School absence fines vs speeding tickets

[HertsBiker]

Interesting that they are considering fines for kids not attending school should be stopped. See BBC news for more info. Apparently they make the problem worse.
So by this logic, why not stop fining people for speeding?
Actually they seem to be reducing punishment for illegal drugs, and people are trying to legalise drugs. So why not stop punishment for speeding - it clearly doesn't stop speeding judging by the millions of speed crimes everyday.
Just odd how some actions get exempted and others don't.

[loskie]

maybe parents shouldn't see it as a fine BUT paying back the value of the education that they cause their sprogs to miss that is provided free to them. Or perhaps just make parents pay for their sprogs education full stop.

[Donbot]

You are in control of your car when you are driving.

You can frog march your kids through the school gate, but you can't stop them hopping the fence and leaving.

[vaud]

Donbot said:

You can frog march your kids through the school gate, but you can't stop them hopping the fence and leaving.

True but unlikely at primary school.

Absences are unfair on the other kids. A single day at the end of term I have no issue with, but pulling kids out for 2 weeks for holidays isn't fair as the pressure is then on the teachers to help them catch up. That time is then taken away from other kids.

[Donbot]

vaud said:

Donbot said:

You can frog march your kids through the school gate, but you can't stop them hopping the fence and leaving.

True but unlikely at primary school.

Absences are unfair on the other kids. A single day at the end of term I have no issue with, but pulling kids out for 2 weeks for holidays isn't fair as the pressure is then on the teachers to help them catch up. That time is then taken away from other kids.

Apologies. I thought the thread was about problematic kids, or parents who didn't care.

Fining the parents for taking their kids out for holidays seems fair enough.

[Bluemondy]

The school fine thing is an odd one. If you pull the fines, there will be zero incentive to stop parents pulling kids for holidays.

There was a story of some parents winging about having a 420£ fine for taking the kids out of school for a Disney land trip. Parents claimed doing so saved them £8k. So after the fine they saved £7580.

Remove the fine and you'll just encourage more.

I can't see a parallel with speeding fines though.

[donkmeister]

Obviously I never speed, honest guv, but I suspect the issue is that speeding in itself covers everything from safely and sedately cruising at 80mph on an empty motorway, to blasting through a zebra crossing at 100mph with zero fricks given to the people crossing.

Personally, I'd be more in favour of heavily penalising inappropriate speed and allowing appropriate speed on derestricted roads. So, 40 down a 30mph residential is a no, 120+ on a clear dry motorway would be fine, and dry VBRJ would be the minimum sentence for the dheads doing anything over 20 on my own street, obviously.

I'm on the fence about term-time holiday fines - as a dad I want my child to have the best education possible, but also as a dad I'd love to take her to Disney world

[vaud]

donkmeister said:

I'm on the fence about term-time holiday fines - as a dad I want my child to have the best education possible, but also as a dad I'd love to take her to Disney world

Context is everything.

In foundation/year 0 it will probably make no odds. KS2 as SATS approach, much more impact, unless end of term/year.

[Bluemondy]

donkmeister said:

Obviously I never speed, honest guv, but I suspect the issue is that speeding in itself covers everything from safely and sedately cruising at 80mph on an empty motorway, to blasting through a zebra crossing at 100mph with zero fricks given to the people crossing.

Personally, I'd be more in favour of heavily penalising inappropriate speed and allowing appropriate speed on derestricted roads. So, 40 down a 30mph residential is a no, 120+ on a clear dry motorway would be fine, and dry VBRJ would be the minimum sentence for the dheads doing anything over 20 on my own street, obviously.

I'm on the fence about term-time holiday fines - as a dad I want my child to have the best education possible, but also as a dad I'd love to take her to Disney world

Inclined to agree with this, and in some respects the speeding fines already have a healthy pre-fine thing with the speed awareness course... (I've done two over the past 15 odd years for minor indiscretions, and was thankful for the course).

I'm fully sympathetic to parents who take kids on holiday during term time. I'm not convinced that missing 2 weeks will kill an education.

My daughter missed approximately 6months solid whilst fighting for her life in her early teenage years, then another 3 months part time at school. She graduates this year with her master's degree.

That said, I can see how it would be a massive headache for teachers.

Maybe more should be done with companies who can rack up prices during term time?

[NikBartlett]

The fines for taking the kids out of school should be the amount of money saved, it would then act as a proper incentive not to do it in the first place

[Turbobanana]

Bluemondy said:

Maybe more should be done with companies who can rack up prices during term time?

Assuming you mean school holiday time, then you've hit the nail squarely.

I have 2 kids in school and strongly disagree with taking them out for even a day. I book holidays that I know I can afford even at inflated prices in school holidays, half terms etc. I sympathise with parents who are not in that financial position, but term time is term time.

The grey area is where parents want to take their kids to visit relatives living abroad, which financially they may struggle to do if they follow the rules.

[Drumroll]

Turbobanana said:

Bluemondy said:

Maybe more should be done with companies who can rack up prices during term time?

Assuming you mean school holiday time, then you've hit the nail squarely.

I have 2 kids in school and strongly disagree with taking them out for even a day. I book holidays that I know I can afford even at inflated prices in school holidays, half terms etc. I sympathise with parents who are not in that financial position, but term time is term time.

The grey area is where parents want to take their kids to visit relatives living abroad, which financially they may struggle to do if they follow the rules.

Another problem is when you have kids in different schools with different term times.

[GT03ROB]

Bluemondy said:

I'm fully sympathetic to parents who take kids on holiday during term time. I'm not convinced that missing 2 weeks will kill an education.

Maybe more should be done with companies who can rack up prices during term time?

I totally agree on the first point. We always used to go on holidays during term time. Was not a problem. However I can see the argument these days where the concept of holidays is much more widespread, that it could cause a lot more potential disruption with more kids being out.

On the 2nd point .... ain't gonna happen. You will not control Pedro who owns a hotel down on the Costa Lota, & no UK company is going to supply a package at low or no margin so they won;t absorb Pedro's prices.

[RayDonovan]

Taking kids out during term time seems to be more common.

Our Primary School refuses all requests but that obviously doesn't make any difference. I personally wouldn't take my son out for more than a day, but if parents want to take the Children out for 2 weeks, crack on.

[vaud]

RayDonovan said:

Taking kids out during term time seems to be more common.

Our Primary School refuses all requests but that obviously doesn't make any difference. I personally wouldn't take my son out for more than a day, but if parents want to take the Children out for 2 weeks, crack on.

A day is one thing, 2 weeks is a fair chunk of time from a syllabus.

It's not fair on the kids.

It's not far on the teachers who are still dealing (in many cases) with the pandemic impacts from loss of learning, as they then have to try to help the kids catch up on two weeks lost learning. If you multiply this out across a class...

[andburg]

Generally speaking taking kids out of school for holidays doesn't save money. The parents who say it does do so because they don't want to admit they can't afford that impressive school gate parent chat holiday.

I get it, but i don't agree with it.

[RayDonovan]

vaud said:

RayDonovan said:

Taking kids out during term time seems to be more common.

Our Primary School refuses all requests but that obviously doesn't make any difference. I personally wouldn't take my son out for more than a day, but if parents want to take the Children out for 2 weeks, crack on.

A day is one thing, 2 weeks is a fair chunk of time from a syllabus.

It's not fair on the kids.

It's not far on the teachers who are still dealing (in many cases) with the pandemic impacts from loss of learning, as they then have to try to help the kids catch up on two weeks lost learning. If you multiply this out across a class...

Agree, but the impact on my Child is so minimal in reality.

[surveyor]

I think you are all talking bks.

Family holiday time is important, and kids get to experience different cultures and experiences while away (even if its Disney!).

There are some periods of education where it's more important eg GCSE's, but primary school kids will gain far more from a new experience.

Add in that some parents don't get to choose their holiday times, and the loading that goes on in prices during school holidays, I really don't see the issue with a couple of weeks out a year.

[vaud]

surveyor said:

I think you are all talking bks.

Family holiday time is important, and kids get to experience different cultures and experiences while away (even if its Disney!).

There are some periods of education where it's more important eg GCSE's, but primary school kids will gain far more from a new experience.

Add in that some parents don't get to choose their holiday times, and the loading that goes on in prices during school holidays, I really don't see the issue with a couple of weeks out a year.

In the 80s I'd agree.

The pressure on primary (2 sets of SATs) adds a lot of complication. Especially if everyone does it. I take mine out for the last 2 days of summer term after al teaching has finished, but that is all.

[Type R Tom]

surveyor said:

I think you are all talking bks.

Family holiday time is important, and kids get to experience different cultures and experiences while away (even if its Disney!).

There are some periods of education where it's more important eg GCSE's, but primary school kids will gain far more from a new experience.

Add in that some parents don't get to choose their holiday times, and the loading that goes on in prices during school holidays, I really don't see the issue with a couple of weeks out a year.

While that may be the case for some, the vast majority of holidays the kids are taken on are 1 week all inclusive in Benidorm where they don't leave the hotel, not backpacking around South America. I'm not convinced of the experiences argument for most.