Will & executors
Discussion
Father passed away a few days ago so started sorting his affairs, death cert etc.
In his will, which he left with the rest of paperwork, I’m one of four executors & 4 beneficiaries.
Secured his house, the other executors I’m trying to contact. Only I had access to his house. Got rid of food & cleaned/washed up etc but can I start clearing what I think of as junk like mattresses, old towels and so on or do the others executors need to view & agree what’s in there?
In his will, which he left with the rest of paperwork, I’m one of four executors & 4 beneficiaries.
Secured his house, the other executors I’m trying to contact. Only I had access to his house. Got rid of food & cleaned/washed up etc but can I start clearing what I think of as junk like mattresses, old towels and so on or do the others executors need to view & agree what’s in there?
Just been through this. Lawyer was appointed as joint executor along with myself and my late sister. No problem clearing the house, and also claiming costs for clearance and deep clean / ongoing maintenance of the property. So long as I keep track and the cost if justified (e.g. garden maint, boiler service, etc) then I get reimbursed almost immediately. Can't sell the house or even arrange homowners report until probate is granted.
Though we managed to sell some of his furniture, we donated the income to the RNLI (which my Dad would have wanted) and the co-executor was quite happy about this, as she had simply written off his furniture etc due to its age.
For info, Dad died mid November, we delayed starting house clearance until start of February as we were away on holiday second half of January. Blitzed it in 3 weeks! Probate only got applied for this week (6th March) which we hope will be approved within 8 to 12 weeks (Dad had lots of shares etc that had to be resolved and also a Trust Fund for my grand-daughter, and separate share issues for his three grandsons)
Though we managed to sell some of his furniture, we donated the income to the RNLI (which my Dad would have wanted) and the co-executor was quite happy about this, as she had simply written off his furniture etc due to its age.
For info, Dad died mid November, we delayed starting house clearance until start of February as we were away on holiday second half of January. Blitzed it in 3 weeks! Probate only got applied for this week (6th March) which we hope will be approved within 8 to 12 weeks (Dad had lots of shares etc that had to be resolved and also a Trust Fund for my grand-daughter, and separate share issues for his three grandsons)
Edited by grumpyscot on Thursday 9th March 12:09
grumpyscot said:
Can't sell the house or even arrange homowners report until probate is granted.
The sale can't be completed but you can crack on with it, if you want to. When wife's Godfather died, his relatives arrived and cleared house next day (Friday) and over thw weeken, and had it on the market on Monday. Solicitor, who was Exectutor, wasn't too impressed!ThunderSpook said:
Strictly when you apply for probate these days, the other executors are supposed to give up their rights and only one should apply.
That's not the case at all. It's often more convenient for just one executor to take out probate, but there's certainly no "supposed to" about it, and there are many applications with joint executors. The court treat the application exactly the same whether there's just one or several executors.
Sheepshanks said:
grumpyscot said:
Can't sell the house or even arrange homowners report until probate is granted.
The sale can't be completed but you can crack on with it, if you want to. When wife's Godfather died, his relatives arrived and cleared house next day (Friday) and over thw weeken, and had it on the market on Monday. Solicitor, who was Exectutor, wasn't too impressed!Walking around the corner to the car at 5.30 I went past the old lady’s flat to see three or four relatives carrying various pieces of furniture out of the flat.
They could have at least waited till she was cold, but I reckon an hour after death is a record
Short answer : you can if you know there will be no problems with the other executors disagreeing with what you have done. If you are "trying to contact" them then I suspect that you do not yet know this so probably best to do nothing.
Long answer:
Legally, multiple executors have to work together and agree. If one executor acts alone, all of the executors are liable for that action as the law assumes that they acted as a group. Best way would be to get three of the executors to renounce or reserve their roles, assuming they all trust each other and you. In the UK they do this on form PA15 or PA25. They cannot be forced to renounce or reserve but in very, very limited circumstances they can be removed but it would involve the court and a sizeable bill.
Any executor who has started to deal with the estate cannot renounce or reserve. If the executors cannot agree on how to act, possibly best for them all to renounce and get a solicitor to do it (but expect a sizeable bill).
When my father died at the start of September, I was one of three executors named but the only one still alive. Had to provide death certificates for the other two executors, who would also have been beneficiaries.
Probate took 7 days including the bank holiday for the Queen's funeral. Submitted to the court on 14th, issued on 20th. The only good thing about the Isle of Man (apart from there being no inheritance tax but there is a sliding scale of probate fees based on the estimated size of estate).
Sale of his house completed last Tuesday. Just waiting for the final gas bill and for the civil service pension to stop being utterly hopeless and pay the arrears. Once I have those I can distribute the estate and send the estate accounts (just a list of beneficiaries and the amount received by each) to the IoM Treasury. Seems like I will be closing the estate in less time than some in the UK take to get probate!
Long answer:
Legally, multiple executors have to work together and agree. If one executor acts alone, all of the executors are liable for that action as the law assumes that they acted as a group. Best way would be to get three of the executors to renounce or reserve their roles, assuming they all trust each other and you. In the UK they do this on form PA15 or PA25. They cannot be forced to renounce or reserve but in very, very limited circumstances they can be removed but it would involve the court and a sizeable bill.
Any executor who has started to deal with the estate cannot renounce or reserve. If the executors cannot agree on how to act, possibly best for them all to renounce and get a solicitor to do it (but expect a sizeable bill).
When my father died at the start of September, I was one of three executors named but the only one still alive. Had to provide death certificates for the other two executors, who would also have been beneficiaries.
Probate took 7 days including the bank holiday for the Queen's funeral. Submitted to the court on 14th, issued on 20th. The only good thing about the Isle of Man (apart from there being no inheritance tax but there is a sliding scale of probate fees based on the estimated size of estate).
Sale of his house completed last Tuesday. Just waiting for the final gas bill and for the civil service pension to stop being utterly hopeless and pay the arrears. Once I have those I can distribute the estate and send the estate accounts (just a list of beneficiaries and the amount received by each) to the IoM Treasury. Seems like I will be closing the estate in less time than some in the UK take to get probate!
Thanks everyone for the replies. I’ve just cracked on with it, managed to speak to the rest of the executors and they’re good with me doing so. Death registered and certs received, funeral arranged, one click Gov done, council tax done. Not telling banks yet as direct debits for energy etc still ongoing as probate is taking 5-6 months!
Solicitor needs estimate of house value, bank accounts etc then can apply for probate. Will contact others to pass me as sole executor.
Lot of work, reminder to get my affairs together..
Solicitor needs estimate of house value, bank accounts etc then can apply for probate. Will contact others to pass me as sole executor.
Lot of work, reminder to get my affairs together..
My late father has his ex partner (long story) named as executor in his will, then her daughter and one of my cousins, the Ex has changed locks on house via locksmith and refused me access to the place, I have the death certificate and ive had him cremated as that's what he wanted. I have put a caveat in to stop probate, Question I have is can she start the will process without death certificate and the caveat in place?
dfen5 said:
Thanks everyone for the replies. I’ve just cracked on with it, managed to speak to the rest of the executors and they’re good with me doing so. Death registered and certs received, funeral arranged, one click Gov done, council tax done. Not telling banks yet as direct debits for energy etc still ongoing as probate is taking 5-6 months!
Solicitor needs estimate of house value, bank accounts etc then can apply for probate. Will contact others to pass me as sole executor.
Lot of work, reminder to get my affairs together..
Sorry if this is a stupid question but do you plan on appointing the solicitor to act on your behalf for everything or just applying for probate? Solicitor needs estimate of house value, bank accounts etc then can apply for probate. Will contact others to pass me as sole executor.
Lot of work, reminder to get my affairs together..
I'd be wary about instructing a solicitor to act until all of the others have formally renounced or "reserved their power"
Where money and wills are concerned people can behave in very "strange" ways.......don't ask me how I know!
Fozziebear said:
My late father has his ex partner (long story) named as executor in his will, then her daughter and one of my cousins, the Ex has changed locks on house via locksmith and refused me access to the place, I have the death certificate and ive had him cremated as that's what he wanted. I have put a caveat in to stop probate, Question I have is can she start the will process without death certificate and the caveat in place?
Your caveat will stop them getting probate and you will then be served a "warning" asking you to file and serve an "appearance" i.e. justify why you have the caveat in place and on exactly what grounds you are objecting to her / them obtaining probate.Just a reminder that you need to renew a caveat every 6 months up until serve your Appearance to Warning and it is accepted by the Court. However you can't just stop probate for no good legal reason.
eta IANAL but suggest you consult an ACTAPS lawyer before you do much more.
Edited by LimmerickLad on Friday 10th March 10:38
I'd be a bit concerned by some of the comments, and actions, outlined above.
If people don't know whether or not what they want to do is legal they should really get a bit of advice - if cost is a concern, it can be just from a Citizens Advice Bureau or a solicitor that offers cheap brief meetings.
Much of an executor's duties are straightforward but those appointed need to ensure that they are allowed to do what they want to do - and that the Will and/or any other executors are fully aligned.
If people don't know whether or not what they want to do is legal they should really get a bit of advice - if cost is a concern, it can be just from a Citizens Advice Bureau or a solicitor that offers cheap brief meetings.
Much of an executor's duties are straightforward but those appointed need to ensure that they are allowed to do what they want to do - and that the Will and/or any other executors are fully aligned.
Can I recommend that rather than just talking to everyone you set up a group chat such as Whatsapp. From recent experience years after the fact you may get issues and arguments arise about who said or did what and who took what. Its very useful to be able to refer back to electronic communications. Include photos within the chat also.
LimmerickLad said:
Fozziebear said:
My late father has his ex partner (long story) named as executor in his will, then her daughter and one of my cousins, the Ex has changed locks on house via locksmith and refused me access to the place, I have the death certificate and ive had him cremated as that's what he wanted. I have put a caveat in to stop probate, Question I have is can she start the will process without death certificate and the caveat in place?
Your caveat will stop them getting probate and you will then be served a "warning" asking you to file and serve an "appearance" i.e. justify why you have the caveat in place and on exactly what grounds you are objecting to her / them obtaining probate.Just a reminder that you need to renew a caveat every 6 months up until serve your Appearance to Warning and it is accepted by the Court. However you can't just stop probate for no good legal reason.
eta IANAL but suggest you consult an ACTAPS lawyer before you do much more.
Edited by LimmerickLad on Friday 10th March 10:38
Fozziebear said:
LimmerickLad said:
Fozziebear said:
My late father has his ex partner (long story) named as executor in his will, then her daughter and one of my cousins, the Ex has changed locks on house via locksmith and refused me access to the place, I have the death certificate and ive had him cremated as that's what he wanted. I have put a caveat in to stop probate, Question I have is can she start the will process without death certificate and the caveat in place?
Your caveat will stop them getting probate and you will then be served a "warning" asking you to file and serve an "appearance" i.e. justify why you have the caveat in place and on exactly what grounds you are objecting to her / them obtaining probate.Just a reminder that you need to renew a caveat every 6 months up until serve your Appearance to Warning and it is accepted by the Court. However you can't just stop probate for no good legal reason.
eta IANAL but suggest you consult an ACTAPS lawyer before you do much more.
Edited by LimmerickLad on Friday 10th March 10:38
LimmerickLad said:
Surely that would all be covered in the Will?
She abandoned him in may last year, basically went to Essex from Devon for medical treatment with no intention to return, my father couldn't really process it and I had to deal with finances etc, never changed his will so she gets the estate/home, her will mirrors his. my biggest worry is she changes her will and sells the house, the proceeds then vanish, its the grandkids inheritance that's lost. She's terminal, but an unpleasant person, I didn't go to his remembrance celebration as my sister invited herFozziebear said:
LimmerickLad said:
Surely that would all be covered in the Will?
She abandoned him in may last year, basically went to Essex from Devon for medical treatment with no intention to return, my father couldn't really process it and I had to deal with finances etc, never changed his will so she gets the estate/home, her will mirrors his. my biggest worry is she changes her will and sells the house, the proceeds then vanish, its the grandkids inheritance that's lost. She's terminal, but an unpleasant person, I didn't go to his remembrance celebration as my sister invited herGassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff