New vehicle safety issue - legal options
Discussion
Hi all,
Firstly, the vehicle concerned is a motorhome, but I'm seeking legal advice so want to remain in this forum though it may not be of interest to car owners.
We bought a new motorhome end of '21, taking delivery beginning of December.
It's a mainstream European make (am I allowed to name, or should I keep schtum at this point?)
We've had issues with some blinds etc but what I want to discuss is the overhead lockers. Basically, they don't stay closed, and can (and do and have) open when travelling resulting in contents spilling out, often accompanied with startling crash bangy noises. The nature of the vehicle is such it can be difficult for me as the driver to see what is happening behind me in the vehicle, and I feel I am unable to remain in full control of my vehicle, or in full control of what is happening within my vehicle. There is a locker above the driver and front passenger respectively. The vehicle is a four seater and if we carry passengers the lockers above them could open at any time.
I thought the catches were the issue, we've had several replaced (always with the same type) but pretty much at all times we've been without a full compliment of functioning locker doors.
The locker doors are of the push-to-open and push-to-close with struts that lift the door open, I'm now wondering if the struts are too strong for the catches.
I don't think ours is a common model within their range (didn't know that at the time), and I don't know if any of the other models have the same lockers/doors/catches. I suspect not.
I'm going to notify the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) of this as a safety issue, on the grounds that it is something that "that happens suddenly and without warning".
I suspect the dealership is stretching me out through the two year warranty period, after which I guess the problem is no longer their worry.
My question is: Is there anything further I can legally do? Maybe a solicitor's letter to the dealership, but I wouldn't know where to begin in selecting one. Can anyone recommend anyone, or have any thoughts on how to get somewhere with this problem?
Many TIA.
Firstly, the vehicle concerned is a motorhome, but I'm seeking legal advice so want to remain in this forum though it may not be of interest to car owners.
We bought a new motorhome end of '21, taking delivery beginning of December.
It's a mainstream European make (am I allowed to name, or should I keep schtum at this point?)
We've had issues with some blinds etc but what I want to discuss is the overhead lockers. Basically, they don't stay closed, and can (and do and have) open when travelling resulting in contents spilling out, often accompanied with startling crash bangy noises. The nature of the vehicle is such it can be difficult for me as the driver to see what is happening behind me in the vehicle, and I feel I am unable to remain in full control of my vehicle, or in full control of what is happening within my vehicle. There is a locker above the driver and front passenger respectively. The vehicle is a four seater and if we carry passengers the lockers above them could open at any time.
I thought the catches were the issue, we've had several replaced (always with the same type) but pretty much at all times we've been without a full compliment of functioning locker doors.
The locker doors are of the push-to-open and push-to-close with struts that lift the door open, I'm now wondering if the struts are too strong for the catches.
I don't think ours is a common model within their range (didn't know that at the time), and I don't know if any of the other models have the same lockers/doors/catches. I suspect not.
I'm going to notify the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) of this as a safety issue, on the grounds that it is something that "that happens suddenly and without warning".
I suspect the dealership is stretching me out through the two year warranty period, after which I guess the problem is no longer their worry.
My question is: Is there anything further I can legally do? Maybe a solicitor's letter to the dealership, but I wouldn't know where to begin in selecting one. Can anyone recommend anyone, or have any thoughts on how to get somewhere with this problem?
Many TIA.
heebeegeetee said:
Hi all,
Firstly, the vehicle concerned is a motorhome, but I'm seeking legal advice so want to remain in this forum though it may not be of interest to car owners.
We bought a new motorhome end of '21, taking delivery beginning of December.
It's a mainstream European make (am I allowed to name, or should I keep schtum at this point?)
We've had issues with some blinds etc but what I want to discuss is the overhead lockers. Basically, they don't stay closed, and can (and do and have) open when travelling resulting in contents spilling out, often accompanied with startling crash bangy noises. The nature of the vehicle is such it can be difficult for me as the driver to see what is happening behind me in the vehicle, and I feel I am unable to remain in full control of my vehicle, or in full control of what is happening within my vehicle. There is a locker above the driver and front passenger respectively. The vehicle is a four seater and if we carry passengers the lockers above them could open at any time.
I thought the catches were the issue, we've had several replaced (always with the same type) but pretty much at all times we've been without a full compliment of functioning locker doors.
The locker doors are of the push-to-open and push-to-close with struts that lift the door open, I'm now wondering if the struts are too strong for the catches.
I don't think ours is a common model within their range (didn't know that at the time), and I don't know if any of the other models have the same lockers/doors/catches. I suspect not.
I'm going to notify the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) of this as a safety issue, on the grounds that it is something that "that happens suddenly and without warning".
I suspect the dealership is stretching me out through the two year warranty period, after which I guess the problem is no longer their worry.
My question is: Is there anything further I can legally do? Maybe a solicitor's letter to the dealership, but I wouldn't know where to begin in selecting one. Can anyone recommend anyone, or have any thoughts on how to get somewhere with this problem?
Many TIA.
Not sure what you expect the dvsa to do, other than keep on at the dealer to sort it?Firstly, the vehicle concerned is a motorhome, but I'm seeking legal advice so want to remain in this forum though it may not be of interest to car owners.
We bought a new motorhome end of '21, taking delivery beginning of December.
It's a mainstream European make (am I allowed to name, or should I keep schtum at this point?)
We've had issues with some blinds etc but what I want to discuss is the overhead lockers. Basically, they don't stay closed, and can (and do and have) open when travelling resulting in contents spilling out, often accompanied with startling crash bangy noises. The nature of the vehicle is such it can be difficult for me as the driver to see what is happening behind me in the vehicle, and I feel I am unable to remain in full control of my vehicle, or in full control of what is happening within my vehicle. There is a locker above the driver and front passenger respectively. The vehicle is a four seater and if we carry passengers the lockers above them could open at any time.
I thought the catches were the issue, we've had several replaced (always with the same type) but pretty much at all times we've been without a full compliment of functioning locker doors.
The locker doors are of the push-to-open and push-to-close with struts that lift the door open, I'm now wondering if the struts are too strong for the catches.
I don't think ours is a common model within their range (didn't know that at the time), and I don't know if any of the other models have the same lockers/doors/catches. I suspect not.
I'm going to notify the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) of this as a safety issue, on the grounds that it is something that "that happens suddenly and without warning".
I suspect the dealership is stretching me out through the two year warranty period, after which I guess the problem is no longer their worry.
My question is: Is there anything further I can legally do? Maybe a solicitor's letter to the dealership, but I wouldn't know where to begin in selecting one. Can anyone recommend anyone, or have any thoughts on how to get somewhere with this problem?
Many TIA.
Have you hand scout about on other specific forums to see if anyone else is having the same issue as I guess they are a universal part uses in all makes.
Has the MotorHome actually been back to the dealership for the new latches and if so how many revisits ?
So far what has the response from them been like ?
Reporting them to the Standards authorities feels to me almost a last resort after everything else has failed - is this the case ?
Clearly the lockers are effectively unfit for purpose so if it were me I’d be speaking to whomever is the Sales man plus the MD etc ( I think I would be doing so via email ) and use the carrot and stick method.
By that I mean tell them it’s not fit for purpose despite the attempted repairs so the ball is back with them to solve.
Mention that you clearly want to keep out of legal eyes and standards etc and that you otherwise think it’s great BUT it’s causing you real stress and it needs to be fixed.
Perhaps also mention the manufacturer needs to get involved etc / social media interested ?
None of that should prevent you going legal should they not take you seriously.
You mentioned the warranty is 2 years and this is all within.
So far what has the response from them been like ?
Reporting them to the Standards authorities feels to me almost a last resort after everything else has failed - is this the case ?
Clearly the lockers are effectively unfit for purpose so if it were me I’d be speaking to whomever is the Sales man plus the MD etc ( I think I would be doing so via email ) and use the carrot and stick method.
By that I mean tell them it’s not fit for purpose despite the attempted repairs so the ball is back with them to solve.
Mention that you clearly want to keep out of legal eyes and standards etc and that you otherwise think it’s great BUT it’s causing you real stress and it needs to be fixed.
Perhaps also mention the manufacturer needs to get involved etc / social media interested ?
None of that should prevent you going legal should they not take you seriously.
You mentioned the warranty is 2 years and this is all within.
Many thanks for replies so far guys,
Grumps. said:
Not sure what you expect the dvsa to do, other than keep on at the dealer to sort it?
Have you hand scout about on other specific forums to see if anyone else is having the same issue as I guess they are a universal part uses in all makes.
That's the annoying thing, I'm not sure ours is a universal part. I'm not experienced in the ways of motorhomes and have no idea what is used in other vans or indeed the other models in the range, but I suspect not what we've got. I suspect ours is a pandemic-built vehicle. Have you hand scout about on other specific forums to see if anyone else is having the same issue as I guess they are a universal part uses in all makes.
Alex Z said:
This shouldn’t happen, and you absolutely should take it up with the manufacturer, but in the mean time could you solve the problem with a secondary way of keeping them closed? Strong self adhesive Velcro strips might do the job and won’t cause any lasting damage.
Time for this, I think.OutInTheShed said:
Just buy some proper catches?
Have a look at those fitted to lockers on yachts.
This would invalidate the warranty on what is not a cheap vehicle.Have a look at those fitted to lockers on yachts.
alscar said:
Q Has the MotorHome actually been back to the dealership for the new latches and if so how many revisits ? A Yes, many times, at least 6 and booked in again on the 18th of this month.
Q So far what has the response from them been like ? A They do their best but I don’t think they’re getting any manufacturer support.
Q Reporting them to the Standards authorities feels to me almost a last resort after everything else has failed - is this the case ? A Getting there. :-(
Clearly the lockers are effectively unfit for purpose so if it were me I’d be speaking to whomever is the Sales man plus the MD etc ( I think I would be doing so via email ) and use the carrot and stick method.
By that I mean tell them it’s not fit for purpose despite the attempted repairs so the ball is back with them to solve.
Mention that you clearly want to keep out of legal eyes and standards etc and that you otherwise think it’s great BUT it’s causing you real stress and it needs to be fixed.
Perhaps also mention the manufacturer needs to get involved etc / social media interested ?
None of that should prevent you going legal should they not take you seriously.
You mentioned the warranty is 2 years and this is all within.
Many thanks, am currently writing letters, I think I need a stiff letter from a legal bod.Q So far what has the response from them been like ? A They do their best but I don’t think they’re getting any manufacturer support.
Q Reporting them to the Standards authorities feels to me almost a last resort after everything else has failed - is this the case ? A Getting there. :-(
Clearly the lockers are effectively unfit for purpose so if it were me I’d be speaking to whomever is the Sales man plus the MD etc ( I think I would be doing so via email ) and use the carrot and stick method.
By that I mean tell them it’s not fit for purpose despite the attempted repairs so the ball is back with them to solve.
Mention that you clearly want to keep out of legal eyes and standards etc and that you otherwise think it’s great BUT it’s causing you real stress and it needs to be fixed.
Perhaps also mention the manufacturer needs to get involved etc / social media interested ?
None of that should prevent you going legal should they not take you seriously.
You mentioned the warranty is 2 years and this is all within.
Matt_E_Mulsion said:
I can't imagine the DVSA will be interested. Internal locker doors in a motorhome is probably not within their remit, they are more concerned with mechanical defects etc.
I did think this myself, but then, this kind of is a mechanical part, as in "noun 1.the working parts of a vehicle."Hol said:
Do they open when empty?
Or, does it require something inside to push against the doors?
I would be asking for a contribution towards the aforementioned yacht catches now that you near the end of warranty.
Yes, they open either empty or with contents, and in use, ie I open one and then they won't close.Or, does it require something inside to push against the doors?
I would be asking for a contribution towards the aforementioned yacht catches now that you near the end of warranty.
Might be worth checking the owners manual if there is one as there may be a clause in there that states anything stored in there is only for when not mobile?
I mean it’s a crap design but they all try and wriggle out of responsibilities these days, but it does sound like the dealer is really trying to sort it. Maybe suggest they look at alternative products, even to the point of you spending a bit of time in the internet and seeing what’s about.
I know it’s not your place to do it, but sometimes working together can yield a satisfactory outcome for you both, especially if you are keen to keek the vehicle.
I mean it’s a crap design but they all try and wriggle out of responsibilities these days, but it does sound like the dealer is really trying to sort it. Maybe suggest they look at alternative products, even to the point of you spending a bit of time in the internet and seeing what’s about.
I know it’s not your place to do it, but sometimes working together can yield a satisfactory outcome for you both, especially if you are keen to keek the vehicle.
Grumps. said:
Might be worth checking the owners manual if there is one as there may be a clause in there that states anything stored in there is only for when not mobile?
I mean it’s a crap design but they all try and wriggle out of responsibilities these days, but it does sound like the dealer is really trying to sort it. Maybe suggest they look at alternative products, even to the point of you spending a bit of time in the internet and seeing what’s about.
I know it’s not your place to do it, but sometimes working together can yield a satisfactory outcome for you both, especially if you are keen to keek the vehicle.
Agreed, and have been trying that so far. One of their staff gave me 3 catches, which was of use, but I'm now not sure if the issue is with the catches or gas/spring struts that are too strong. I mean it’s a crap design but they all try and wriggle out of responsibilities these days, but it does sound like the dealer is really trying to sort it. Maybe suggest they look at alternative products, even to the point of you spending a bit of time in the internet and seeing what’s about.
I know it’s not your place to do it, but sometimes working together can yield a satisfactory outcome for you both, especially if you are keen to keek the vehicle.
heebeegeetee said:
Many thanks for replies so far guys,
...
That's the annoying thing, I'm not sure ours is a universal part. I'm not experienced in the ways of motorhomes and have no idea what is used in other vans or indeed the other models in the range, but I suspect not what we've got. I suspect ours is a pandemic-built vehicle.
Go and look at some other motorhomes in a dealer, find out what solutions to your problem are out there. Maybe speak to the small indy firms that do a few conversions a year. Tell your retailer what you want. Get confirmation from the maker of the motorhome that this won't affect the warranty regarding any other components or workmanship. They are not going to get away with 'the gearbox blew up, but your warranty is invalid because you changed the locker catches.'...
That's the annoying thing, I'm not sure ours is a universal part. I'm not experienced in the ways of motorhomes and have no idea what is used in other vans or indeed the other models in the range, but I suspect not what we've got. I suspect ours is a pandemic-built vehicle.
Also maybe find out who makes the catches, are they installed right? Are they intended for this purpose? Can they be made to work? Can they be swapped for a stronger model?
Or just trade the van in.
Bear in mind that as driver, it's you that's responsible for the luggage being secure.
OutInTheShed said:
Also maybe find out who makes the catches, are they installed right? Are they intended for this purpose? Can they be made to work? Can they be swapped for a stronger model?
Or just trade the van in.
These are the catches. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BW8ZQ11X/ref=sspa_dk...Or just trade the van in.
We don't want to trade the van in, we want the manufacturer and the supplying dealer to meet their legal requirements.
DVSA etc won't do anything I'm afraid. Look at sticking Toyota throttles, Firestone tyre recalls etc. As others have said, your likely only recourse is with the supplying Dealer / Manufacturer.
I suspect the catches are similar to this?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cupboard-15-18mm-Thicknes...
What has likely happened is that the hole for the catch mech has been drilled too far inboard on the locker doors, or the latch that they (if they have them) hasn't been adjusted to allow sufficient engagement on the catch.
When you are driving along, the vibration and or bumps allow the doors to move (assisted by said powerful gas struts) and causes the catches to disengage.
Post some images of the catches and what they latch onto / behind etc.
tbh, it sounds like the Dealership is just a bit rubbish if they can't sort a simple locker latching issue.
heebeegeetee said:
These are the catches. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BW8ZQ11X/ref=sspa_dk...
We don't want to trade the van in, we want the manufacturer and the supplying dealer to meet their legal requirements.
They look like cheap crap. As said, I recon some decent yacht type catches would solve your problem. Shouldn't be a particularly difficult fix for the dealer I'd have thought, and not too expensive. Perhaps ask them to look into that for you?We don't want to trade the van in, we want the manufacturer and the supplying dealer to meet their legal requirements.
cptsideways said:
No way would you be using those catches on a moving vehicle, s
te spec. I bet it's a British made van.
No, it's a premium brand European, with an excellent reputation, yet they're using completely the wrong components here, I agree they're cheap crap, and shouldn't be used in a moving vehicle.te spec. I bet it's a British made van. To my surprise somewhat, the business model of these vehicles is different from buying cars. 1) they don't trade from glass palaces like car dealerships, in fact think more upmarket portacabin and /or industrial unit. 2) The only point of contact for the customer is the purchasing dealership. A UK based office does exist, from a small industrial unit on an industrial estate. I have had contact with them, over warranty issues, I notice that no name is ever given on their emails and they are effectively unsigned, it's unbelievably amateurish and unprofessional in my opinion.
I think the people in the service section of my dealership (at a different location to sales) try their best, but they're all a bit young and I feel out of their depth to a degree. I don't think they're getting enough support from the dealer principle nor from their UK office nor the manufacturer itself. Over a past issue I have contacted the manufacturer at the factory, I received no reply. It's all too amateurish for my liking, compounded by fitting cheap crap in some of their vehicles.
I feel like I'm banging my head over this issue, and am really struggling to move it forward, I need to kick somebody into some action.
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