When do driving bans take effect?

[sherbertdip]

These scrotes have been sentenced to jail time and bans surely the bans come into effect after they are released from Prison?

[/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-64640690

[agtlaw]

“where a court imposes a disqualification in addition to a custodial sentence or a detention and training order, the court must extend the disqualification period by one half of the custodial term imposed. This is to take into account the period the offender will spend in custody. This will avoid a driving ban expiring, or being significantly diminished, during the period the offender is in custody.

For example where a court imposes a 6 month custodial sentence and a disqualification period of 12 months, the ban will be extended to 15 months.”

[craigjm]

agtlaw said:

“where a court imposes a disqualification in addition to a custodial sentence or a detention and training order, the court must extend the disqualification period by one half of the custodial term imposed. This is to take into account the period the offender will spend in custody. This will avoid a driving ban expiring, or being significantly diminished, during the period the offender is in custody.

For example where a court imposes a 6 month custodial sentence and a disqualification period of 12 months, the ban will be extended to 15 months.”

Indeed. It is silly though that driving bans are running when people are in jail. They should IMO start once they are released but the extension is at least a start

[Cliftonite]

craigjm said:

agtlaw said:

“where a court imposes a disqualification in addition to a custodial sentence or a detention and training order, the court must extend the disqualification period by one half of the custodial term imposed. This is to take into account the period the offender will spend in custody. This will avoid a driving ban expiring, or being significantly diminished, during the period the offender is in custody.

For example where a court imposes a 6 month custodial sentence and a disqualification period of 12 months, the ban will be extended to 15 months.”

Indeed. It is silly though that driving bans are running when people are in jail. They should IMO start once they are released but the extension is at least a start

A logical scenario but quite difficult (impossible?) to administer in a real world!

[agtlaw]

craigjm said:

Indeed. It is silly though that driving bans are running when people are in jail. They should IMO start once they are released but the extension is at least a start

It isn't 'silly' for offenders in an open prison, or released on HDC, etc, etc.

[craigjm]

Cliftonite said:

A logical scenario but quite difficult (impossible?) to administer in a real world!

Would it? I’m not so sure. When a prisoner is set for release there is a release process they go through. Surely part of that checklist could be to contact the DVLA to implement the driving ban that would be listed on their custodial record? How different is that to a court notifying the DVLA at the time of conviction? I’m not sure it would be any more effort but who knows I have been out of the criminal justice system for a while

[agtlaw]

craigjm said:

Would it? I’m not so sure.

I am.

[matchmaker]

agtlaw said:

craigjm said:

Would it? I’m not so sure.

I am.

So am I. It would be far too complicated a system to operate. The current system where the disqualification starts at the date of sentence (or earlier if an interim disqualification is imposed) is simple and works well.

[Pica-Pica]

craigjm said:

agtlaw said:

“where a court imposes a disqualification in addition to a custodial sentence or a detention and training order, the court must extend the disqualification period by one half of the custodial term imposed. This is to take into account the period the offender will spend in custody. This will avoid a driving ban expiring, or being significantly diminished, during the period the offender is in custody.

For example where a court imposes a 6 month custodial sentence and a disqualification period of 12 months, the ban will be extended to 15 months.”

Indeed. It is silly though that driving bans are running when people are in jail. They should IMO start once they are released but the extension is at least a start

The ‘extension’ would ensure the ban is fully implemented if the custodial sentence is served for only half the sentenced period. Thus there is a fixed end date for the ban. I would imagine DVLA would be informed of that date after the sentencing.

[sherbertdip]

agtlaw said:

“where a court imposes a disqualification in addition to a custodial sentence or a detention and training order, the court must extend the disqualification period by one half of the custodial term imposed. This is to take into account the period the offender will spend in custody. This will avoid a driving ban expiring, or being significantly diminished, during the period the offender is in custody.

For example where a court imposes a 6 month custodial sentence and a disqualification period of 12 months, the ban will be extended to 15 months.”

Thank you, that makes sense to me.

[LosingGrip]

I’m sure I’ve seen some cases that have been reported in the paper as the disqual starting after the prison sentence.

[matchmaker]

LosingGrip said:

I’m sure I’ve seen some cases that have been reported in the paper as the disqual starting after the prison sentence.

Then the reports were wrong. The exact date of release cannot be determined at the time of sentence, apart from anything else.

[agtlaw]

LosingGrip said:

I’m sure I’ve seen some cases that have been reported in the paper as the disqual starting after the prison sentence.

I’m sure that didn’t happen in England and Wales. Disqualification is immediate. It can’t be deferred.

You may have seen reports in which the extension period and disqualification were separately outlined.

[Somewhatfoolish]

It's worth noting that this law came in precisely because initially they really didn't take the sentence into account so you had perverse situations of the ban expiring while scrote was still in prison

[Seraph14]

matchmaker said:

Then the reports were wrong. The exact date of release cannot be determined at the time of sentence, apart from anything else.

Here is one such example.

"In addition to his prison sentence, Yates was banned from driving for seven years, to commence once released from prison."

https://news.sky.com/story/dangerous-driver-jailed...

[agtlaw]

The sky journalist got it wrong. As already explained, Disqualification Orders are immediate. An extension period applies if imprisoned; see Needham [2016] EWCA Crim 455.

Also see s.166 of the Sentencing Act 2020. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/17/secti...

[yellowjack]

sherbertdip said:

agtlaw said:

“where a court imposes a disqualification in addition to a custodial sentence or a detention and training order, the court must extend the disqualification period by one half of the custodial term imposed. This is to take into account the period the offender will spend in custody. This will avoid a driving ban expiring, or being significantly diminished, during the period the offender is in custody.

For example where a court imposes a 6 month custodial sentence and a disqualification period of 12 months, the ban will be extended to 15 months.”

Thank you, that makes sense to me.

It would make more sense to me if the extension period of the disqualification was equal to the duration of the custodial sentence. After all, are convicted criminals not "conditionally released" from prison after half (or other appropriate tariff deduction) their sentence "on licence"? So if a person is released subject to being at risk of recall to prison if they breach their licence conditions, there surely still remains a chance that their period of disqualification might expire or be significantly diminished while they are behind bars.

[martinbiz]

yellowjack said:

sherbertdip said:

agtlaw said:

“where a court imposes a disqualification in addition to a custodial sentence or a detention and training order, the court must extend the disqualification period by one half of the custodial term imposed. This is to take into account the period the offender will spend in custody. This will avoid a driving ban expiring, or being significantly diminished, during the period the offender is in custody.

For example where a court imposes a 6 month custodial sentence and a disqualification period of 12 months, the ban will be extended to 15 months.”

Thank you, that makes sense to me.

It would make more sense to me if the extension period of the disqualification was equal to the duration of the custodial sentence. After all, are convicted criminals not "conditionally released" from prison after half (or other appropriate tariff deduction) their sentence "on licence"? So if a person is released subject to being at risk of recall to prison if they breach their licence conditions, there surely still remains a chance that their period of disqualification might expire or be significantly diminished while they are behind bars.

The offender is most likely going to spend 3 months in custody and then released on licence to serve the rest of his sentence, so 3 + 12 months = 15 months, ie the length of the ban plus the 3 in custody, so he will effectively have to serve the full 12 month disqualification imposed

[Aretnap]

yellowjack said:

It would make more sense to me if the extension period of the disqualification was equal to the duration of the custodial sentence. After all, are convicted criminals not "conditionally released" from prison after half (or other appropriate tariff deduction) their sentence "on licence"? So if a person is released subject to being at risk of recall to prison if they breach their licence conditions, there surely still remains a chance that their period of disqualification might expire or be significantly diminished while they are behind bars.

He might or might not be recalled to prison. But there are any number of other things that might or might not happen which would reduce the impact of a ban on a.person, and all of those are just considered luck of the draw. Maybe you get jailed for a completely unrelated offence while you're already banned for drink driving. Maybe you break your leg while banned and so you couldn't drive anyway. Maybe there just isn't anywhere you particularly need to drive for a few months. None of those things would freeze the ban either. Ultimately you can't design a ban so that it only applies at the moment of maximum inconvenience.

[CanAm]

Seraph14 said:

Here is one such example.

"In addition to his prison sentence, Yates was banned from driving for seven years, to commence once released from prison."

https://news.sky.com/story/dangerous-driver-jailed...

agtlaw said:

The sky journalist got it wrong. As already explained, Disqualification Orders are immediate. An extension period applies if imprisoned; see Needham [2016] EWCA Crim 455.

Also see s.166 of the Sentencing Act 2020. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/17/secti...

If I had to chose between a Sky journalist and agtlaw on a point of law, I know who my money would be on.