Trains: penalty fair | was it fair?

[kiethton]

I'd claim it back via Amex

If you had the card and documents why did you even pay? You wait there, causing a blockage until it decides to work, if they don't like that it's not your problem.

[Golfgtimk28v]

i can't see how they could do anything if you walked off.. Be interesting what the police would arrest you for?

Edited by Golfgtimk28v on Tuesday 7th February 19:01

[gizard]

Funny isn't it that there was a distinct lack of 'Revenue Protection officers' when there was a distinct lack of service during the strikes.....

[Canon_Fodder]

Yes as above claim back from the CC co.

should be straightforward as you hold the proof of your railcard

[MrTrilby]

You’re complaining that you have been fined by a ticket inspector because you couldn’t produce a valid ticket for your journey? What were they supposed to do? That’s exactly their job.

If they didn’t then you’d only be complaining about how other people get away with fare dodging because nobody ever checks tickets.

If you wanted to avoid the fine why didn’t you stay and prove you had a valid ticket rather than trying to push past and walk away?

[FieldAtlanta]

MrTrilby said:

You’re complaining that you have been fined by a ticket inspector because you couldn’t produce a valid ticket for your journey? What were they supposed to do? That’s exactly their job.

If they didn’t then you’d only be complaining about how other people get away with fare dodging because nobody ever checks tickets.

If you wanted to avoid the fine why didn’t you stay and prove you had a valid ticket rather than trying to push past and walk away?

Hindsight, eh?

Not a revenue protection officer by any chance, are you?

[FieldAtlanta]

kiethton said:

If you had the card and documents why did you even pay? You wait there, causing a blockage until it decides to work, if they don't like that it's not your problem.

I wish I had but honestly, the pressure of 500 delayed commuters breathing down my neck made me buckle.

[ConnectionError]

I would be very surprised if the CC company would refund.

[Dolf Stoppard]

Canon_Fodder said:

Yes as above claim back from the CC co.

should be straightforward as you hold the proof of your railcard

I suspect it’s not going to be that straightforward.

Amex is not going to pursue an appeal on behalf of the OP. That would be like saying everyone with a parking charge should just pay by CC and send their ‘proof’ to the CC company.

I suspect the appeals process is the only way. And having proof now won’t necessarily be enough. The OP couldn’t provide proof when challenged and that’s a requirement for the discounted rate. Hopefully though they will see reason.

[Rough101]

These guys do I believe have some right to detain, and BTP support them, there is I believe up to 3 months in prison available, see The Regulation of Railways Act.

[Carguy44]

MrTrilby said:

You’re complaining that you have been fined by a ticket inspector because you couldn’t produce a valid ticket for your journey? What were they supposed to do? That’s exactly their job.

If they didn’t then you’d only be complaining about how other people get away with fare dodging because nobody ever checks tickets.

If you wanted to avoid the fine why didn’t you stay and prove you had a valid ticket rather than trying to push past and walk away?

This.

Why didn't you start getting your ticket sorted when you were stood waiting rather than when you got to them?

Or stand to one side and sort it so not to hold up others?

Why didn't you ask for a receipt when you tapped your card?

[FieldAtlanta]

Carguy44 said:

MrTrilby said:

You’re complaining that you have been fined by a ticket inspector because you couldn’t produce a valid ticket for your journey? What were they supposed to do? That’s exactly their job.

If they didn’t then you’d only be complaining about how other people get away with fare dodging because nobody ever checks tickets.

If you wanted to avoid the fine why didn’t you stay and prove you had a valid ticket rather than trying to push past and walk away?

This.

Why didn't you start getting your ticket sorted when you were stood waiting rather than when you got to them?

Or stand to one side and sort it so not to hold up others?

Why didn't you ask for a receipt when you tapped your card?

I did get my ticket ready, this was also a unique event so I didn’t know if they were huddled around the stairs to offer support or if they were forming picket line or anything. The infrequency of people asking to see a railcard meant the app required updating and I had not expected a need to get it ready.

Very few ‘one sides’ to stand to on this particular, busy London platform (see notes about clumsy orchestration of this ticket inspection event).

Didn’t ask for a receipt because see previous answers relating to high stress, extremely busy environment. It’s not a receipt I required anyway, but actually a notice of a fine. And this was the responsibility of the chap fining me to provide.

… any chance of less retrospective “what abouts” and some more of the proactive suggestions?

[Carguy44]

FieldAtlanta said:

Carguy44 said:

MrTrilby said:

You’re complaining that you have been fined by a ticket inspector because you couldn’t produce a valid ticket for your journey? What were they supposed to do? That’s exactly their job.

If they didn’t then you’d only be complaining about how other people get away with fare dodging because nobody ever checks tickets.

If you wanted to avoid the fine why didn’t you stay and prove you had a valid ticket rather than trying to push past and walk away?

This.

Why didn't you start getting your ticket sorted when you were stood waiting rather than when you got to them?

Or stand to one side and sort it so not to hold up others?

Why didn't you ask for a receipt when you tapped your card?

I did get my ticket ready, this was also a unique event so I didn’t know if they were huddled around the stairs to offer support or if they were forming picket line or anything. The infrequency of people asking to see a railcard meant the app required updating and I had not expected a need to get it ready.

Very few ‘one sides’ to stand to on this particular, busy London platform (see notes about clumsy orchestration of this ticket inspection event).

Didn’t ask for a receipt because see previous answers relating to high stress, extremely busy environment. It’s not a receipt I required anyway, but actually a notice of a fine. And this was the responsibility of the chap fining me to provide.

… any chance of less retrospective “what abouts” and some more of the proactive suggestions?

Well maybe it will be a good lesson for the future for you.

[The big yin]

Hope this helps

Mr Jamie Burles Managing Director

Email [e-mail]

Telephone [phone]
Switchboard 0345 600 7245
Website https://www.abelliogreateranglia.co.uk

Postal Address Norwich Railway Station, Station Approach, Norwich, NR1 1EFM

[MrTrilby]

FieldAtlanta said:

Hindsight, eh?

Not a revenue protection officer by any chance, are you?

Nope. Just someone who doesn’t think it’s ok to be rude to people who are trying to do their job. It rarely helps you and it just makes things unpleasant for everyone.

It’s annoying if you didn’t have your ticket downloaded properly, but it’s not the inspector’s fault or responsibility to have it available, it’s yours. Own your mistake and don’t try and take out your frustration on them. You could have fixed it all by remaining calm, waiting for the ticket to download, and then you both carry on with your day.

I find that generally if you are polite to people and treat them with respect, they’re polite back and treat you with respect and would be quite understanding if you needed to take a little time to download your ticket or rummage in a pocket for it.

[FieldAtlanta]

MrTrilby said:

FieldAtlanta said:

Hindsight, eh?

Not a revenue protection officer by any chance, are you?

Nope. Just someone who doesn’t think it’s ok to be rude to people who are trying to do their job. It rarely helps you and it just makes things unpleasant for everyone.

It’s annoying if you didn’t have your ticket downloaded properly, but it’s not the inspector’s fault or responsibility to have it available, it’s yours. Own your mistake and don’t try and take out your frustration on them. You could have fixed it all by remaining calm, waiting for the ticket to download, and then you both carry on with your day.

I find that generally if you are polite to people and treat them with respect, they’re polite back and treat you with respect and would be quite understanding if you needed to take a little time to download your ticket or rummage in a pocket for it.

Honestly, couldn’t agree more with you on every point! I approached him as politely and respectfully I would anyone else - he responded rudely and aggressively immediately… sure he’s frustrated and sees it all the time so has a low tolerance level level. Im no social expert but he gave me “bully” vibes. And arguably it’s his job to be tactful and remain professional.

I simply expected a more ‘reasonable’ response. I’d proven I had a ticket and any reasonable person would have looked at the situation and said, “that will do, thanks”.

[carl_w]

Surely this is just a case of appealing via GA's appeal process and providing evidence of a valid ticket and railcard? If no joy, escalate to the rail regulator.

Not quite the same but I've had a bunch of refunds via GA's delay repay service. Just need to apply.

Moneysavingexpert used to promote a refund claim service but I can't find it right now.

Edit: https://www.resolver.co.uk

[N111BJG]

Can’t you just give them all your details & offer to see them in court

Or is it more complicated than that

[Pica-Pica]

Carguy44 said:

MrTrilby said:

You’re complaining that you have been fined by a ticket inspector because you couldn’t produce a valid ticket for your journey? What were they supposed to do? That’s exactly their job.

If they didn’t then you’d only be complaining about how other people get away with fare dodging because nobody ever checks tickets.

If you wanted to avoid the fine why didn’t you stay and prove you had a valid ticket rather than trying to push past and walk away?

This.

Why didn't you start getting your ticket sorted when you were stood waiting rather than when you got to them?

Or stand to one side and sort it so not to hold up others?

Why didn't you ask for a receipt when you tapped your card?

I tend to be in line with this.

A physical railcard requires you to carry it on all rail journeys, and a digital version requires you to have it available on a device.

T&Cs
2.8. You must carry your valid Railcard with you on your journey. When asked by rail staff, you must show a valid ticket and valid Railcard within its period of validity when you travel.
2.8.1. If you have a physical Railcard, it must be signed by you and should be legible so staff can read it, as further detailed in the NRCoT.
2.8.2 If you bought your physical Railcard at a rail station, you must carry your Railcard Photocard with you on your journey.
2.8.3. If you have a digital Railcard, you must be able to show it on a mobile device throughout your journey.

It is the same as travelling without a ticket.

I have a railcard, I have often been asked to show it along with my ticket, when on or boarding a train.

Schoolboy error (well a 16-25 year old error)

[_Rodders_]

kiethton said:

I'd claim it back via Amex

If you had the card and documents why did you even pay? You wait there, causing a blockage until it decides to work, if they don't like that it's not your problem.

I agree. Or in a slightly more dominate the stairs mentality just walk off.