Nicked for no right turn -confusing signage,worth an appeal?
Discussion
Hi all
Got nicked today for doing a right hand turn when signage says no right hand turn.
Travelling through lovely Hatfield following sat nav as I don’t know the area at all. I’m coming down Goldsmith way to its junction with Tamblin way. Stop at the lights with a car in front of me. I’ve noticed the signage before the junction saying no right turn 20m before the junction. The lights go green ( it’s a straight up green arrow and there’s “AHEAD ONLY “painted on the floor ) car in front turns left into what looks like a private car park, I pull forward and I’m confronted by this
And I immediately see the signage to the left , a big red no entry sign - buses only.
It throws me into a bit of a tizzy as I can’t go left into a private car park ( which with hindsight maybe I should have done) As it’s “ahead only” can’t go straight on as it’s a no entry but there was also that no right turn sign before the junction, I’ve got several cars behind me and being a little disoriented and in a bit of a flap I make the rash decision to go right (safely I might add) then I get 100m down the road and the blue lights come on ……
I get out and start to explain that the signage says ahead only but I was then faced with a no entry sign! But the pc just didn’t want to engage and launches straight into the legal spiel.
So I’m feeling a little hard done by as although I know I did wrong turning right the signage led me to believe I would have also done wrong no matter which way I went.
Is it worth an appeal or do I just suck it up ??
Got nicked today for doing a right hand turn when signage says no right hand turn.
Travelling through lovely Hatfield following sat nav as I don’t know the area at all. I’m coming down Goldsmith way to its junction with Tamblin way. Stop at the lights with a car in front of me. I’ve noticed the signage before the junction saying no right turn 20m before the junction. The lights go green ( it’s a straight up green arrow and there’s “AHEAD ONLY “painted on the floor ) car in front turns left into what looks like a private car park, I pull forward and I’m confronted by this
And I immediately see the signage to the left , a big red no entry sign - buses only.
It throws me into a bit of a tizzy as I can’t go left into a private car park ( which with hindsight maybe I should have done) As it’s “ahead only” can’t go straight on as it’s a no entry but there was also that no right turn sign before the junction, I’ve got several cars behind me and being a little disoriented and in a bit of a flap I make the rash decision to go right (safely I might add) then I get 100m down the road and the blue lights come on ……
I get out and start to explain that the signage says ahead only but I was then faced with a no entry sign! But the pc just didn’t want to engage and launches straight into the legal spiel.
So I’m feeling a little hard done by as although I know I did wrong turning right the signage led me to believe I would have also done wrong no matter which way I went.
Is it worth an appeal or do I just suck it up ??
bad company said:
I’d appeal if the signage is unclear.
To be honest the signage is perfectly clear - well posted , big lettering on the floor saying “ahead only” green traffic light is a big arrow pointing straight up , but when you get into the junction you’re confronted with a no entry sign, so now I’m in between a rock and a hard place. Went back and took photos and it would seem that the no entry sign refers to the left hand exit , it’s just at an angle which made me think it was referring to straight ahead. I can only assume it’s been installed incorrectly or some little tyke has twisted it around.
You misread the signage.
Approaching the lights is a no right turn sign. On the road is painted ahead only. This is an instruction.
The car park has the no entry sign (except buses) but there is no restriction on going ahead. That is where you should have gone.your only possible claim is on signage either bing missing or covered but it looks to be pretty clear from Google maps.
Approaching the lights is a no right turn sign. On the road is painted ahead only. This is an instruction.
The car park has the no entry sign (except buses) but there is no restriction on going ahead. That is where you should have gone.your only possible claim is on signage either bing missing or covered but it looks to be pretty clear from Google maps.
Starfighter said:
You misread the signage.
Approaching the lights is a no right turn sign. On the road is painted ahead only. This is an instruction.
The car park has the no entry sign (except buses) but there is no restriction on going ahead. That is where you should have gone.your only possible claim is on signage either bing missing or covered but it looks to be pretty clear from Google maps.
Yes absolutely mis- read signage Approaching the lights is a no right turn sign. On the road is painted ahead only. This is an instruction.
The car park has the no entry sign (except buses) but there is no restriction on going ahead. That is where you should have gone.your only possible claim is on signage either bing missing or covered but it looks to be pretty clear from Google maps.
Absolutely did a right hand turn despite signage against it.
My point is that the positioning of and the angle the no entry sign is mounted at could be easily misconstrued (as I did) to be referring to going straight ahead
I’ve looked on street view and that shows the junction from the opposite side of the road which gives a different perspective than from when viewed from behind the wheel as in my pic above
Given that it was an ahead only junction but I’m faced with a no entry sign if I do that , then I was screwed no matter which way I went
I doubt you’d have any chance of appeal tbh.
Have you received a fixed penalty notice and fine? If so it sounds a bit harsh and this is what winds me up. Simple mistake as a driver and you get a relatively harsh and more of a fine than if you went and shoplifted or something.
A simple warning and show you the signage properly so you can understand where you went wrong and for future reference surely would’ve been a better outcome.
Have you received a fixed penalty notice and fine? If so it sounds a bit harsh and this is what winds me up. Simple mistake as a driver and you get a relatively harsh and more of a fine than if you went and shoplifted or something.
A simple warning and show you the signage properly so you can understand where you went wrong and for future reference surely would’ve been a better outcome.
Geffg said:
I doubt you’d have any chance of appeal tbh.
Have you received a fixed penalty notice and fine? If so it sounds a bit harsh and this is what winds me up. Simple mistake as a driver and you get a relatively harsh and more of a fine than if you went and shoplifted or something.
A simple warning and show you the signage properly so you can understand where you went wrong and for future reference surely would’ve been a better outcome.
I agree. I'm sure OP won't be the only person who got confused. Also would be nice to see some common sense from the plod and maybe issue a caution or something like that.Have you received a fixed penalty notice and fine? If so it sounds a bit harsh and this is what winds me up. Simple mistake as a driver and you get a relatively harsh and more of a fine than if you went and shoplifted or something.
A simple warning and show you the signage properly so you can understand where you went wrong and for future reference surely would’ve been a better outcome.
Had a look at google maps and I stand corrected, signage is pretty clear. You have no right turn sign before the traffic lights together with ahead only. Also the shape of that junction suggests that turning right is not permitted.
I'm sorry OP, but I don't think you will have any chance of successful appeal.
I'm sorry OP, but I don't think you will have any chance of successful appeal.
danashby said:
Had a look at google maps and I stand corrected, signage is pretty clear. You have no right turn sign before the traffic lights together with ahead only. Also the shape of that junction suggests that turning right is not permitted.
I'm sorry OP, but I don't think you will have any chance of successful appeal.
It's a lot clearer in Streetview, with pictures from last year, the other No Entry sign isn't hidden by the bushes.I'm sorry OP, but I don't think you will have any chance of successful appeal.
But it looks like 'ahead' doesn't go anywhere much, so you have to eventually turn around and turn left into Tamblin Way.
danashby said:
Geffg said:
I doubt you’d have any chance of appeal tbh.
Have you received a fixed penalty notice and fine? If so it sounds a bit harsh and this is what winds me up. Simple mistake as a driver and you get a relatively harsh and more of a fine than if you went and shoplifted or something.
A simple warning and show you the signage properly so you can understand where you went wrong and for future reference surely would’ve been a better outcome.
I agree. I'm sure OP won't be the only person who got confused. Also would be nice to see some common sense from the plod and maybe issue a caution or something like that.Have you received a fixed penalty notice and fine? If so it sounds a bit harsh and this is what winds me up. Simple mistake as a driver and you get a relatively harsh and more of a fine than if you went and shoplifted or something.
A simple warning and show you the signage properly so you can understand where you went wrong and for future reference surely would’ve been a better outcome.
Morning all
Read the paperwork the pc gave me yesterday and it seem I “may” be offered a retraining course in lieu of a fine/ points.
Feeling slightly better about the situation because I think that’s probably a better punishment for my “crime” of making a poor decision in a moment of confusion with no damage done , rather than points and fine.
I’ll update once I receive the notification
Thanks all for your replies.
Read the paperwork the pc gave me yesterday and it seem I “may” be offered a retraining course in lieu of a fine/ points.
Feeling slightly better about the situation because I think that’s probably a better punishment for my “crime” of making a poor decision in a moment of confusion with no damage done , rather than points and fine.
I’ll update once I receive the notification
Thanks all for your replies.
OP: Can offer no legal insight but, from the photo posted, I too would have made the same 'mistake'....
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7643619,-0.2393197...
The signage is clear.... but open to interpretation (is it an instruction to cars on the OP's road or the road to the OP's right?) because, as Google shows, the No Entry sign and the exception are at slightly different angles
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7643466,-0.2394427...
And
The OP's photo shows traffic on 'his' side of the road after the bollards -and whilst this traffic may have turned right (from the right after the bollards) it does seem confusing that ....... judging from the photo the 'Except Buses' extends from the bollards to just a few yards past the bollards.
Did your sat nav direct you to turn right?
When I'm Dictator I would, on pain of death, have road traffic signage/lane marking improved:
If 'they' wish to stop you entering a road, not only would there be improved signage but also double RED lines painted on the roads meaning NO entry...
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7643619,-0.2393197...
The signage is clear.... but open to interpretation (is it an instruction to cars on the OP's road or the road to the OP's right?) because, as Google shows, the No Entry sign and the exception are at slightly different angles
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7643466,-0.2394427...
And
The OP's photo shows traffic on 'his' side of the road after the bollards -and whilst this traffic may have turned right (from the right after the bollards) it does seem confusing that ....... judging from the photo the 'Except Buses' extends from the bollards to just a few yards past the bollards.
Did your sat nav direct you to turn right?
When I'm Dictator I would, on pain of death, have road traffic signage/lane marking improved:
If 'they' wish to stop you entering a road, not only would there be improved signage but also double RED lines painted on the roads meaning NO entry...
Rockettvr said:
Morning all
Read the paperwork the pc gave me yesterday and it seem I “may” be offered a retraining course in lieu of a fine/ points.
Feeling slightly better about the situation because I think that’s probably a better punishment for my “crime” of making a poor decision in a moment of confusion with no damage done , rather than points and fine.
I’ll update once I receive the notification
Thanks all for your replies.
I hope you get a chance to do that course, it's better to educate than fine.Read the paperwork the pc gave me yesterday and it seem I “may” be offered a retraining course in lieu of a fine/ points.
Feeling slightly better about the situation because I think that’s probably a better punishment for my “crime” of making a poor decision in a moment of confusion with no damage done , rather than points and fine.
I’ll update once I receive the notification
Thanks all for your replies.
Not in the slightest relevant, but it reminds me of 21 year old me's mistake, 49 years ago.
In Italy with my girlfriend, in a city, Pisa I think.
I come to a 6 way junction, two lefts, two rights, one straight on, not sure which way I want to go, looking for road signs to Genoa..
I catch a glimpse of a road sign saying I needed to turn right, having almost completely crossed the junction.
Remember, I am on the right hand side of the road.
Quick as a flash, I did a 270 degree left turn, girlfriend screaming (again).........and drove triumphantly straight into a one way street. One way the other way. The right turn I wanted was the other right turn at the junction.
Got politely corrected by a car coming the other way down the one way street and was able to do a three point turn.
It was a nicer time, before our lives were ruled by cameras and there was too much traffic everywhere.
That was the same touring holiday where my Mini headlights suddenly failed coming down Mount Vesuvius at night, and the drum brakes faded to nothing coming down the Gross Glockner pass, luckily only two hairpins from the end.
In Italy with my girlfriend, in a city, Pisa I think.
I come to a 6 way junction, two lefts, two rights, one straight on, not sure which way I want to go, looking for road signs to Genoa..
I catch a glimpse of a road sign saying I needed to turn right, having almost completely crossed the junction.
Remember, I am on the right hand side of the road.
Quick as a flash, I did a 270 degree left turn, girlfriend screaming (again).........and drove triumphantly straight into a one way street. One way the other way. The right turn I wanted was the other right turn at the junction.
Got politely corrected by a car coming the other way down the one way street and was able to do a three point turn.
It was a nicer time, before our lives were ruled by cameras and there was too much traffic everywhere.
That was the same touring holiday where my Mini headlights suddenly failed coming down Mount Vesuvius at night, and the drum brakes faded to nothing coming down the Gross Glockner pass, luckily only two hairpins from the end.
Unless you are a bit hard up OP I’d forget the appeal.
It is a non endorsable fine (no points, nothing on licence) of about £40, then you get stuck with costs and a victim surcharge adding up to about £130 all in I think.
I got done for the same offence in a different place and like you mine was a genuine mistake and I’d have much more appreciated a hey did you not notice the no right turn, don’t do that again, rather than the fine.
When you get the paperwork through it will ask you for any mitigating circumstances or similar, you can try putting your case forward there but unlikely to work.
It is a non endorsable fine (no points, nothing on licence) of about £40, then you get stuck with costs and a victim surcharge adding up to about £130 all in I think.
I got done for the same offence in a different place and like you mine was a genuine mistake and I’d have much more appreciated a hey did you not notice the no right turn, don’t do that again, rather than the fine.
When you get the paperwork through it will ask you for any mitigating circumstances or similar, you can try putting your case forward there but unlikely to work.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff