Secondary School Failing Student with Special Needs
Discussion
Has anyone any experience of secondary school.
Mid last year I moved my eldest to a different school that had specialist support for Special Needs as her current was very good but downgraded her SEN status in 2019 after she got her SATS grades and did very well at primary. So she was suffering alot and basically would not give her SEN status again. She has some autism but they have not be able to to do these assessments and don't know when they will. I have asked for a letter to take to her doctors.
This school she was at always said she was not SEN and that primary didn't pass that info on! I found out form the new school she was K coded when she joined them "
I moved her Easter 22 (year 9) last year and she was doing quite well at the start of year 10, they had just got a new head of SEN and she has started her GCSEs quite well.
Fast forward to September 22 when a new head and academy 12 month management plan. The new Head has not gone down well and 11 staff have left since Sept 22. The head of SEN went off sick in Nov 22 and all the SEN and additional provision was changed by the new head with no consultation with parents.
Her SEN status was lost in Dec 22 and she lost her support and issues started with her not going to lessons.
I have basically had months of her year head who basically gets nothing sorted just plays lip service and getting nothing done, being told she can use this service for it not exist or not been agreed.
I have requested a meeting with the head and got the deputy head and a new SEN deputy who before half term did a new SEN plan which is better.
I had the meeting today but not all the answers, my daughter was upset.
Other issues is some of GCSE teachers have left this year and they will not be replaced, they are saying they have to learn from text books.]
Before half term she called me after another failed visit to SEN and a member of staff demanded she put the phone away, she explained she was calling me and why and when my daughter was rude and refused she was excluded for 1 day.
After the meeting today she went to SEN provision and the teacher was not aware she should be there so became upset and set the fire alarm off. Whilst I accept this is not acceptable they have decided to exclude her for 5 days, which I don't feel is helpful.
CAB Advice suggests.
A child with SEN needs who is excluded can be challenged.
Special Educational Needs
Sometimes poor behaviour can be an indication of special educational needs. For instance, if your child has difficulty learning and cannot follow what is going on in the classroom, this may lead to inattention or disruption. Emotional and communication difficulties can also be a special educational need in their own right if they are preventing a child from accessing the curriculum.
If you feel that the exclusion was a result of unmet SEN you may wish to ask for:
more or different support
assessment by an educational psychologist
an early or interim review if your child has an EHC plan
‘reasonable adjustments’ if your child is disabled
Mid last year I moved my eldest to a different school that had specialist support for Special Needs as her current was very good but downgraded her SEN status in 2019 after she got her SATS grades and did very well at primary. So she was suffering alot and basically would not give her SEN status again. She has some autism but they have not be able to to do these assessments and don't know when they will. I have asked for a letter to take to her doctors.
This school she was at always said she was not SEN and that primary didn't pass that info on! I found out form the new school she was K coded when she joined them "
I moved her Easter 22 (year 9) last year and she was doing quite well at the start of year 10, they had just got a new head of SEN and she has started her GCSEs quite well.
Fast forward to September 22 when a new head and academy 12 month management plan. The new Head has not gone down well and 11 staff have left since Sept 22. The head of SEN went off sick in Nov 22 and all the SEN and additional provision was changed by the new head with no consultation with parents.
Her SEN status was lost in Dec 22 and she lost her support and issues started with her not going to lessons.
I have basically had months of her year head who basically gets nothing sorted just plays lip service and getting nothing done, being told she can use this service for it not exist or not been agreed.
I have requested a meeting with the head and got the deputy head and a new SEN deputy who before half term did a new SEN plan which is better.
I had the meeting today but not all the answers, my daughter was upset.
Other issues is some of GCSE teachers have left this year and they will not be replaced, they are saying they have to learn from text books.]
Before half term she called me after another failed visit to SEN and a member of staff demanded she put the phone away, she explained she was calling me and why and when my daughter was rude and refused she was excluded for 1 day.
After the meeting today she went to SEN provision and the teacher was not aware she should be there so became upset and set the fire alarm off. Whilst I accept this is not acceptable they have decided to exclude her for 5 days, which I don't feel is helpful.
CAB Advice suggests.
A child with SEN needs who is excluded can be challenged.
Special Educational Needs
Sometimes poor behaviour can be an indication of special educational needs. For instance, if your child has difficulty learning and cannot follow what is going on in the classroom, this may lead to inattention or disruption. Emotional and communication difficulties can also be a special educational need in their own right if they are preventing a child from accessing the curriculum.
If you feel that the exclusion was a result of unmet SEN you may wish to ask for:
more or different support
assessment by an educational psychologist
an early or interim review if your child has an EHC plan
‘reasonable adjustments’ if your child is disabled
Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 24th February 21:10
Sorry I have no SEN experience but your post reads that the school are of the view that she isn’t SEN, isn’t that a good thing? I’m pretty convinced I’m mildly autistic and also see traits of it in my colleagues. I won’t speak for myself but they are very capable and successful folks.
Jag_NE said:
Sorry I have no SEN experience but your post reads that the school are of the view that she isn’t SEN, isn’t that a good thing? I’m pretty convinced I’m mildly autistic and also see traits of it in my colleagues. I won’t speak for myself but they are very capable and successful folks.
Sorry she has a SEN statement now it was put in place last week.It was in place up until Dec, THIS SCHOOL do consider her SEN, her old school downgraded her.
But there is no communication, the Lead SEN is off ill and the headteacher keeps changing the rules on how students are treated outside of normally lessons.
It was all agreed at a meeting this morning but when she went to SEN there was no note of her being there, hence she got upset.
V1nce Fox said:
If the head is failing to meet with you, approach the board of governors.
Its in special measures so has an Interim Executive board.I met the deputy head today who was much more helpful than the head of year, the main issue is with so many staff leaving or ill SEN is often closed as the 2 remaining staff are cover teaching.
My daugher has had 3 out of 4 meetings missed with the deputy lead due to last minute meetings over cover teaching.
She as doing well until dec and when the SEN lead went ill its all gone to hell.
Sorry to hear your daughter isn’t having a good time of it.
I believe that statemented children should have an EHCP drawn up by the SEND department at schools, though a long-term absentee SENDCo means there’s probably a massive backlog, and the other SEND staff sound like they’re having to plug gaps in staffing elsewhere, meaning they’re unable to do their actual job properly.
Unfortunately, massive understaffing is widespread in state education currently, hence the strikes and general discontent.
My advice to you would be to have someone draw up an EHCP ASAP for your daughter, and make sure that whatever adjustments are put in place quickly, so that she gets told off less, and begins to feel happier. The SEND staff being used to cover lessons is very poor: they’re often not qualified teachers, and as you’ve discovered, have many, more important tasks to deal with. The cover situation could probably be raised with the Deputy Head of you have a link to him/her. Furthermore, I think state schools are legally obliged to have and publish a complaints procedure: I’d look for this and start going through the motions to reinforce how unhappy you/your daughter are with how things are going.
In terms of the HoY not being hugely helpful, it sounds like this is way outside their remit. HoYs don’t actually have that many powers, and often find themselves banging their head against a brick wall, as other staff can be very uncooperative.
Assuming the new head was appointed after the special measures judgement, he/she’ll have sweeping powers to change things in a big way in a very short space of time. In the nicest possible way, meeting with parents will be quite low down his/her list, I’m afraid.
Alternatively, the school could just be staffed by incompetent simpletons: every profession has them!
IANAL, but I am a head of year at a state secondary school.
I believe that statemented children should have an EHCP drawn up by the SEND department at schools, though a long-term absentee SENDCo means there’s probably a massive backlog, and the other SEND staff sound like they’re having to plug gaps in staffing elsewhere, meaning they’re unable to do their actual job properly.
Unfortunately, massive understaffing is widespread in state education currently, hence the strikes and general discontent.
My advice to you would be to have someone draw up an EHCP ASAP for your daughter, and make sure that whatever adjustments are put in place quickly, so that she gets told off less, and begins to feel happier. The SEND staff being used to cover lessons is very poor: they’re often not qualified teachers, and as you’ve discovered, have many, more important tasks to deal with. The cover situation could probably be raised with the Deputy Head of you have a link to him/her. Furthermore, I think state schools are legally obliged to have and publish a complaints procedure: I’d look for this and start going through the motions to reinforce how unhappy you/your daughter are with how things are going.
In terms of the HoY not being hugely helpful, it sounds like this is way outside their remit. HoYs don’t actually have that many powers, and often find themselves banging their head against a brick wall, as other staff can be very uncooperative.
Assuming the new head was appointed after the special measures judgement, he/she’ll have sweeping powers to change things in a big way in a very short space of time. In the nicest possible way, meeting with parents will be quite low down his/her list, I’m afraid.
Alternatively, the school could just be staffed by incompetent simpletons: every profession has them!
IANAL, but I am a head of year at a state secondary school.
I feel your frustration,
I have a child who’s on the spectrum, diagnosed, but primary school failed to put him on SEND and the secondary school have been lacking in progressing.
I met with the SENDCo a couple months back, was promised he would be out onto SEND and a key worker allocated, months on and I’ve had one email from the SENDCo advising who the key worker is but she was awaiting email to send me a report!
It’s almighty frustrating, we’re only dealing with him on year 7, later years where your daughter is must be tough because of the negative impact it’s going to have on your daughter.
Have you had a look at the send code of practice? Highlight areas you feel the school are failing your daughter, email the board and heads with your highlighted areas.
I have a child who’s on the spectrum, diagnosed, but primary school failed to put him on SEND and the secondary school have been lacking in progressing.
I met with the SENDCo a couple months back, was promised he would be out onto SEND and a key worker allocated, months on and I’ve had one email from the SENDCo advising who the key worker is but she was awaiting email to send me a report!
It’s almighty frustrating, we’re only dealing with him on year 7, later years where your daughter is must be tough because of the negative impact it’s going to have on your daughter.
Have you had a look at the send code of practice? Highlight areas you feel the school are failing your daughter, email the board and heads with your highlighted areas.
Jag_NE said:
Sorry I have no SEN experience but your post reads that the school are of the view that she isn’t SEN, isn’t that a good thing? I’m pretty convinced I’m mildly autistic and also see traits of it in my colleagues. I won’t speak for myself but they are very capable and successful folks.
Autism has such a range though. My sister is autistic. She goes to uni and has a job. A family friend fosters children and she is currently fostering someone who is non verbal due to autism. My partner is currently having issues with her sons school with his possible autism. From what I can tell, schools are about as useful as a fish with tits when it comes to SEN.
Jag_NE said:
Sorry I have no SEN experience but your post reads that the school are of the view that she isn’t SEN, isn’t that a good thing? I’m pretty convinced I’m mildly autistic and also see traits of it in my colleagues. I won’t speak for myself but they are very capable and successful folks.
I suspect that you have a view that SEN is a negative status; for want of a much better way to express it: 'a status for the stupid kids'. And therefor, OP's daughter would be better off without that label. It's sadly a common misconception!SEN is about supporting kids who need extra support in whatever capacity it is needed, because schools and curriculums are designed for the majority of kids who are neurotypical and fully abled.
It absolutely should not be seen as a judgement about the intelligence or potential of kids.
wisbech said:
Can you move her back to original school, with the SEN status she now has?
Current school isn't going to improve anytime soon. Which teachers are going to join when they find out the current resignation rate? Big red flag
Since I had to push for a managed transfer no!Current school isn't going to improve anytime soon. Which teachers are going to join when they find out the current resignation rate? Big red flag
Plus she is year 10 and doing GCSEs that that don't align, I have another daughter at the old school but she lives 60% with mum nearer.
The child concerned was bullied at that school and didn't want to go back, aside from that fact they downgraded her SEN.
I have moved near the problem school primarily to get her into that school and because my sister lives nearby for support with child care.
I was thinking of appealing the exclusion as the child won't see it was a punishment as she wanted to get out of school.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Saturday 25th February 11:45
surveyor_101 said:
wisbech said:
Can you move her back to original school, with the SEN status she now has?
Current school isn't going to improve anytime soon. Which teachers are going to join when they find out the current resignation rate? Big red flag
Since I had to push for a managed transfer no!Current school isn't going to improve anytime soon. Which teachers are going to join when they find out the current resignation rate? Big red flag
Plus she is year 10 and doing GCSEs that that don't align, I have another daughter at the old school but she lives 60% with mum nearer.
The child concerned was bullied at that school and didn't want to go back, aside from that fact they downgraded her SEN, its a good school if you don't have SEN or PFSA/Counselling of school nurse needs as they share all that with 3 other schools.
I have moved near the problem school primarily to get her into that school and because my sister lives nearby for support with child care. They have full time PFSA/School nurse/councillor etc.
I was thinking of appealing the exclusion as the child won't see it was a punishment as she wanted to get out of school.
Just a few observations...
Separately, if the school is an academy it will have a complaints procedure; it should be on the website but must comply with Paragraph 5 at this link
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/setting...
If you believe the complaints procedure is not being complied with you can contact the ESFA
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/complai...
surveyor_101 said:
Other issues is some of GCSE teachers have left this year and they will not be replaced, they are saying they have to learn from text books.]
From experience, if 11 teachers left at Christmas it is very unlikely that they will be replaced until September purely because of the way that notice periods work and very few teachers are willing to change schools at Easter, just before exams start. That's if you can find staff at all, especially in shortage subjects. Our school has a good reputation and it took us a year to find a physics teacher. surveyor_101 said:
I met the deputy head today who was much more helpful than the head of year, the main issue is with so many staff leaving or ill SEN is often closed as the 2 remaining staff are cover teaching.
They really shouldn't be doing this if it is leaving SEN needs unmet (especially if students have EHCPs).surveyor_101 said:
Plus she is year 10 and doing GCSEs that that don't align, I have another daughter at the old school but she lives 60% with mum nearer.
What does "don't align" mean here?Separately, if the school is an academy it will have a complaints procedure; it should be on the website but must comply with Paragraph 5 at this link
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/setting...
If you believe the complaints procedure is not being complied with you can contact the ESFA
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/complai...
I think there’s two possible issues here and you need to decide which is the issue - or potentially both.
The EHCP should set out your daughter’s needs. It should set out the extra support the school will be putting in place to ensure these needs are met so that she achieves the outcomes section of the EHCP.
If you feel the school is not delivering the content of the EHCP, you need to complain to your local council. It’s responsible for maintaining the EHCP and ensuring it’s delivered. This duty is absolute. Even though the school does it on a day to day basis, the Council is responsible.
If you think the EHCP needs updating you can ask for an early annual review. The SEN Code of Practice deals with this and the circumstances when a council can say no. After a review you can challenge the content of the EHCP via the SEND Tribunal. The wait for hearings is currently around a year.
More day to day issues about how the school is dealing with your daughter need to be put to the school. There is an appeal route for fixed term exclusions but this comes after the exclusion. So will not get her back into school.
You need to be very clear about what you think is going wrong in order to put things right. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
I’d try speaking to your local SENDIASS as they exist to support parents of children with SEND.
The EHCP should set out your daughter’s needs. It should set out the extra support the school will be putting in place to ensure these needs are met so that she achieves the outcomes section of the EHCP.
If you feel the school is not delivering the content of the EHCP, you need to complain to your local council. It’s responsible for maintaining the EHCP and ensuring it’s delivered. This duty is absolute. Even though the school does it on a day to day basis, the Council is responsible.
If you think the EHCP needs updating you can ask for an early annual review. The SEN Code of Practice deals with this and the circumstances when a council can say no. After a review you can challenge the content of the EHCP via the SEND Tribunal. The wait for hearings is currently around a year.
More day to day issues about how the school is dealing with your daughter need to be put to the school. There is an appeal route for fixed term exclusions but this comes after the exclusion. So will not get her back into school.
You need to be very clear about what you think is going wrong in order to put things right. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
I’d try speaking to your local SENDIASS as they exist to support parents of children with SEND.
I couldn’t ascertain from your post whether she has or hasn’t got an ehcp (ie is statemented). If she has then the old school can’t have just taken it away and the new one reinstated it, as it is a long process. I don’t think fighting the exclusion is worthwhile since she clearly did it, and it is very disruptive thing to do. I think you should still try and work with the school and point out how she clearly needs more support / someone she can can work with and see at defined times (so she doesn’t take the piss) etc. And the fire alarm incident was a demonstration of her frustration. If she is statemented then her support should be outlined properly in the plan you mentioned.
I appreciate that your daughter was having issues at her previous school, but why on earth would you want to move her to another school that was in special measures? In my experience, as a retired secondary school teacher, whenever a school enters special measures, a new management team starts followed swiftly by a high proportion of teaching staff resignations. As mentioned by a previous poster, dedicated teaching staff are unlikely to leave before the end of the school year, as it is disruptive for their current students, so making an appointment at or around Easter can be difficult, if not impossible. Plus many teachers will be reluctant to move to a school that is in special measures due to the added hassle from both the school management and the additional stress caused by subsequent, frequent OFSTED inspections.
With respect to your daughters 5 day exclusion, one major aspect of a school entering special measures is that the new management team will want to reinforce/strengthen pupil discipline. As a result, they will undoubtedly want to rigidly enforce any tampering with fire safety equipment, so I suspect that you may just have to take this on the chin. It may also be useful for your daughter to know that intentionally interfering with fire safety equipment is illegal and can result in a fine.
With respect to your daughters 5 day exclusion, one major aspect of a school entering special measures is that the new management team will want to reinforce/strengthen pupil discipline. As a result, they will undoubtedly want to rigidly enforce any tampering with fire safety equipment, so I suspect that you may just have to take this on the chin. It may also be useful for your daughter to know that intentionally interfering with fire safety equipment is illegal and can result in a fine.
Mr.Chips said:
I appreciate that your daughter was having issues at her previous school, but why on earth would you want to move her to another school that was in special measures? In my experience, as a retired secondary school teacher, whenever a school enters special measures, a new management team starts followed swiftly by a high proportion of teaching staff resignations. As mentioned by a previous poster, dedicated teaching staff are unlikely to leave before the end of the school year, as it is disruptive for their current students, so making an appointment at or around Easter can be difficult, if not impossible. Plus many teachers will be reluctant to move to a school that is in special measures due to the added hassle from both the school management and the additional stress caused by subsequent, frequent OFSTED inspections.
With respect to your daughters 5 day exclusion, one major aspect of a school entering special measures is that the new management team will want to reinforce/strengthen pupil discipline. As a result, they will undoubtedly want to rigidly enforce any tampering with fire safety equipment, so I suspect that you may just have to take this on the chin. It may also be useful for your daughter to know that intentionally interfering with fire safety equipment is illegal and can result in a fine.
Exactly.With respect to your daughters 5 day exclusion, one major aspect of a school entering special measures is that the new management team will want to reinforce/strengthen pupil discipline. As a result, they will undoubtedly want to rigidly enforce any tampering with fire safety equipment, so I suspect that you may just have to take this on the chin. It may also be useful for your daughter to know that intentionally interfering with fire safety equipment is illegal and can result in a fine.
Unless the child's 'special needs' extend to not understanding that setting off the alarm is unacceptable, child and parents need to sort themselves out and take some f
king responsibility.CoolHands said:
I couldn’t ascertain from your post whether she has or hasn’t got an ehcp (ie is statemented). If she has then the old school can’t have just taken it away and the new one reinstated it, as it is a long process.
From what the OP says she was K coded when she arrived at the new school, i.e. on the SEN register but not with an EHCP.sim72 said:
From what the OP says she was K coded when she arrived at the new school, i.e. on the SEN register but not with an EHCP.
She was K coded when leaving primary and going to first secondary, then this secondary recoded her prior to the SEN lead taking long term sick.I was advised to get EHCP but the school didn't want to me to go down that route and the current SEN lead was managing the situation. She used to use a Zen Den area to do work if the lessons were too much for her (Auditable Stimulation) but the new head has removed these.
They also lost her SEN information until I made a complaint and it was reinstated.
I have asked for doctors for a referral to a paediatrician but they want a letter from the school advising their position.
I also known a child who has an EHCP and she is getting many issues but it does formalise the position.
Basically the 2 SEN staff she worked with 1 is off sick, 1 has left at xmas.
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