Electric bikes which aren't legal - ever enforced?
Discussion
Guys,
I am aware that I am going to be treading on possibly controversial ground here but does anything ever get done about non-legal electric bikes? By 'non-legal' I mean bikes that are set up such that they no longer qualify as 'bicycles' and are in law 'electric mopeds (because they have a throttle rather than simply pedal assistance/because assistance continues over the supposedly limited 15.5mph/they have more than 250w of electric power). Such machines seem to be hugely common on the roads and pavements.
If any enforcement agency wanted to do something about them it would be like shooting fish in a barrel, but I've never seen anything done about them. Is this universally the case?
FWIW, this question arises because I came very close to knocking a rider off one yesterday. Clearly had a throttle as the guy wasn't pedalling, despite the speed being around 20mph. He was riding dangerously in traffic, and when he and I perchance arrived at the same destination and I tried to speak to him it motioned that he was deaf (as in really deaf, not that he was choosing not to hear me.) Had I knocked him off then would I have been for the high jump as if I had knocked a regular cyclist off, or would he have been prosecuted for driving an electric moped without registration/VRN's/insurance?
I am aware that I am going to be treading on possibly controversial ground here but does anything ever get done about non-legal electric bikes? By 'non-legal' I mean bikes that are set up such that they no longer qualify as 'bicycles' and are in law 'electric mopeds (because they have a throttle rather than simply pedal assistance/because assistance continues over the supposedly limited 15.5mph/they have more than 250w of electric power). Such machines seem to be hugely common on the roads and pavements.
If any enforcement agency wanted to do something about them it would be like shooting fish in a barrel, but I've never seen anything done about them. Is this universally the case?
FWIW, this question arises because I came very close to knocking a rider off one yesterday. Clearly had a throttle as the guy wasn't pedalling, despite the speed being around 20mph. He was riding dangerously in traffic, and when he and I perchance arrived at the same destination and I tried to speak to him it motioned that he was deaf (as in really deaf, not that he was choosing not to hear me.) Had I knocked him off then would I have been for the high jump as if I had knocked a regular cyclist off, or would he have been prosecuted for driving an electric moped without registration/VRN's/insurance?
There was an incident on one of the TV programmes the other week which started off as "was going to have a word" and ended up with a public order arrest, fines and 8 points for no tax, no insurance, no licence etc. on a scooter so it does happen.
I wouldn't take the chance as, although the chance of getting caught is low, the implications of getting caught and the hard line being taken are quite high. Put a dummy quote in for car insurance with those offences and see what the cost would be.
If I was 14 would I care . . . .
I wouldn't take the chance as, although the chance of getting caught is low, the implications of getting caught and the hard line being taken are quite high. Put a dummy quote in for car insurance with those offences and see what the cost would be.
If I was 14 would I care . . . .
See recent riots in Ely.
Police follow someone on an illegal electric bike (within speed limit, not a pursuit).
Riders crash fatally (when well away from police).
Rioting for "police killing teenagers"...
IMHO correct enforcement in Ely should now involve investigating the parents for manslaughter - they knew (or should have known) the bike wasn't road legal, yet bought it and let it be ridden by the teens around the area, so supplying it was negligent...
While I have had issues with some videos on police stopping cyclists, my issue is them not following procedure defined in HW code (i.e. not instructing the rider(s) to pull over by signalling from behind with lights/siren but instead forcing the riders to either stop or collide with police car as the first option).
Police follow someone on an illegal electric bike (within speed limit, not a pursuit).
Riders crash fatally (when well away from police).
Rioting for "police killing teenagers"...
IMHO correct enforcement in Ely should now involve investigating the parents for manslaughter - they knew (or should have known) the bike wasn't road legal, yet bought it and let it be ridden by the teens around the area, so supplying it was negligent...
While I have had issues with some videos on police stopping cyclists, my issue is them not following procedure defined in HW code (i.e. not instructing the rider(s) to pull over by signalling from behind with lights/siren but instead forcing the riders to either stop or collide with police car as the first option).
2Btoo said:
They could yes. But I understand that the police are much quicker to prosecute the driver than the cyclist in a car-bicycle collision, and was wondering if the same favour would be shown had I knocked the chap off his illegal electric moped.
A colleague is dealing with a RTC at the moment. Car v e-bike. The power of the bike etc effectively makes it a moped. The rider doesn't have a licence, insurance. They also failed to provide. They are getting charged with all of that. They'll be disqualified from driving. The driver of the car I believe is also being prosecuted for due care. It happens. Just not that known about. Same as e scooters. Still dealt with etc.
LosingGrip said:
A colleague is dealing with a RTC at the moment. Car v e-bike. The power of the bike etc effectively makes it a moped. The rider doesn't have a licence, insurance. They also failed to provide. They are getting charged with all of that. They'll be disqualified from driving. The driver of the car I believe is also being prosecuted for due care.
It happens. Just not that known about. Same as e scooters. Still dealt with etc.
Thanks LG, that's helpful. It happens. Just not that known about. Same as e scooters. Still dealt with etc.
Does anyone ever see any enforcement of the rules on such machines that haven't been involved in an accident? i.e Stopping people on what appear to be illegal electric mopeds and asking some questions?
2Btoo said:
Thanks LG, that's helpful.
Does anyone ever see any enforcement of the rules on such machines that haven't been involved in an accident? i.e Stopping people on what appear to be illegal electric mopeds and asking some questions?
Seen it once but only in Portugal. A locally known illegal e-biker had his chipped to do 60mph. He eventually got stopped by the GNR in a busy tourist spot and questioned. Not sure of the outcome, I was cycling by. Does anyone ever see any enforcement of the rules on such machines that haven't been involved in an accident? i.e Stopping people on what appear to be illegal electric mopeds and asking some questions?
Unless the e-biker is going notably too fast in a place that is inherently dangerous to do so, I can't see them being randomly stopped unless the Police were particularly alert to a specific area reported as being used by illegal e-bikers riding dangerously.
An unassisted bike can be ridden at 50km/h + which is dangerous in busy pedestrian zones. So normal or assisted, they will mostly only be stopped if the Police think they are cycling without due care for the conditions.
We are looking at electric bikes at the moment and have the option of spending £1700 each in halford for an entry level legal 250w 12mph assisted bike, OR
Buy a 2500w hub motor, equivalent sized battery and controller from amazon for less than £1000 and fit it to my existing bike (which has hydraulic discs, thick trial tyres, heavy duty suspension/frame etc).
I am tempted by both and havent really made my mind up yet, the fact that theres no enforcement as long as you arent being an idiot is part of the consideration.
Buy a 2500w hub motor, equivalent sized battery and controller from amazon for less than £1000 and fit it to my existing bike (which has hydraulic discs, thick trial tyres, heavy duty suspension/frame etc).
I am tempted by both and havent really made my mind up yet, the fact that theres no enforcement as long as you arent being an idiot is part of the consideration.
They are almost universally used by chavs drug dealers from what I see. I believe one of the preferred makes is Sauron(?). I've had a few verbal "disagreements" with them whilst walking the dogs.
A week or so ago someone was knocked down and critically injured by an e scooter/bike rider - who then sped off. The police were then appealing for wittnesses on their facebook group - yet when you scrolled down they were boasting about having given a few people "warnings"!
They need to be clamped down on with an iron fist as they are becoming an absolute menace.
A week or so ago someone was knocked down and critically injured by an e scooter/bike rider - who then sped off. The police were then appealing for wittnesses on their facebook group - yet when you scrolled down they were boasting about having given a few people "warnings"!
They need to be clamped down on with an iron fist as they are becoming an absolute menace.
Biker9090 said:
They are almost universally used by chavs drug dealers from what I see. I believe one of the preferred makes is Sauron(?). I've had a few verbal "disagreements" with them whilst walking the dogs.
A week or so ago someone was knocked down and critically injured by an e scooter/bike rider - who then sped off. The police were then appealing for wittnesses on their facebook group - yet when you scrolled down they were boasting about having given a few people "warnings"!
They need to be clamped down on with an iron fist as they are becoming an absolute menace.
E-scooter's and e-bikes are completely different. A week or so ago someone was knocked down and critically injured by an e scooter/bike rider - who then sped off. The police were then appealing for wittnesses on their facebook group - yet when you scrolled down they were boasting about having given a few people "warnings"!
They need to be clamped down on with an iron fist as they are becoming an absolute menace.
One is a purely electric mode of transport requiring zero effort and the other needs to be pedalled to move. The e-bike has a motor to assist with pedalling but doesn't replace it. At the legal limit of 15.5mph they are actually typically ridden slower than an unassisted bike in most cases apart from very steep inclines (due to being heavier when the the motor stops assisting).
It is e-scooters that are gaining a bad rep of late, not e-bikes as such. I see plenty of e-bikes every day, usually ridden by elderly folk in the countryside or tourists.
I think if you ride one like a dick, you will have issues. If you behave sensibly you will be unlikely to have issues with BiB. If you do have an accident there will almost certainly be questions to answer. You can program these bikes to be legal, so if road riding you could just set the power level and peddle assist level. It will only take a few button presses.
If I was riding in city centres or even through a town, I would probably stay legal as there would be little point in getting points etc for the little bit of gain. Out in the country lanes where I ride mine I would quite happily ride something not quite legal. But then on my ride today which was juts over 20 miles i met 3 cars and a few sheep
If I was riding in city centres or even through a town, I would probably stay legal as there would be little point in getting points etc for the little bit of gain. Out in the country lanes where I ride mine I would quite happily ride something not quite legal. But then on my ride today which was juts over 20 miles i met 3 cars and a few sheep
From I I've seen/know locally...
Legal ebikes that are derestricted tend to fly under the radar, as do the semi legal 250w/350w kit ebikes. This is assuming they're aren't been ridden like an idiot and drawing attention to themselves. They aren't powerful enough to be that dangerous, 30mph on the flat and far slower on any type of gradient.
Then there's the 52v/1000w+ kits with dustbin lid sized rear hub motors which are blatantly obvious that plod do tend to get upset about.
Regardless of if the ebike is legal or not, as a driver if you hit a more vulnerable road user its probably not going to end well for you unless you have an iron clad defence and dashcam footage to back it up.
Legal ebikes that are derestricted tend to fly under the radar, as do the semi legal 250w/350w kit ebikes. This is assuming they're aren't been ridden like an idiot and drawing attention to themselves. They aren't powerful enough to be that dangerous, 30mph on the flat and far slower on any type of gradient.
Then there's the 52v/1000w+ kits with dustbin lid sized rear hub motors which are blatantly obvious that plod do tend to get upset about.
Regardless of if the ebike is legal or not, as a driver if you hit a more vulnerable road user its probably not going to end well for you unless you have an iron clad defence and dashcam footage to back it up.
I don't think the form of propulsion, or the fact that they're insured/legal etc either is relevant. It's about who was at fault and the burden of proof and evidence IF both parties stop and exchange details. You'd have to define 'riding dangerously' as that's a bit vague, and what happened etc
For example, if a motorbike that is untaxed, is involved in a nice simple clear cut accident where a 3rd party is 100% liable (pulled out at a roundabout and didn't give way) then the driver cannot say 'You shouldn't be on the road, therefore you can't claim'.
The same applies to a cyclist, assisted propulsion or not. As long as they're not liable for the accident, in which case I can guarantee you wont see them for dust if there is damage to your car.....
For example, if a motorbike that is untaxed, is involved in a nice simple clear cut accident where a 3rd party is 100% liable (pulled out at a roundabout and didn't give way) then the driver cannot say 'You shouldn't be on the road, therefore you can't claim'.
The same applies to a cyclist, assisted propulsion or not. As long as they're not liable for the accident, in which case I can guarantee you wont see them for dust if there is damage to your car.....
First day in the Isle of Man for the TT few years back, we came out of the hotel, stood on the front, and some lad comes whizzing up the prom, no pedalling and doing stupid speed, like 45 or 50 mph, loads of cars and bikes and taxis about. So he whizzed up the inside of a taxi outside the hotel which was dropping passengers off, so close to hitting it, then pulled back out, got his front caught funny in the tram line and down he went onto his face and he slid miles up the road! He was so messed up, it was pretty awful, but tbh, no one’s fault but his own. His fingers were hanging off and legs were like mince!
You have to think they don’t really think things through, properly.
You have to think they don’t really think things through, properly.
Decky_Q said:
We are looking at electric bikes at the moment and have the option of spending £1700 each in halford for an entry level legal 250w 12mph assisted bike, OR
Buy a 2500w hub motor, equivalent sized battery and controller from amazon for less than £1000 and fit it to my existing bike (which has hydraulic discs, thick trial tyres, heavy duty suspension/frame etc).
I am tempted by both and havent really made my mind up yet, the fact that theres no enforcement as long as you arent being an idiot is part of the consideration.
I suppose if you have a motorcycle licence you could build your own unrestricted bike and register, tax and insure it? If you don’t have a licence the second option is just equivalent to getting a motorcycle and riding it illegally - which I suspect is something you wouldn’t do?Buy a 2500w hub motor, equivalent sized battery and controller from amazon for less than £1000 and fit it to my existing bike (which has hydraulic discs, thick trial tyres, heavy duty suspension/frame etc).
I am tempted by both and havent really made my mind up yet, the fact that theres no enforcement as long as you arent being an idiot is part of the consideration.
Foss62 said:
I suppose if you have a motorcycle licence you could build your own unrestricted bike and register, tax and insure it? If you don’t have a licence the second option is just equivalent to getting a motorcycle and riding it illegally - which I suspect is something you wouldn’t do?
You have to IVA it, then register the new vehicle with the DVLA, then find a garage that can MOT it. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff