etc, and that's with technically-minded people on corporate machines without admin privileges, where they couldn't get it bogged down with malware even if they wanted to.
If that's an option then might be worth thinking if a trip to the court would be less stressful overall.
I've been in Teams meetings that are delayed whilst someone battles IT issues, has a dodgy headset crackling away, disappears as their battery runs out etc, and that's with technically-minded people on corporate machines without admin privileges, where they couldn't get it bogged down with malware even if they wanted to.
If that's an option then might be worth thinking if a trip to the court would be less stressful overall.
donkmeister said:
I'm far from a luddite, but surely they should give you the option of attending in person? Plenty of people will have email accounts but no means of using Teams.
I've been in Teams meetings that are delayed whilst someone battles IT issues, has a dodgy headset crackling away, disappears as their battery runs out etc, and that's with technically-minded people on corporate machines without admin privileges, where they couldn't get it bogged down with malware even if they wanted to.
If that's an option then might be worth thinking if a trip to the court would be less stressful overall.
Its a "preliminary hearing small claims track" and states it will ONLY be online - unless I make a case to explain why I can't do it. The court is 3-4 hours away. I'm the defendant, and I asked for it to be moved locally, which they are supposed to do as I'm the defendant, but that's been ignored. It's in the plaintiffs home town.I've been in Teams meetings that are delayed whilst someone battles IT issues, has a dodgy headset crackling away, disappears as their battery runs out etc, and that's with technically-minded people on corporate machines without admin privileges, where they couldn't get it bogged down with malware even if they wanted to.
If that's an option then might be worth thinking if a trip to the court would be less stressful overall.
If it ends up being in a physical court I'll make more moves to have it transferred locally.
All a bit odd really - can't understand why there is even a need for a hearing. The ball is entirely in the plaintiffs court to prove a product was faulty at point of sale/manufacture, 2.5 years after he bought it. The law is seemingly entirely on my side. I can't go into details, but there is no way he can prove it was faulty at supply (which it wasn't). Even offered the chap a cheap resolution where he paid trade-cost for a replacement - he's having none of it. Going for a full refund! He's misquoted the CRA and thinks he's entitled to one. Hasn't even allowed for fair use , and the fact he was 18 months out of warranty .
Should be fun.
I'm fine with the tech, just had no idea how the conference would be initiated. The information the court supplied was minimal to say the least.
Thanks for teh offer Big C - I've got a pal who works in a real office and everything! he's going to do a test call to me . Appreciated.
It may actually be good news that a preliminary hearing has been arranged. This is frequently because the judge, having read the papers, has taken the view that one side has no realistic chance of success - hopefully not you! - and is considering disposing of the case at the hearing without a full trial.
You can, however, ask the court not to bother with a preliminary hearing, and ask that the hearing that's been listed is treated as the final hearing. If the claimant agrees the court will usually do this.
And you don't need to attend (either in person or via video) the final hearing provided you comply with the relevant rule - https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/...
If your defence is as solid as you say then there may be very little that you could contribute at the hearing, as the claimant is likely to fail anyway.
If the claim has any merit at all have you considered making a settlement offer, just to get rid of the hassle factor? You don't say what the value of the claim is, but it might be worth making such an offer. If you do you must make sure you use the words `without prejudice', which means that if the claimant doesn't accept it he can't then refer to the offer at the hearing.
If a claim has no merit at all, and appears doomed to fail you should always consider applying for `summary judgement'. This is an application to the court to dismiss a claim / defence on the basis that it has no realistic prospect of success. It's probably too late in this case, but for other readers it can be a very quick and effective way of getting rid of a nuisance case.
You can, however, ask the court not to bother with a preliminary hearing, and ask that the hearing that's been listed is treated as the final hearing. If the claimant agrees the court will usually do this.
And you don't need to attend (either in person or via video) the final hearing provided you comply with the relevant rule - https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/...
If your defence is as solid as you say then there may be very little that you could contribute at the hearing, as the claimant is likely to fail anyway.
If the claim has any merit at all have you considered making a settlement offer, just to get rid of the hassle factor? You don't say what the value of the claim is, but it might be worth making such an offer. If you do you must make sure you use the words `without prejudice', which means that if the claimant doesn't accept it he can't then refer to the offer at the hearing.
If a claim has no merit at all, and appears doomed to fail you should always consider applying for `summary judgement'. This is an application to the court to dismiss a claim / defence on the basis that it has no realistic prospect of success. It's probably too late in this case, but for other readers it can be a very quick and effective way of getting rid of a nuisance case.
Griffith4ever said:
Its a "preliminary hearing small claims track" and states it will ONLY be online - unless I make a case to explain why I can't do it. The court is 3-4 hours away. I'm the defendant, and I asked for it to be moved locally, which they are supposed to do as I'm the defendant, but that's been ignored. It's in the plaintiffs home town.
If it ends up being in a physical court I'll make more moves to have it transferred locally.
This is because he is an individual and you are a business. You can only have the case moved by default where you are a individual yourself.If it ends up being in a physical court I'll make more moves to have it transferred locally.
Griffith4ever said:
All a bit odd really - can't understand why there is even a need for a hearing. The ball is entirely in the plaintiffs court to prove a product was faulty at point of sale/manufacture, 2.5 years after he bought it. The law is seemingly entirely on my side. I can't go into details, but there is no way he can prove it was faulty at supply (which it wasn't). Even offered the chap a cheap resolution where he paid trade-cost for a replacement - he's having none of it. Going for a full refund! He's misquoted the CRA and thinks he's entitled to one. Hasn't even allowed for fair use , and the fact he was 18 months out of warranty .
Regardless of warranty, remember the SOGA states that goods must be of merchantable quality, and should last for a reasonable period. I don't know how much this item was, but if it was pricey then it could be said that you would expect it to last much longer than a year. This is likely to be basis of his claim.You should assess your product and make a decision on the merits of the case. Think about the money you could be making elsewhere and consider just taking the hit to free you up to make more money elsewhere. Otherwise you'll potentially be paying for the product + court fees.
Edited by Cyberprog on Monday 13th February 18:34
Thanks all for the advice.
I didn't know there was a distinction between consumers and business when it came to choosing court locations.
I do appreciate the SOGA allows for what is "reasonable" when it comes to the life of goods, based on price/perceived value.
The "hit" is £1000, and I'm fighting my corner for it. What cheesed me off is I offered a solution (75% discount off a replacement) and he was having none of it. Buggered if I'm giving a full refund nearly three years after selling something that the customer has had good use of, and of which £130 worth is still perfectly fine and he still has (product is made up of several items).
I have a manufacturer signed statement and factory proof of quality assurance tests pre-dispatch, and I also have written proof the customer ignored the correct handling of the product instructions, twice, with at least one of those occasions letting a third party mishandle the goods in his absence.
As far as I can tell, he has zero chance of proving the product was faulty at the time of sale - that boat has long sailed so the onus is on him. He's had good use of the product for approx 30 months, ignored the correct handling warnings twice, and let a third party handle the product at least once.
I feel fairly confident the law is on my side. We shall see.
On the whole I have a very good relationship with my customers and bend over backwards to help in the event of any outside warranty issues - but this case was different - he was entirely unreasonable and I decided to fight. I was going to capitulate and send him a replacement product FOC but then, with advice and backing from my supplier I decided I had a strong enough case.
I didn't know there was a distinction between consumers and business when it came to choosing court locations.
I do appreciate the SOGA allows for what is "reasonable" when it comes to the life of goods, based on price/perceived value.
The "hit" is £1000, and I'm fighting my corner for it. What cheesed me off is I offered a solution (75% discount off a replacement) and he was having none of it. Buggered if I'm giving a full refund nearly three years after selling something that the customer has had good use of, and of which £130 worth is still perfectly fine and he still has (product is made up of several items).
I have a manufacturer signed statement and factory proof of quality assurance tests pre-dispatch, and I also have written proof the customer ignored the correct handling of the product instructions, twice, with at least one of those occasions letting a third party mishandle the goods in his absence.
As far as I can tell, he has zero chance of proving the product was faulty at the time of sale - that boat has long sailed so the onus is on him. He's had good use of the product for approx 30 months, ignored the correct handling warnings twice, and let a third party handle the product at least once.
I feel fairly confident the law is on my side. We shall see.
On the whole I have a very good relationship with my customers and bend over backwards to help in the event of any outside warranty issues - but this case was different - he was entirely unreasonable and I decided to fight. I was going to capitulate and send him a replacement product FOC but then, with advice and backing from my supplier I decided I had a strong enough case.
Griffith4ever said:
Thanks all for the advice.
I didn't know there was a distinction between consumers and business when it came to choosing court locations.
I do appreciate the SOGA allows for what is "reasonable" when it comes to the life of goods, based on price/perceived value.
The "hit" is £1000, and I'm fighting my corner for it. What cheesed me off is I offered a solution (75% discount off a replacement) and he was having none of it. Buggered if I'm giving a full refund nearly three years after selling something that the customer has had good use of, and of which £130 worth is still perfectly fine and he still has (product is made up of several items).
I have a manufacturer signed statement and factory proof of quality assurance tests pre-dispatch, and I also have written proof the customer ignored the correct handling of the product instructions, twice, with at least one of those occasions letting a third party mishandle the goods in his absence.
As far as I can tell, he has zero chance of proving the product was faulty at the time of sale - that boat has long sailed so the onus is on him. He's had good use of the product for approx 30 months, ignored the correct handling warnings twice, and let a third party handle the product at least once.
I feel fairly confident the law is on my side. We shall see.
On the whole I have a very good relationship with my customers and bend over backwards to help in the event of any outside warranty issues - but this case was different - he was entirely unreasonable and I decided to fight. I was going to capitulate and send him a replacement product FOC but then, with advice and backing from my supplier I decided I had a strong enough case.
Fair, sounds like you've been thorough in assessing things. Obviously with a high price tag on the line, SOGA will apply upto potentially 6 years - but it will be on him to show on the balance of probability that whatever fault has happened was as a result of some sort of defect in the product. With your evidence of improper usage, I'd say you stand a fair chance.I didn't know there was a distinction between consumers and business when it came to choosing court locations.
I do appreciate the SOGA allows for what is "reasonable" when it comes to the life of goods, based on price/perceived value.
The "hit" is £1000, and I'm fighting my corner for it. What cheesed me off is I offered a solution (75% discount off a replacement) and he was having none of it. Buggered if I'm giving a full refund nearly three years after selling something that the customer has had good use of, and of which £130 worth is still perfectly fine and he still has (product is made up of several items).
I have a manufacturer signed statement and factory proof of quality assurance tests pre-dispatch, and I also have written proof the customer ignored the correct handling of the product instructions, twice, with at least one of those occasions letting a third party mishandle the goods in his absence.
As far as I can tell, he has zero chance of proving the product was faulty at the time of sale - that boat has long sailed so the onus is on him. He's had good use of the product for approx 30 months, ignored the correct handling warnings twice, and let a third party handle the product at least once.
I feel fairly confident the law is on my side. We shall see.
On the whole I have a very good relationship with my customers and bend over backwards to help in the event of any outside warranty issues - but this case was different - he was entirely unreasonable and I decided to fight. I was going to capitulate and send him a replacement product FOC but then, with advice and backing from my supplier I decided I had a strong enough case.
My advice for small claims is usually this; Stay Calm. Let the other party work themselves up and look like a complete idiot, and then calmly rebunk everything they say. If necessary, ask for a moment to check your notes before rebutting things. Judges look for reasonableness, so you can point to your offer to supply a replacement at trade cost as a reasonable gesture. Don't let it be personal. Thank the judge when you're done, regardless of the outcome - you never know if you'll deal with them again in the future. And obviously attend the call in a suitable space, dressed professionally, without any noise in the background if at all possible.There are virtual backgrounds you can use on teams also to hide your surroundings if it really is a tip!
Cyberprog said:
You should assess your product and make a decision on the merits of the case. Think about the money you could be making elsewhere and consider just taking the hit to free you up to make more money elsewhere. Otherwise you'll potentially be paying for the product + court fees.
Taking the above into consideration, could i make a settlement offer in terms of product? I could give the plaintif a replacement product, that is exactly the same as the one he is claiming for, at no cost to me at all, as I have one sitting here collecting dust, and no longer sell it. My product has a very large profit margin so the item in question costs me very little, and in this case, is worth very little to me, Edited by Cyberprog on Monday 13th February 18:34
If so - how do you go about making the offer?
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