Parking fine - unusual situation & appeal dismissed
Discussion
Hello,
We have had our appeal against a Parking Fine (in Scotland) dismissed by POPLA, is anyone able to advise what we could/should do now (if anything);
Pay the fine
Continue to ignore
Try another route of appeal
To summarise:
Visited an Xmas Visit Santa with the kids on Xmas Eve
Car park had notices to pay for parking via parking app RingGo (which we didn't have)
Other option was to phone and pay for parking using a location code (which we did)
When doing this we entered the wrong code in error - we entered 3416 instead of 34816.
We paid the amount requested on the phone (which was £2.20). The correct amount using the correct code would have been £3 according to RingGo.
We received an aggressive letter on 4th January from Minster Baywatch which stated that we hadn't paid for our parking, providing us with a £100 fine for doing so.
The payment was made, and we feel that an administrative error such as this should not result in a parking fine.
- Appeal rejected by Minster Baywatch - stating that payment was made for their Maidstone Car Park Anton Long Mill (code 3416) as opposed to New Lanark (34816). 1 digit has been missed somewhere in the process.
3416 car park is Anton Long Mill
34816 car park is New Lanark Mill
Evidence of our payment has been provided to Minster Baywatch and POPLA.
There is a photograph of our car at New Lanark Mill on the day in question.
Is there anything else we can do?
It seems very unfair, this was an honest mistake, we made a genuine attempt to pay the parking charge.
PoPLA have dismissed our appeal also.
Many thanks
We have had our appeal against a Parking Fine (in Scotland) dismissed by POPLA, is anyone able to advise what we could/should do now (if anything);
Pay the fine
Continue to ignore
Try another route of appeal
To summarise:
Visited an Xmas Visit Santa with the kids on Xmas Eve
Car park had notices to pay for parking via parking app RingGo (which we didn't have)
Other option was to phone and pay for parking using a location code (which we did)
When doing this we entered the wrong code in error - we entered 3416 instead of 34816.
We paid the amount requested on the phone (which was £2.20). The correct amount using the correct code would have been £3 according to RingGo.
We received an aggressive letter on 4th January from Minster Baywatch which stated that we hadn't paid for our parking, providing us with a £100 fine for doing so.
The payment was made, and we feel that an administrative error such as this should not result in a parking fine.
- Appeal rejected by Minster Baywatch - stating that payment was made for their Maidstone Car Park Anton Long Mill (code 3416) as opposed to New Lanark (34816). 1 digit has been missed somewhere in the process.
3416 car park is Anton Long Mill
34816 car park is New Lanark Mill
Evidence of our payment has been provided to Minster Baywatch and POPLA.
There is a photograph of our car at New Lanark Mill on the day in question.
Is there anything else we can do?
It seems very unfair, this was an honest mistake, we made a genuine attempt to pay the parking charge.
PoPLA have dismissed our appeal also.
Many thanks
If you went into your local supermarket, weighed a £12.00 steak and put the code in on the scales for a £2 bag of oranges, would you expect to be pulled at the exit & claim that you tried to pay and expect to get away with it?
Sorry, but deliberate or genuine error does not change the error, you didn't pay for what you used so I would have zero expectation of a positive outcome.
It sounds harsh, it isn't meant to but I see no other outcome really.
Sorry, but deliberate or genuine error does not change the error, you didn't pay for what you used so I would have zero expectation of a positive outcome.
It sounds harsh, it isn't meant to but I see no other outcome really.
E-bmw said:
If you went into your local supermarket, weighed a £12.00 steak and put the code in on the scales for a £2 bag of oranges, would you expect to be pulled at the exit & claim that you tried to pay and expect to get away with it?
Sorry, but deliberate or genuine error does not change the error, you didn't pay for what you used so I would have zero expectation of a positive outcome.
It sounds harsh, it isn't meant to but I see no other outcome really.
Or more reasonably, if I went into my local supermarket, weighed in a £3 pack of peaches and put the code in on the scales for a £2.20 bag of oranges, I'd expect to be offered the chance to pay the difference or told not to worry about it.Sorry, but deliberate or genuine error does not change the error, you didn't pay for what you used so I would have zero expectation of a positive outcome.
It sounds harsh, it isn't meant to but I see no other outcome really.
E-bmw said:
If you went into your local supermarket, weighed a £12.00 steak and put the code in on the scales for a £2 bag of oranges, would you expect to be pulled at the exit & claim that you tried to pay and expect to get away with it?
Sorry, but deliberate or genuine error does not change the error, you didn't pay for what you used so I would have zero expectation of a positive outcome.
It sounds harsh, it isn't meant to but I see no other outcome really.
Would you expect a £100 fine for a genuine mistake which cost 80p? I think the fine is more to do with us paying for the parking at a different location, rather than being 80p short on any case. Sorry, but deliberate or genuine error does not change the error, you didn't pay for what you used so I would have zero expectation of a positive outcome.
It sounds harsh, it isn't meant to but I see no other outcome really.
Unreal said:
Or more reasonably, if I went into my local supermarket, weighed in a £3 pack of peaches and put the code in on the scales for a £2.20 bag of oranges, I'd expect to be offered the chance to pay the difference or told not to worry about it.
This is what i would have expected to be reasonable...See the BPA Code of Practice section 10. That will apply as the parking co must be a BPA member if the appeal was via POPLA.
That says a £20 admin fee is reasonable if you get one character wrong entering the registration number. Nothing about wrong location code, though you'd think the same should apply. Of course the fee could be different and go to the wrong parking co in that case.
That says a £20 admin fee is reasonable if you get one character wrong entering the registration number. Nothing about wrong location code, though you'd think the same should apply. Of course the fee could be different and go to the wrong parking co in that case.
Not sure about Scotland, but in E&W, the new guidance is to appeal these parking invoices as the Registered Keeper only and NEVER as the driver.
To pursue the RK under POFA they must send their invoice within 14 days, which many of them fail to do so, but they will still pursue their chance at free money.
The RK is under no legal obligation to identify or name the driver. You still have to go through the Private Parking Companies appeal process, they will likely issue a POPLA code for you to appeal, hoping you will fold and send them free money. POPLA should throw it out.
I've successfully used this 3 times for my Dad.
When the guy who drafted the POFA Act was interviewed, he said it wasn't an error with a knowing wink.
To pursue the RK under POFA they must send their invoice within 14 days, which many of them fail to do so, but they will still pursue their chance at free money.
The RK is under no legal obligation to identify or name the driver. You still have to go through the Private Parking Companies appeal process, they will likely issue a POPLA code for you to appeal, hoping you will fold and send them free money. POPLA should throw it out.
I've successfully used this 3 times for my Dad.
When the guy who drafted the POFA Act was interviewed, he said it wasn't an error with a knowing wink.
sam1176uk said:
At no point has the driver been declared by us.
The invoice was received within the 14 days.
We did get a POPLA code but the appeal was unsuccessful, don't know why, it just stated that we didn't pay the correct parking charge and therefore the fine was correctly issued.
POPLA do get it wrong. The invoice was received within the 14 days.
We did get a POPLA code but the appeal was unsuccessful, don't know why, it just stated that we didn't pay the correct parking charge and therefore the fine was correctly issued.
The basis of the appeal as the RK is that you don't know/don't have to name the driver and that's it in a nutshell, so any argument about payment is moot. If you mentioned payment then that could have swayed the POPLA assessor.
sam1176uk said:
So if POPLA get it wrong, what are our options?
Pay up or wait up to six years for a County Court claim. Meanwhile try Pepipoo as it's more than likely the parking co have not fully complied with POFA (Protection of Freedoms Act) so cannot transfer liability from the driver (who they don't know) to you, the registered keeper. That's a guaranteed win in court.Nimby said:
sam1176uk said:
So if POPLA get it wrong, what are our options?
Pay up or wait up to six years for a County Court claim. Meanwhile try Pepipoo as it's more than likely the parking co have not fully complied with POFA (Protection of Freedoms Act) so cannot transfer liability from the driver (who they don't know) to you, the registered keeper. That's a guaranteed win in court."Can I appeal a POPLA decision?
You cannot appeal a decision made by POPLA. If you strongly believe that the parking fine shouldn’t stand but have been told to pay, the only remaining option is legal action. However, this could become more costly than the fine itself. You should seek professional legal advice to discuss your options."
POPLA say that you cannot appeal their decision. Their advice is to pay the invoice or seek advice from the CAB. The only way you can complain about POPLA is in regard to their standard of service/timescales etc.
sam1176uk said:
So if POPLA get it wrong, what are our options?
Popla got it wrong in my case, the parking company sent about 8 threatening letters, I refused to pay, and haven't heard anything since.They will probably threaten "costs" but that's not how the small claim court works, costs can't be claimed. I say wait it out, probably nothing will ever come of it.
vikingaero said:
Not sure about Scotland, but in E&W, the new guidance is to appeal these parking invoices as the Registered Keeper only and NEVER as the driver.
To pursue the RK under POFA they must send their invoice within 14 days, which many of them fail to do so, but they will still pursue their chance at free money.
The RK is under no legal obligation to identify or name the driver. You still have to go through the Private Parking Companies appeal process, they will likely issue a POPLA code for you to appeal, hoping you will fold and send them free money. POPLA should throw it out.
I've successfully used this 3 times for my Dad.
When the guy who drafted the POFA Act was interviewed, he said it wasn't an error with a knowing wink.
There seems to be an entire cottage industry for people avoiding paying these parking charge notices, now with some loophole chasing about registered keeper versus driver.To pursue the RK under POFA they must send their invoice within 14 days, which many of them fail to do so, but they will still pursue their chance at free money.
The RK is under no legal obligation to identify or name the driver. You still have to go through the Private Parking Companies appeal process, they will likely issue a POPLA code for you to appeal, hoping you will fold and send them free money. POPLA should throw it out.
I've successfully used this 3 times for my Dad.
When the guy who drafted the POFA Act was interviewed, he said it wasn't an error with a knowing wink.
In 35 years of driving I've had one parking fine - which I was bang to rights on and paid it. I've had a few nefarious 'fines' from PPCs but they've been quashed instantly by errors like cctv entry/exit times at hotels and so on.
OP aside, I can't help but feel there's a lot of serial offenders using such loopholes to try and get oof paying what they should be paying.
oyster said:
vikingaero said:
Not sure about Scotland, but in E&W, the new guidance is to appeal these parking invoices as the Registered Keeper only and NEVER as the driver.
To pursue the RK under POFA they must send their invoice within 14 days, which many of them fail to do so, but they will still pursue their chance at free money.
The RK is under no legal obligation to identify or name the driver. You still have to go through the Private Parking Companies appeal process, they will likely issue a POPLA code for you to appeal, hoping you will fold and send them free money. POPLA should throw it out.
I've successfully used this 3 times for my Dad.
When the guy who drafted the POFA Act was interviewed, he said it wasn't an error with a knowing wink.
There seems to be an entire cottage industry for people avoiding paying these parking charge notices, now with some loophole chasing about registered keeper versus driver.To pursue the RK under POFA they must send their invoice within 14 days, which many of them fail to do so, but they will still pursue their chance at free money.
The RK is under no legal obligation to identify or name the driver. You still have to go through the Private Parking Companies appeal process, they will likely issue a POPLA code for you to appeal, hoping you will fold and send them free money. POPLA should throw it out.
I've successfully used this 3 times for my Dad.
When the guy who drafted the POFA Act was interviewed, he said it wasn't an error with a knowing wink.
In 35 years of driving I've had one parking fine - which I was bang to rights on and paid it. I've had a few nefarious 'fines' from PPCs but they've been quashed instantly by errors like cctv entry/exit times at hotels and so on.
OP aside, I can't help but feel there's a lot of serial offenders using such loopholes to try and get oof paying what they should be paying.
The problem are the scum industry that are Private Parking Companies that have emerged. Then I started receiving a few invoices despite complying. Appealed and cancelled, but nothing done to improve or correct their cameras. Then Lidl took over the industrial units where Vikingette1 went to gymnastics. At one stage I had 18 invoices all claiming I parked all day when in reality I dropped her off before 8am, and collected her after 5pm. I was expected to appeal each one. The PPC blanked me, Lidl refused to get involved and I got my MP involved who was utterly amazed at the responses/actions of Lidl and the PPC and they reluctantly cancelled them all as goodwill. At that time I had a N244 County Court claim form completed seeking an injunction under Protection of Harassment Act to get Lidl/PPC to stop issuing invoices to me and pay me damages for each one.
In my mind there's no difference between someone holding a knife and demanding £100 and a PPC sending false invoices. I'm amazed at the number of people at work and friends who simply bend over and pay the fine citing credit score/CCJ/stress/scared//debt collectors.etc. I'm determined to help everyone I can with advice and PPCs can go and f
k themselves.Vikingettes friends at Grammar school also had a problem with s PPC. They paid £30 per month to park in a large leisure centre and some of them started receiving invoices. I mentioned that if the low level camera somehow pointed towards the bushes, then it wouldn't recorded them coming in/out.
And the next day it was pointing skywards.OP pay the parking company the 80p you owe them along with a letter to them which explains your position.
If you really want to put it to bed then also pay them plus a small sum for their admin (I see above the BPA suggest £20).
This article has a good example.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/i-got-a-parki...
If you really want to put it to bed then also pay them plus a small sum for their admin (I see above the BPA suggest £20).
This article has a good example.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/i-got-a-parki...
Edited by Canon_Fodder on Friday 23 June 07:59
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