Someone randomly registered their car to our address
Discussion
Received a V5C completely out of the blue a month or so ago for someone who has never lived at the address, for a vehicle that likewise has never existed here. We've been here ~10 years and haven't received post for the previous owner for at least 9 1/2 years. The address is fairly rural, so there's no question of it being targeted at this address - rather than wrong flat number or whatever.
Predictably after a week or so the PCNs and NIPs started rolling in. Not as many as was anticipated, but a reasonably steady stream. I think we've probably had 6 or so by now.
We initially started responding to these letters, writing to the various councils and safety camera partnerships telling them what's up. Managed to get through to the DVLA after some effort and had confirmation that the vehicle was no longer registered to our address. We've been attaching confirmation of that to various responses we've sent.
We've got to the point now where either our correspondance has been ignored or disputed, with one of the PCNs progressing to a county court order. We spoke to the Police who basically just said we shouldn't have opened the mail at all, as that's against the Law, so - not particularly helpful. Most of the stuff we've received gives no return address, or the address on the back of the envelope says it doesn't accept mail.
Wondering what should be done from here really. Honestly a bit sick of replying to this stuff, costing X every time - as sending recorded delivery.
On the assumption that one or more of these things are going to progress to summons, default judgements, CCJs, etc if ignored - is that something that I should care about if it's not addressed to me personally? My main concern is bailiffs turning up and strongarming whoever answers the door when I'm not there.
Will it be good enough to simply cross out the address and put "Not known at this address - return to sender" on everything at this point, including court letters?
Predictably after a week or so the PCNs and NIPs started rolling in. Not as many as was anticipated, but a reasonably steady stream. I think we've probably had 6 or so by now.
We initially started responding to these letters, writing to the various councils and safety camera partnerships telling them what's up. Managed to get through to the DVLA after some effort and had confirmation that the vehicle was no longer registered to our address. We've been attaching confirmation of that to various responses we've sent.
We've got to the point now where either our correspondance has been ignored or disputed, with one of the PCNs progressing to a county court order. We spoke to the Police who basically just said we shouldn't have opened the mail at all, as that's against the Law, so - not particularly helpful. Most of the stuff we've received gives no return address, or the address on the back of the envelope says it doesn't accept mail.
Wondering what should be done from here really. Honestly a bit sick of replying to this stuff, costing X every time - as sending recorded delivery.
On the assumption that one or more of these things are going to progress to summons, default judgements, CCJs, etc if ignored - is that something that I should care about if it's not addressed to me personally? My main concern is bailiffs turning up and strongarming whoever answers the door when I'm not there.
Will it be good enough to simply cross out the address and put "Not known at this address - return to sender" on everything at this point, including court letters?
BoRED S2upid said:
I imagine the V5 wasn’t addressed to you?
Return to sender not known at this address.
It wasn't, no. That side of things is technically solved - DVLA told us it was no longer registered to our address.Return to sender not known at this address.
(As an aside - I'm wondering now whether this guy now has free reign to do what he wants, whether the car is now not registered to any address?)
It doesn't matter, if it's not in your name you won't have a court order against you, it will be the name of the registered keeper. And the police are correct, you never should have opened any mail not addressed to you. The correct thing to do would be to write "not at this address, return to sender" on the letter and pop it in a post box.
A default would be issued if you failed to keep up with a credit agreement, this has nothing to do with credit. If anything, if any authorities want to pursue the matter further, I'd imagine a warrant for arrest would be put out for the named registered keeper. Don't make your life difficult and don't send things back recorded, do as above.
As you've opened the mail, what car was it? If it's a worthless car, probably someone has bought it, registered to a random address in a fake name, had some cheap motoring whilst ignoring any rules and then no trace of them to suffer the consequences.
A default would be issued if you failed to keep up with a credit agreement, this has nothing to do with credit. If anything, if any authorities want to pursue the matter further, I'd imagine a warrant for arrest would be put out for the named registered keeper. Don't make your life difficult and don't send things back recorded, do as above.
As you've opened the mail, what car was it? If it's a worthless car, probably someone has bought it, registered to a random address in a fake name, had some cheap motoring whilst ignoring any rules and then no trace of them to suffer the consequences.
Edited by Alan16ac on Monday 27th March 11:17
Durzel said:
BoRED S2upid said:
I imagine the V5 wasn’t addressed to you?
Return to sender not known at this address.
It wasn't, no. That side of things is technically solved - DVLA told us it was no longer registered to our address.Return to sender not known at this address.
(As an aside - I'm wondering now whether this guy now has free reign to do what he wants, whether the car is now not registered to any address?)
I had the opposite side of this happen to me many years ago. DVLA misread my house number & by the time I realised & got in touch about it missing the incorrect addressee had returned it.
I had exactly the same happen to me/us a few months back:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I nipped it in the bud quite quickly by writing to the DVLA and returning the V5/C promptly.
So far, I've only had one Euro Car Parks charge through, that was cancelled straight away (to their credit). If you got a hard copy of a confirmation from the DVLA that the vehicle is disassociated from the address (as I did) I'm surprised any parking company is progressing further than payment reminders.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I nipped it in the bud quite quickly by writing to the DVLA and returning the V5/C promptly.
So far, I've only had one Euro Car Parks charge through, that was cancelled straight away (to their credit). If you got a hard copy of a confirmation from the DVLA that the vehicle is disassociated from the address (as I did) I'm surprised any parking company is progressing further than payment reminders.
E-bmw said:
Durzel said:
BoRED S2upid said:
I imagine the V5 wasn’t addressed to you?
Return to sender not known at this address.
It wasn't, no. That side of things is technically solved - DVLA told us it was no longer registered to our address.Return to sender not known at this address.
(As an aside - I'm wondering now whether this guy now has free reign to do what he wants, whether the car is now not registered to any address?)
I had the opposite side of this happen to me many years ago. DVLA misread my house number & by the time I realised & got in touch about it missing the incorrect addressee had returned it.
Alan16ac said:
Just edited my post, asking what car was it?
Would rather not go into too much detail, but it's a ~10 year old Audi - so not worthless but not new car money.adamlstr said:
I had exactly the same happen to me/us a few months back:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I nipped it in the bud quite quickly by writing to the DVLA and returning the V5/C promptly.
So far, I've only had one Euro Car Parks charge through, that was cancelled straight away (to their credit). If you got a hard copy of a confirmation from the DVLA that the vehicle is disassociated from the address (as I did) I'm surprised any parking company is progressing further than payment reminders.
Thanks, that's an interesting thread https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I nipped it in the bud quite quickly by writing to the DVLA and returning the V5/C promptly.
So far, I've only had one Euro Car Parks charge through, that was cancelled straight away (to their credit). If you got a hard copy of a confirmation from the DVLA that the vehicle is disassociated from the address (as I did) I'm surprised any parking company is progressing further than payment reminders.
At this point as said we'll just do the "Not at this address - return to sender" thing and post it back in a postbox.
Edited by Durzel on Monday 27th March 11:48
As far as I'm aware it's not an offence to open mail wrongly sent to your address. When mail arrives here I just open it. I don't bother looking to see who it's addressed to.
The Act reads: "A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person's detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him."
OP, you may be able to get some sort of dissassociation notice added to your credit file at Experian. Not sure if that'll help or how you go about it but it may be useful in future.
The Act reads: "A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person's detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him."
OP, you may be able to get some sort of dissassociation notice added to your credit file at Experian. Not sure if that'll help or how you go about it but it may be useful in future.
Edited by Boosted LS1 on Monday 27th March 11:58
The Police are wrong (and stupid). It is categorically NOT an offence to open mail sent to your address, so continue to open away. Once the Royal Mail deliver that is their part done and dusted. What is an offence is to open the mail and use the contents for pecuniary advantage or deception - for example using the bank card inside one of the envelopes.
I would stop paying for recorded delivery - emails on the appeals website and uploading a photo of the supporting documents will be fine.
The problem with marking mail with "Not at this address" is something a lot of debtors do to ignore demands for payment and most companies will ignore this. Better to open the letters, make sure the threatograms are not at a Court/Bailiff stage and write on something like "WARNING - addressee committing fraud." to get an action from them.
I would stop paying for recorded delivery - emails on the appeals website and uploading a photo of the supporting documents will be fine.
The problem with marking mail with "Not at this address" is something a lot of debtors do to ignore demands for payment and most companies will ignore this. Better to open the letters, make sure the threatograms are not at a Court/Bailiff stage and write on something like "WARNING - addressee committing fraud." to get an action from them.
Cold said:
It's not an offence to open post not addressed to you if you have a reasonable excuse to do so. Some might suggest your situation is a reasonable excuse.
According to what boosted posted there are two criteria to be satisfied to make it an offence. You have to have be intent on acting to the person's detriment and not have an excuse.So if you are not intent on acting detrimentally that's enough
I've been on the other end of this, purchased a car a year ago from a second hand dealer, and they did the logbook stuff online.
I taxed the car for a year using the new keeper slip and never thought much of it. I never received the logbook or reminders etc as it turns out the dealer had put someone elses completely different details in. Only noticed a year later when I had to renew the tax.
Spoke with DVLA and luckily whoever had received the log book had returned it to them, so they accepted there was a mistake, filled out a form and got a log book in the post. So I'd try to send it back if possible.
Never had this trouble with the old system as you filled in your details on the old logbook yourself.
Hopefully a load of tickets dont come through now!
I taxed the car for a year using the new keeper slip and never thought much of it. I never received the logbook or reminders etc as it turns out the dealer had put someone elses completely different details in. Only noticed a year later when I had to renew the tax.
Spoke with DVLA and luckily whoever had received the log book had returned it to them, so they accepted there was a mistake, filled out a form and got a log book in the post. So I'd try to send it back if possible.
Never had this trouble with the old system as you filled in your details on the old logbook yourself.
Hopefully a load of tickets dont come through now!
Boosted LS1 said:
As far as I'm aware it's not an offence to open mail wrongly sent to your address. When mail arrives here I just open it. I don't bother looking to see who it's addressed to.
Quite ....... and I would do the same , scan it (just in case) and then return to sender. Speak to Police and ask for a PNC report to be added to the number plate stating incorrect address possible clone vehicle.Sheepshanks said:
This happened to us a few years ago. Police turned up in the middle of the night.
I'd certainly be quite concerned about bailiffs if one of the cases looked like it was heading towards a CCJ.
Exactly. Without any formal legal experience, it certainly appears on those "pay or we take it away" type programmes that the burden of proof seems occasionally illogical, albeit the orders are against places of residence for individuals, rather than simply addresses that might be on a V5 ...... If the person named on the V5 isn't on the electoral register at your address, it's pretty obvious they don't live thereI'd certainly be quite concerned about bailiffs if one of the cases looked like it was heading towards a CCJ.
Durzel said:
Thanks, that's an interesting thread
At this point as said we'll just do the "Not at this address - return to sender" thing and post it back in a postbox.
Personally, I would open all correspondence, scan it, and archive it. Then email each debt agency with a copy of the claim and the DVLA letter, with a letter explaining the situation. Rather than rely on the 'return to sender' actually getting where it needs to be!At this point as said we'll just do the "Not at this address - return to sender" thing and post it back in a postbox.
Edited by Durzel on Monday 27th March 11:48
I've got a PDF "just in case" copy of the DVLA letter, my letter to the DVLA, and the ECP parking charge.
I had this a few years ago.
Informed DVLA and opened a few of the council parking tickets accumulating fines. I informed the council who wouldnt stop sending thefines and the bailiffs to my address without confirmation from the DVLA. The DVLA wrote me a letter which i passed on and the Council (Worcesterhire CC) wouldnt accept it as it wasnt direct from the DVLA and the DVLA wouldnt contact them directly.
I was then scolded (erroneously) by the couoncil case handler for opening the mail, which as above is pure toss providing i wasn't opening it to use to the recipients detriment. I had to escalate through the council complaints system while still receiving several bailiff visits in the mean time. My wife was very unhappy as it was her answering the door mostly whilst i was working.
Took months to square off with the council, a most unsatisfactory episode that shouldn't have been so hard to resolve.
Lots of hiding behind 'policy' and 'GDPR' by the clueless council who had literally no idea why they were doing things.
Informed DVLA and opened a few of the council parking tickets accumulating fines. I informed the council who wouldnt stop sending thefines and the bailiffs to my address without confirmation from the DVLA. The DVLA wrote me a letter which i passed on and the Council (Worcesterhire CC) wouldnt accept it as it wasnt direct from the DVLA and the DVLA wouldnt contact them directly.
I was then scolded (erroneously) by the couoncil case handler for opening the mail, which as above is pure toss providing i wasn't opening it to use to the recipients detriment. I had to escalate through the council complaints system while still receiving several bailiff visits in the mean time. My wife was very unhappy as it was her answering the door mostly whilst i was working.
Took months to square off with the council, a most unsatisfactory episode that shouldn't have been so hard to resolve.
Lots of hiding behind 'policy' and 'GDPR' by the clueless council who had literally no idea why they were doing things.
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