Driving in a bus lane: is the white line part of the lane?
Driving in a bus lane: is the white line part of the lane?
Author
Discussion

damonbill

Original Poster:

251 posts

267 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Advice needed (preferably with some legal backing...)

I've just got a PCN for driving in a bus lane, and the photo evidence shows my front left wheel on the white line, but not crossing into the bus lane. So, is the thick white line part of the bus lane or not?

I cant find clarity in the highway code. I saw somewhere that this line is the demarcation of the bus lane, but surely it demarks the lane i'm supposed to be in too?

Surely this must have been contested before??


hunton69

674 posts

159 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Sorry can’t help as no idea of the legislation.
But it doesn’t appear that you never drove in a bus lane if your wheel is on the white line.
Interested to here the outcome

gt_12345

1,873 posts

57 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Even if your tyre did cross, I would expect the law states it needs to be for a consistent amount of time, not just a quick second.

Dingu

4,893 posts

52 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
I’m sure someone has posted a flow chart, probably from TFL before running through decision points around how far/long/any impact etc. Naturally different councils may do things differently. Seems incredibly harsh though irrespective of where the line is drawn.

leef44

5,147 posts

175 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
If we were using sports rules then officially you are still inside your lane e.g. F1, tennis, football.

But when it comes to fines, there's probably no sportsmanship or should I say sportspersonship.

speedking31

3,810 posts

158 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Where was your door mirror? </pedant council>

Collectingbrass

2,678 posts

217 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
For your wheel to be on the white line, enough of the car would be into the bus lane as to have hindered the progression of a bus or taxi in the lane.

For what's worth, from an engineering measurement perspective the bus lane starts at the edge of the white line adjacent the live traffic lane, what that means legally I'm not sure.

K4sper

355 posts

94 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
leef44 said:
If we were using sports rules then officially you are still inside your lane e.g. F1, tennis, football.
but touching the line is "out" in e.g. rugby? rotate

davek_964

10,626 posts

197 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
I've always consciously thought that I must not touch the line, because I was absolutely sure that did count as the bus lane. But I'm not sure where that conviction actually comes from.

Evil.soup

4,047 posts

227 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Are you able to post the photo? It would certainly help clarify things. If your wheel just went onto the white line a little but you did not drive into the lane, I would imagine you could appeal your case. I assume the picture was either from a traffic cam or a bus cam, if from a bus cam, it could show that your position caused an obstruction, or not...

Trevatanus

11,349 posts

172 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
"White Lines!"

Don't do it smile

Griffith4ever

6,294 posts

57 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
gt_12345 said:
Even if your tyre did cross, I would expect the law states it needs to be for a consistent amount of time, not just a quick second.
You clearly haven't lived in London ! :--)

nutsyH

614 posts

220 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
leef44 said:
If we were using sports rules then officially you are still inside your lane e.g. F1, tennis, football.

But when it comes to fines, there's probably no sportsmanship or should I say sportspersonship.
Yes, but in rugby union the line is out.

stubert_

88 posts

105 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Trevatanus said:
"White Lines!"

Don't do it smile
He should have got higher (so he could see the line better)

The Wookie

14,186 posts

250 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
TFL clearly taking lessons from MSUK judges of fact hehe

Griffith4ever

6,294 posts

57 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
stubert_ said:
Trevatanus said:
"White Lines!"

Don't do it smile
He should have got higher (so he could see the line better)
But he'd have never come down.

jfdi

1,301 posts

197 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Griffith4ever said:
stubert_ said:
Trevatanus said:
"White Lines!"

Don't do it smile
He should have got higher (so he could see the line better)
But he'd have never come down.
Ah..

Trevatanus

11,349 posts

172 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Griffith4ever said:
stubert_ said:
Trevatanus said:
"White Lines!"

Don't do it smile
He should have got higher (so he could see the line better)
But he'd have never come down.
Freebase!

Cliftonite

8,673 posts

160 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all

It is surely a reflection on the nasty society that we have allowed to develop that this "transgression" is of any importance whatsoever!

IANAL but de minimis is what this is, surely. Would this really be allowed to progress to Court?

Whatever happened to decency and commonsense?

i4got

5,921 posts

100 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
This is from Pepipoo which indicates you need to actually cross the white line and stay crossed for 20 metres.

The 20 metre rule - The guidelines for enforcement of bus lanes in London (and elsewhere) state that the operator should observe a vehicle travelling along a bus lane for at least 20 metres before he issues a Penalty Charge Notice. We hear of many instances where vehicles receive a penalty charge notice when they have clearly not travelled along a bus lane for 20 meters. For example simply cutting off the end of a bus lane or not able to avoid the first couple of metres or swinging in and out when a car in front suddenly stops. Councils are aware of this guideline but quite often ignore it. If you have received a PCN in these circumstances you should immediately write to the local council and point out that they did not operate within the guidelines. You could even complain to the local government ombudsman. There is also something called the crossover exemption and the adjudicators have also mentioned the 20 metre rule in relation to this exemption. (see cases below) 20 Metres is approximately 5 car lengths. There are exceptions for example if the bus lane itself is less than 20 meters long.



A bus lane contravention is a contravention of any provision of a traffic order relating to use of an area of road that is or forms part of a bus lane. A contravention normally begins where a vehicle breaks and crosses the solid white boundary line between the bus lane and the remainder of the carriageway without good reason during its time of operation (but see below for bus and tram gates).If the vehicle enters a bus lane it should proceed for more than 20 metres (approx 4/5 continuous car lengths) after so entering. A bus gate or tram gate is a point restriction, therefore the contravention commences when the vehicle enters the gate.