Another "used car problems" thread
Discussion
I purchased a 2013 Merc C63 AMG on 6th April,from an independent dealer near Southampton (almost the other end of the country from me, in Aberdeen) and drove it home that day. On the way and over the course of the few days thereafter I noted a number of problems with the car and duly notified the dealer. These issues were:
- Steering misaligned to the right on travelling straight ahead
- Rumble/vibration through the car at motorway speeds
- Judder through steering on braking
- Oil leak from nearside camshaft cover, dripping onto exhaust manifold and smoking
- Sunroof intermittently inoperable
The dealer agreed to book it in to a local garage (well-respected workshop run by a former Mercedes master-tech) and some of the items were addressed. It has been back twice since then and is there now having an oil leak put right. There still remains the issue of two damaged front wheels (buckled and cracked, previously poorly repaired which has now failed).
The past couple of days I noticed an occasional knock sound from the passenger side when going over speed bumps or sometimes turning at full lock to either side. I mentioned this to the garage when I dropped the car off, they had a look and found some play in the N/S/F strut. The dealer is refusing to cover the cost of this, claiming that it was fine at the time of sale because it passed MOT etc. The local garage have said this will cost a bit north of £600 in total to replace.
The car came with six months' RAC warranty, I was informed by the dealer that a condition of this was a full RAC inspection so I could be assured the car had a clean bill of health. I have a copy of the report - clearly not worth the paper it's printed on as it didn't mention any of the issues listed above.
Possibly also relevant is that the dealer also appears to have failed to transfer the car to me as registered keeper as I still haven't received the V5C and when I called DVLA to check yesterday, they had no record of the transfer being made by the dealer.
I'm aware (from here) that as I'm still within six months of the time of purchase any issues that appear are presumed to have been present at the time of sale. The dealer I presume will point to the RAC inspection report to claim that it was fine at the time of sale. If I were to raise a case with the Motor Ombudsman then would that be enough to satisfy them that the dealer had no case to answer or would the other issues that went unreported be enough to discredit that report?
- Steering misaligned to the right on travelling straight ahead
- Rumble/vibration through the car at motorway speeds
- Judder through steering on braking
- Oil leak from nearside camshaft cover, dripping onto exhaust manifold and smoking
- Sunroof intermittently inoperable
The dealer agreed to book it in to a local garage (well-respected workshop run by a former Mercedes master-tech) and some of the items were addressed. It has been back twice since then and is there now having an oil leak put right. There still remains the issue of two damaged front wheels (buckled and cracked, previously poorly repaired which has now failed).
The past couple of days I noticed an occasional knock sound from the passenger side when going over speed bumps or sometimes turning at full lock to either side. I mentioned this to the garage when I dropped the car off, they had a look and found some play in the N/S/F strut. The dealer is refusing to cover the cost of this, claiming that it was fine at the time of sale because it passed MOT etc. The local garage have said this will cost a bit north of £600 in total to replace.
The car came with six months' RAC warranty, I was informed by the dealer that a condition of this was a full RAC inspection so I could be assured the car had a clean bill of health. I have a copy of the report - clearly not worth the paper it's printed on as it didn't mention any of the issues listed above.
Possibly also relevant is that the dealer also appears to have failed to transfer the car to me as registered keeper as I still haven't received the V5C and when I called DVLA to check yesterday, they had no record of the transfer being made by the dealer.
I'm aware (from here) that as I'm still within six months of the time of purchase any issues that appear are presumed to have been present at the time of sale. The dealer I presume will point to the RAC inspection report to claim that it was fine at the time of sale. If I were to raise a case with the Motor Ombudsman then would that be enough to satisfy them that the dealer had no case to answer or would the other issues that went unreported be enough to discredit that report?
Always tricky with suspension bits, as the dealer could claim you've done something to cause the damage (bounced off a kerb for example). I purchased a used Focus ST from a dealer years back, 3 months later the oil filled front bushes and wishbones needed replacing (expensive on a 5 pot ST), but the dealer claimed it passed it's MOT at the time of sale and they only offer a 3 month warranty and I'm not 1 week past that. It took a couple of weeks of battling with them, but they did eventually agree to replace the parts and only use Ford parts which in their credit, they did. Had that car 5 years before selling on and it was brilliant, no other problems. If you're happy with the 63, then battle with them, they should replace but they might continue to play hardball, forcing you down the small claims route.
rayny said:
A ten year old C63 :
What sort of mileage is it on?
What is the MOT history like?
What is the service history like?
You travelled from Aberdeen to Southampton for it - Was it a bargain price?
Mileage was 46,800 at the time of sale. MOT history, only fails or advisories were tyre related. Service history is full, main dealers and specialists. Price was not "bargain" but attractive compared to similar examples. I chose this one on the low mileage, full service history, colour and spec and last but not least, on the reassurance from the dealer that the RAC warranty/inspection was "bulletproof".What sort of mileage is it on?
What is the MOT history like?
What is the service history like?
You travelled from Aberdeen to Southampton for it - Was it a bargain price?
I'm not sure how any of that influences the dealer's legal obligations though?
Edited by 8bit on Wednesday 24th May 23:00
I feel like you will have an uphill battle on the latest faults you are reporting, you are 6 weeks post purchase when you are reporting them so the dealer could say you have caused the damage by hitting a bad pot hole or a kerb and they will use the RAC inspection report to back up that the damage wasn't there at the point of sale.
I presume the warranty company have refused any claim?
I'm not saying you have caused the damage but it certainly looks like the cards are stacked against you. If it was me i'd likely pay the bill to get it sorted.
I presume the warranty company have refused any claim?
I'm not saying you have caused the damage but it certainly looks like the cards are stacked against you. If it was me i'd likely pay the bill to get it sorted.
I know very little of these things but the issue you raise on the front wheels confuses me, every advert I look at shows at least 2 close up shots of wheels and in fact I bought a suzuki swift for my daughter, there was a few scuffs but the dealer sent specific close up's before we paid a refundable deposit.
If the wheels are so bad, was it not visible at collection and if it passed the MOT are they not considered road worthy ( i ask as to me it seems like this is a grey area between safety and cosmetic)
If it was me, I'd make a list of the faults outstanding and try to be objective as to what is outright the dealers responsibility, what is perhaps under buyers remorse, that's not to insult you but to break it down so you can resolve this and what is a grey area that perhaps you can ask your friendly specialist about.
That the dealers still talking is a positive and if it were me, I'd get my position together so you hit them in one go with the current matters, going back piece meal will overwhelm them mentally.
everyone wants certainty and if you go back and say, as of today this is my claim at least they can focus on that ( making clear of course that it does not mean any future unknown faults are not covered).
If the wheels are so bad, was it not visible at collection and if it passed the MOT are they not considered road worthy ( i ask as to me it seems like this is a grey area between safety and cosmetic)
If it was me, I'd make a list of the faults outstanding and try to be objective as to what is outright the dealers responsibility, what is perhaps under buyers remorse, that's not to insult you but to break it down so you can resolve this and what is a grey area that perhaps you can ask your friendly specialist about.
That the dealers still talking is a positive and if it were me, I'd get my position together so you hit them in one go with the current matters, going back piece meal will overwhelm them mentally.
everyone wants certainty and if you go back and say, as of today this is my claim at least they can focus on that ( making clear of course that it does not mean any future unknown faults are not covered).
Seems quite important to inspect a car personally before committing to it, and sensible to take a reasonable drive in it before disappearing to another country.
Some of these issues would have been obvious with a proper test drive, or with a 50 mile drive from the dealer?
So you could have returned it to the dealer with a lot less hassle.
Some of these issues would have been obvious with a proper test drive, or with a 50 mile drive from the dealer?
So you could have returned it to the dealer with a lot less hassle.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Might be worth asking on your original thread which has more detail about what has gone on.
Might be worth asking on your original thread which has more detail about what has gone on.
My advice comes too late I'm afraid.
Anytime I buy an expensive used car, with expensive alloys, expensive tyres, I take it straight from the dealer to local friendly tyre place.
They charge me £25 to stick it on the ramp to check wheels/tyres etc.
Dealers know that if you notice damage/cracks after a few weeks they can simply say you must have hit a pothole.
Sorry for all the dealers reading this, but experience has shown me they'll chance this type of stuff.
Dont trust "used approved" checks
Anytime I buy an expensive used car, with expensive alloys, expensive tyres, I take it straight from the dealer to local friendly tyre place.
They charge me £25 to stick it on the ramp to check wheels/tyres etc.
Dealers know that if you notice damage/cracks after a few weeks they can simply say you must have hit a pothole.
Sorry for all the dealers reading this, but experience has shown me they'll chance this type of stuff.
Dont trust "used approved" checks
So I hadn't approached the warranty company yet because as someone posted above, warranties are not there so that used car dealers can absolve themselves of their legal responsibilities. I would imagine that given it's only been a few weeks since purchase that they would attempt to pass me back to the dealer, given what the Consumer Rights Act says.
The wheels, these are a common weak point on this car (and others with the same wheels), they are prone to cracking on the inner rim which can't really be seen without lifting the car off the ground and/or removing the wheels - that clearly wasn't going to be allowed when viewing the car. The buckles and some cracks really should have been identified by the RAC inspection but then that missed all the other issues too.
I didn't test drive the car before purchase - I put my faith in the RAC inspection, the low mileage, service history, other repairs paperwork and the dealer's reviews. I appreciate now that this was naive of me to say the least...
The wheels, these are a common weak point on this car (and others with the same wheels), they are prone to cracking on the inner rim which can't really be seen without lifting the car off the ground and/or removing the wheels - that clearly wasn't going to be allowed when viewing the car. The buckles and some cracks really should have been identified by the RAC inspection but then that missed all the other issues too.
I didn't test drive the car before purchase - I put my faith in the RAC inspection, the low mileage, service history, other repairs paperwork and the dealer's reviews. I appreciate now that this was naive of me to say the least...
I feel your pain OP
You're in your rights to approach the dealer directly rather than rely on the 3rd party warranty, who most of the time do not cover the cost of initial diagnosis
If the dealer isn't playing ball, I would send a recorded letter mentioning all your issues, and his obligations to repair under the consumer rights act, and give him 7 days to respond. If he doesn't respond, send a letter before action, informing him you will be seeking costs of repair through the courts (there's specific wording that has to be used). There's templates available on the CAB site.
You could then get the repairs done yourself and go after him for the costs through the small claims court.
Worst case if you lose it will cost you £100-£200 depending on total value of the claim
You're in your rights to approach the dealer directly rather than rely on the 3rd party warranty, who most of the time do not cover the cost of initial diagnosis
If the dealer isn't playing ball, I would send a recorded letter mentioning all your issues, and his obligations to repair under the consumer rights act, and give him 7 days to respond. If he doesn't respond, send a letter before action, informing him you will be seeking costs of repair through the courts (there's specific wording that has to be used). There's templates available on the CAB site.
You could then get the repairs done yourself and go after him for the costs through the small claims court.
Worst case if you lose it will cost you £100-£200 depending on total value of the claim
fred bloggs said:
Man buys 10 year old performance car and expects it to be brand new.
I don't envy used car dealers, I really don't.
Just so you know ,OP, In case you are 17 and just passed your test, this wont be the first spend up you need on this car, performance cars are expensive to run.
Keyboard warrior makes glib, condescending post on the internet and expects the OP to consider himself "schooled".I don't envy used car dealers, I really don't.
Just so you know ,OP, In case you are 17 and just passed your test, this wont be the first spend up you need on this car, performance cars are expensive to run.
I am well aware of the car's age and the sorts of costs involved in running cars like this thanks very much, the question in my first post was about understanding my rights as a consumer in this scenario. I presume from your highly valuable contribution to this thread that you'd happily shell out thousands of pounds on a used car you'd only just bought rather than trouble the dealer to fulfill their legal obligations to you.
Edited by 8bit on Friday 26th May 13:52
Some of the items could be claimed under warranty, from my experience of the RAC warranty they will cover some of the costs (the labour and hour rates are usually low) but at least it will subsidise the costs.
If you find a friendly garage they can alter the hours and labour rate favourably to maximise the benefit of the warranty I.e they may be able to complete the jobs in less hours but book the amount authorised on the warranty.
I’d do this first, get an indicative cost (I’d be very surprised if the warranty covered it all) and then speak to the supplying dealer about a contribution.
If you find a friendly garage they can alter the hours and labour rate favourably to maximise the benefit of the warranty I.e they may be able to complete the jobs in less hours but book the amount authorised on the warranty.
I’d do this first, get an indicative cost (I’d be very surprised if the warranty covered it all) and then speak to the supplying dealer about a contribution.
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