Penalty Fare Notice (Train)
Discussion
My son was given a fine for not having a ticket on the train to college this morning.
I had actually renewed his season ticket 20mins before but he hadn't put it on his railcard. He also separately bought a single ticket (£1.73) from the machine just to be sure but this was for the train after the one he caught.
He was travelling from A to B at 10.06
The penalty ticket he has says he was travelling B to A at 08.59. Whilst it has my son's correct name and dob on it, the ticket has the incorrect address on it as well as obviously being the wrong train and time.
The fine is £103 or half if paid early.
Surely with this amount of incorrect information on it, it's unenforceable? Then there's the fact that it has the wrong address (as in an address that doesn't actually exist)
Should I file it accordingly or should he cough up?
I had actually renewed his season ticket 20mins before but he hadn't put it on his railcard. He also separately bought a single ticket (£1.73) from the machine just to be sure but this was for the train after the one he caught.
He was travelling from A to B at 10.06
The penalty ticket he has says he was travelling B to A at 08.59. Whilst it has my son's correct name and dob on it, the ticket has the incorrect address on it as well as obviously being the wrong train and time.
The fine is £103 or half if paid early.
Surely with this amount of incorrect information on it, it's unenforceable? Then there's the fact that it has the wrong address (as in an address that doesn't actually exist)
Should I file it accordingly or should he cough up?
I renewed his season ticket at 09.17 (with proof)
He was on the 10.04 train (which was running a few minutes late). I saw and have him on cctv leaving the house at 10.03.
He got to the platform before the delayed 10.04 arrived. He bought a ticket from the machine, but because it was after 10.04 the ticket he bought was for the following train (unbeknownst to him in his rush)
The problem is that the penalty notice is (incorrectly) timestamped at 08.59. Presumably because the inspector's ticket machine has the wrong time on it. This time conflicts with the 09.17 ticket purchase.
He was on the 10.04 train (which was running a few minutes late). I saw and have him on cctv leaving the house at 10.03.
He got to the platform before the delayed 10.04 arrived. He bought a ticket from the machine, but because it was after 10.04 the ticket he bought was for the following train (unbeknownst to him in his rush)
The problem is that the penalty notice is (incorrectly) timestamped at 08.59. Presumably because the inspector's ticket machine has the wrong time on it. This time conflicts with the 09.17 ticket purchase.
shed driver said:
ben5575 said:
shed driver said:
Asking because I'm curious rather than to be a dick.
If he had a season ticket but hadn't got it with him at the time he was stopped isn't that travelling without a ticket?
As in back in the days of physical rail passes if I'd left it at home and got stopped I'd have assumed saying "I've got one but it's at home" wouldn't have helped me even if I'd produced it down the line?
If he had a season ticket but hadn't got it with him at the time he was stopped isn't that travelling without a ticket?
As in back in the days of physical rail passes if I'd left it at home and got stopped I'd have assumed saying "I've got one but it's at home" wouldn't have helped me even if I'd produced it down the line?
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Asking because I'm curious rather than to be a dick.
If he had a season ticket but hadn't got it with him at the time he was stopped isn't that travelling without a ticket?
As in back in the days of physical rail passes if I'd left it at home and got stopped I'd have assumed saying "I've got one but it's at home" wouldn't have helped me even if I'd produced it down the line?
Oh no I get that. He did have a season ticket but couldn’t prove it when he was on the train. If he had a season ticket but hadn't got it with him at the time he was stopped isn't that travelling without a ticket?
As in back in the days of physical rail passes if I'd left it at home and got stopped I'd have assumed saying "I've got one but it's at home" wouldn't have helped me even if I'd produced it down the line?
Perhaps the direct question is whether a ticket that states that he was travelling on a different train to the one he was on at a time that he wasn’t travelling is still valid?
It seems to me there are 2 separate issues here, not having the season ticket in his possession and travelling on a train with a ticket that was not valid for that train.
If you forget your season ticket you are supposed to buy the correct ticket for the journey and then claim back the cost afterwards. The OP's son seemingly tried to do that but unfortunately bought a ticket that was not valid on the train he travelled on. To the revenue inspector this would look suspiciously like someone buying a cheaper ticket (to operate ticket gates for example) and chancing it. This will come as a total shock but many people tell porkies to revenue inspectors to try and justify having an invalid ticket and they've heard them all a thousand times before. "I've got a season ticket at home, honest" is an old favourite.
However, and assuming the story being told by the OP is accurate and it can be demonstrated the season ticket was indeed purchased before the journey, one would hope the train company will drop the penalty fare and refund the ticket which was bought. One caveat though, material mistakes like times and journey details on penalty fare notices whilst not unprecedented, are not very common. Fare evaders often give false addresses too. That gives a hint of suspicion that the actual sequence of events here may not be precisely as described so before attempting to get this overturned I would advise making absolutely sure that you are certain what actually happened, or, to put it bluntly, make sure your son is telling you the truth.
If you forget your season ticket you are supposed to buy the correct ticket for the journey and then claim back the cost afterwards. The OP's son seemingly tried to do that but unfortunately bought a ticket that was not valid on the train he travelled on. To the revenue inspector this would look suspiciously like someone buying a cheaper ticket (to operate ticket gates for example) and chancing it. This will come as a total shock but many people tell porkies to revenue inspectors to try and justify having an invalid ticket and they've heard them all a thousand times before. "I've got a season ticket at home, honest" is an old favourite.
However, and assuming the story being told by the OP is accurate and it can be demonstrated the season ticket was indeed purchased before the journey, one would hope the train company will drop the penalty fare and refund the ticket which was bought. One caveat though, material mistakes like times and journey details on penalty fare notices whilst not unprecedented, are not very common. Fare evaders often give false addresses too. That gives a hint of suspicion that the actual sequence of events here may not be precisely as described so before attempting to get this overturned I would advise making absolutely sure that you are certain what actually happened, or, to put it bluntly, make sure your son is telling you the truth.
Edited by siremoon on Saturday 24th June 08:41
siremoon said:
. That gives a hint of suspicion that the actual sequence of events here may not be precisely as described so before attempting to get this overturned I would advise making absolutely sure that you are certain what actually happened, or, to put it bluntly, make sure your son is telling you the truth.
Wise wordsI finally got to the bottom of it last night (not that he’s admitted it)
He stopped out the night before at a friend’s house ‘in the village’. Turns out he hadn’t. He’d actually gone into town and the penalty was for his return trip home in the morning. Hence why it was an hour earlier than the train he said he got it on and going in the wrong direction.
Basically this
ben5575 said:
siremoon said:
. , to put it bluntly, make sure your son is telling you the truth.
Wise words"My son/daughter/partner/etc. wouldn't do that" is an often quoted phrase in a lot of threads
I sometimes wonder how many of these other threads end up with a very similar situation. I tend to think that most threads, where the OP does not come back to relay the final outcome, involve someone close to home who was a little bit loose with the truth.
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