Towing an over-weight trailer
Discussion
OK so I'll start with an ~ 'Ive been told ….' and they're usually both nonsense and a touch irritating ……..
'Ive been told' ~ ~ that if I have a vehicle with a towing capacity of 3500kgs and the loaded trailer itself is in excess of the limit of 3500kgs, by fitting a tachograph so the maximum gross weight could or would be considered as 7 tons. I would normally consider such a claim to be nonsense, except that I did once have a Toyota 4x4 (Hilux?) pick-up and that had been previously fitted with a tachograph.
I would underline here that I am NOT trying to circumvent the rules, regs and Laws just for the sake of it, it's just that the trailer which I am currently having purpose built, and despite my very best efforts, my well exceed the gross weight of 3500kgs.
Is anyone aware of any changes that I may be able to make to my employed system which would satisfy the legal requirements for a road going vehicle? The vehicle that I intend using would probably be a VW Touareg.
Assuming that there are no steps that I can take to allow me to stay within the Laws of our lands, can anyone hazard a guess as to why my Hilux had a tachograph fitted?
I would be grateful for the considered opinions of those in the know ……..
'Ive been told' ~ ~ that if I have a vehicle with a towing capacity of 3500kgs and the loaded trailer itself is in excess of the limit of 3500kgs, by fitting a tachograph so the maximum gross weight could or would be considered as 7 tons. I would normally consider such a claim to be nonsense, except that I did once have a Toyota 4x4 (Hilux?) pick-up and that had been previously fitted with a tachograph.
I would underline here that I am NOT trying to circumvent the rules, regs and Laws just for the sake of it, it's just that the trailer which I am currently having purpose built, and despite my very best efforts, my well exceed the gross weight of 3500kgs.
Is anyone aware of any changes that I may be able to make to my employed system which would satisfy the legal requirements for a road going vehicle? The vehicle that I intend using would probably be a VW Touareg.
Assuming that there are no steps that I can take to allow me to stay within the Laws of our lands, can anyone hazard a guess as to why my Hilux had a tachograph fitted?
I would be grateful for the considered opinions of those in the know ……..
Edited by Me Alec on Sunday 12th March 08:57
Edited by Me Alec on Sunday 12th March 08:57
Isn’t the limit for the Touareg 3500kg whether you have a tacho or not? Fitting a tacho doesn’t up the towing capacity. It will be needed if you are using it for hire or reward (business use). You may also find that if you do use a Touareg, as it’s over 2T, you’ll need an operators license too. You’ll need to be the transport manager and have maintenance plan in place. I “think” you need £8k in holding for any unexpected bills too? It’s been a while since I looked though. We have a few owner operators collecting from work. Must run pickups.
All the above might also be wrong!
All the above might also be wrong!
MDMA . said:
Isn’t the limit for the Touareg 3500kg whether you have a tacho or not? Fitting a tacho doesn’t up the towing capacity. It will be needed if you are using it for hire or reward (business use). You may also find that if you do use a Touareg, as it’s over 2T, you’ll need an operators license too. You’ll need to be the transport manager and have maintenance plan in place. I “think” you need £8k in holding for any unexpected bills too? It’s been a while since I looked though. We have a few owner operators collecting from work. Must run pickups.
All the above might also be wrong!
Regarding the requirement for a separate license, according to my google research, which I'll accept may well be wrong, as I passed my test in 1969 so I have what are referred to as 'Granddad rights' …. the trailer and my usage of it are private and not involved as part of a business. All the above might also be wrong!
I agree with you, it wouldn't seem to make much sense that simply slapping a tachograph on to a vehicle would increase its towing capacity …. everyone would be doing it!
It's a minefield as trailers over 3.5t max need a different licence as well. i.e. B+E would not cover it.
If you're running vehicle combinations over 3.5t for business then you may well fall under tacho and O Licence requirements.
There are some exemptions for "Dual Purpose Vehicles".
A Touareg is a passenger vehicle, so not a Dual Purpose Vehicle or a Goods Vehicle.
The rules are designed for Goods Vehicles so you may be totally exempt with a Touareg but you should clarify.
You can legally exceed the towing weight of a vehicle as long as the gross train weight is not exceeded, but this would only work where the towing capacity is lower, as going over 3.5t gives other issues such as driving licence.
The trailer itself will also become O3 category as well, which brings in more rules.
If you're running vehicle combinations over 3.5t for business then you may well fall under tacho and O Licence requirements.
There are some exemptions for "Dual Purpose Vehicles".
A Touareg is a passenger vehicle, so not a Dual Purpose Vehicle or a Goods Vehicle.
The rules are designed for Goods Vehicles so you may be totally exempt with a Touareg but you should clarify.
You can legally exceed the towing weight of a vehicle as long as the gross train weight is not exceeded, but this would only work where the towing capacity is lower, as going over 3.5t gives other issues such as driving licence.
The trailer itself will also become O3 category as well, which brings in more rules.
I thought that you had to respect the vehicle manufacturer's maximum towing rating and the maximum GTW?
That's completely separate from what you're licensed to drive.
Also the trailer will need an IVA, where it will be plated with a Maximum Authorised Mass, which will be its max loaded weight.
Your and your car need to be good for this MAM, even if you are towing it empty.
You can't tow an empty yacht trailer with a small car, even though they don't weigh much empty.
Well you can, but you don't want to get pulled over.....
That's completely separate from what you're licensed to drive.
Also the trailer will need an IVA, where it will be plated with a Maximum Authorised Mass, which will be its max loaded weight.
Your and your car need to be good for this MAM, even if you are towing it empty.
You can't tow an empty yacht trailer with a small car, even though they don't weigh much empty.
Well you can, but you don't want to get pulled over.....
OutInTheShed said:
Your and your car need to be good for this MAM, even if you are towing it empty.
You can't tow an empty yacht trailer with a small car, even though they don't weigh much empty.
Well you can, but you don't want to get pulled over.....
I'm pretty sure this isn't correct.You can't tow an empty yacht trailer with a small car, even though they don't weigh much empty.
Well you can, but you don't want to get pulled over.....
journeymanpro said:
Because it is indeed incorrect
Are you sure about that? Why would people bother 'down plating' trailers if the MAM doesn't matter?
Allegedly a car can get a bit squirrelly with an empty yacht trailer on the back, because the brakes and suspension are set up for a loaded trailer.
julianm said:
What are the chances of a Toyota Hilux towing a double axle trailer with a similar Hilux on it being within the regulations?
The towing capacity of a Toyota Hilux, according to a quick google is 2250 kgs. My 16' flatbed weighs 830kgs and the kerb weight of a Hilux appears to be 1880kgs. So and to answer your question, it would seem that if a Hilux has a towing capacity of only 2250kgs then with a combined and loaded trailer weight of 2710kgs, then (and in the case of my trailer) it would be app. 500kgs overweight.
The only question mark which hovers over this for me is the kerb weight of the Hilux …. are they really 1880kgs?
Thanks for the reply Alec - apologies for butting in.
I see that combination quite often locally & it seems a bit `wrong` to me.
I did have a look & the 2021 Hilux seems to have a towing capacity of 3500kg - I assume there are decent trailer brakes these days but wouldn't like to have one behind me on some North Yorks descents!
I see that combination quite often locally & it seems a bit `wrong` to me.
I did have a look & the 2021 Hilux seems to have a towing capacity of 3500kg - I assume there are decent trailer brakes these days but wouldn't like to have one behind me on some North Yorks descents!
Me Alec said:
it's just that the trailer which I am currently having purpose built, and despite my very best efforts, my well exceed the gross weight of 3500kgs.
I can't see any way around needing a C1 vehicle rated to tow over 3500kg and a C1E license. Also, a standard 50mm hitch is only rated to 3500kg...
Has your trailer builder ever built anything like this before?
Op,
The first imperitive is do NOT allow that trailer to end up with a gross weight over 3.5t
That on its own wrecks your plans, primarily doe to the tow hitch. After that, everything else.
Then, once you've fixed this bit you can worry about what to tow it with.
Having read the thread, if I were you I'd be finding the money for a 5tonne (gross weight) Iveco or Sprinter.
Then, on your license you're ok as you will have C1E. This enables up to 7.5t gross to drive. 3.5t to tow. Gross train weight 12t.
Gross train weight does not combine the weights to distribute however you wish. The maximum you can tow without holding a full fat HGV license is 3.5t.
The first imperitive is do NOT allow that trailer to end up with a gross weight over 3.5t
That on its own wrecks your plans, primarily doe to the tow hitch. After that, everything else.
Then, once you've fixed this bit you can worry about what to tow it with.
Having read the thread, if I were you I'd be finding the money for a 5tonne (gross weight) Iveco or Sprinter.
Then, on your license you're ok as you will have C1E. This enables up to 7.5t gross to drive. 3.5t to tow. Gross train weight 12t.
Gross train weight does not combine the weights to distribute however you wish. The maximum you can tow without holding a full fat HGV license is 3.5t.
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