Signage on temporary limits (roadworks)
Discussion
There is a section of lit urban dual carriageway near me that is normally a 50 limit.
Currently there are roadworks on a small section. The signage is a single large sign on one side of the carriageway only, and a repeated sign sometime later. Again on one side only. These signs are unlit. There is a mobile gatso, although without lines on the road -- not sure if it is just a contractor's dummy gatso.
Is this signage sufficient to make it a 30 limit, assuming that there is an Order, and that the Order is not a revocation of derestriction, but a reduction in limit to 30? In particular, don't they need signs both sides?
Currently there are roadworks on a small section. The signage is a single large sign on one side of the carriageway only, and a repeated sign sometime later. Again on one side only. These signs are unlit. There is a mobile gatso, although without lines on the road -- not sure if it is just a contractor's dummy gatso.
Is this signage sufficient to make it a 30 limit, assuming that there is an Order, and that the Order is not a revocation of derestriction, but a reduction in limit to 30? In particular, don't they need signs both sides?
As I understand it then if a Trunk Road (D of Transport)or other de-trunked or other road (Local Highways) for works of a temporary nature such as Road works an Order is made under section 14 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 as amended. This can invoke prohibitions and include a speed limit.
Generally a limit on road works is 20 mph lower than the normal speed applicable so that is in line with the 30mph mentioned.
There is an obligation to correctly sign the speed limit of the Order in accordance with Traffic Signs and General Direction 2002.
In the case stated 30 limit signs at the start on both sides of the carriageway and 50mph signs, both sides, at the end of the limit set out in the Order. If these signs are within 50 metres of a street light then they have to be illuminated during the hours of darkness either internally or externally and be reflectorised. Lighting only applies to a Trunk or principle Road.
On the question of repeater signs at alternative intervals either side depending on the distance involved. But
Hmmmm.
The presence of street lighting would indicate a 30 mph limit as a restricted road but the Temp Order and the 50 Order superceeds this plus the fact that 50 repeaters are required outside the works. I would tend to suggest that repeaters may well be required. This could be brought in, if absent as additional support to the incorrectly signed limit at the start and finish?- therefore a limit that is argueably unenforceable because of the defects.
Incidentally repeater signs do not have to be illuminated.
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Wednesday 24th August 20:52
Generally a limit on road works is 20 mph lower than the normal speed applicable so that is in line with the 30mph mentioned.
There is an obligation to correctly sign the speed limit of the Order in accordance with Traffic Signs and General Direction 2002.
In the case stated 30 limit signs at the start on both sides of the carriageway and 50mph signs, both sides, at the end of the limit set out in the Order. If these signs are within 50 metres of a street light then they have to be illuminated during the hours of darkness either internally or externally and be reflectorised. Lighting only applies to a Trunk or principle Road.
On the question of repeater signs at alternative intervals either side depending on the distance involved. But
Hmmmm.
The presence of street lighting would indicate a 30 mph limit as a restricted road but the Temp Order and the 50 Order superceeds this plus the fact that 50 repeaters are required outside the works. I would tend to suggest that repeaters may well be required. This could be brought in, if absent as additional support to the incorrectly signed limit at the start and finish?- therefore a limit that is argueably unenforceable because of the defects.
Incidentally repeater signs do not have to be illuminated.
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Wednesday 24th August 20:52
As I understand it, putting on a police uniform and saying "I'm a police officer" is pretending to be a police officer. Owning a Gatso is not -- just as well as most in the country aren't owned by the Police...
DVD - does that mean that since the first temporary speed limit sign is only on one side of the carriageway this is not enforceable? I suspected as much (and was alerted to it as I missed the first one since it was obstructed by a large vehicle). Furthermore it is near a streetlight and unlit, so sounds pretty much a cowboy operation. I bet if I went and checked there would be no Order, either.
There's no pair of 50 signs at the end of the temporary limit, just the repeaters are no longer spray painted out.
It's annoying when people doing stuff to our roads don't seem to understand the rules. And it's not like the biggest baddest police station in the UK isn't just around the corner...
DVD - does that mean that since the first temporary speed limit sign is only on one side of the carriageway this is not enforceable? I suspected as much (and was alerted to it as I missed the first one since it was obstructed by a large vehicle). Furthermore it is near a streetlight and unlit, so sounds pretty much a cowboy operation. I bet if I went and checked there would be no Order, either.
There's no pair of 50 signs at the end of the temporary limit, just the repeaters are no longer spray painted out.
It's annoying when people doing stuff to our roads don't seem to understand the rules. And it's not like the biggest baddest police station in the UK isn't just around the corner...
7db said:
As I understand it, putting on a police uniform and saying "I'm a police officer" is pretending to be a police officer. Owning a Gatso is not -- just as well as most in the country aren't owned by the Police...
RESPONSE:>>>>>>> A number of people have made dummy boxes and erected them in their hedges. OK as long as they dont encroach on the highway but can attract adverse comment<<<<<<<
DVD - does that mean that since the first temporary speed limit sign is only on one side of the carriageway this is not enforceable? I suspected as much (and was alerted to it as I missed the first one since it was obstructed by a large vehicle). Furthermore it is near a streetlight and unlit, so sounds pretty much a cowboy operation. I bet if I went and checked there would be no Order, either.
RESPONSE>>>>>>Bear in mind that LA's generally contract temporary works out and in the contract stipulate what signage has to be put out. Contractors have been found wanting on many occasion. A limit has to be signed in accordance with rules and regulations if it isn't it aint proper innit. Lack of patrolling Bibs specialising in Traffic matters allow these howlers to be committed<<<<<<
There's no pair of 50 signs at the end of the temporary limit, just the repeaters are no longer spray painted out.
RESPONCE>>>>>> so how are you supposed to know where the limit ends?<<<<<<<
It's annoying when people doing stuff to our roads don't seem to understand the rules. And it's not like the biggest baddest police station in the UK isn't just around the corner...
RESPONSE>>>>>> strike a a blow for motorist report it as incorectly signed to LA Traffic Management.<<<<
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Thursday 25th August 11:02
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