18 year old daughter-magistrates court for driving offences

[Alfa Pete]

My 18 year old daughter has been an idiot, and is due in magistrates court for 2 driving offences-driving without consideration to other road users - unsafe overtake and for carrying 6 occupants in her car.🙄
Having looked at the police statement, which is pretty damning, I have advised her to attend court , plead guilty , be remorseful and hope for the best.
Pretty sure she will have her licence revoked. She’s definitely learnt a hard lesson and will genuinely learn from it.
Has anyone had a newly qualified driver in this position and can you offer any advice?
She is going to University in September so I suppose she won’t really need to drive for the next 3 years………🤔

Edited by Alfa Pete on Friday 21st July 22:31

[Alex Z]

No first hand experience, but your advice is pretty much all she can do.
A ban is highly likely.

[Pica-Pica]

I guess the first two may be subjective, but the carrying 6 people is presumably not. A harsh lesson to learn. Put it behind her until after Uni. As said, turn up, be remorseful ‘I want to get beyond this and concentrate on my studies’ type of thing.

[Aretnap]

Alex Z said:

No first hand experience, but your advice is pretty much all she can do.
A ban is highly likely.

A ban is pretty unlikely. Revocation of her licence is rather more likely, but that isn't the same as a ban.

[Alfa Pete]

Pica-Pica said:

I guess the first two may be subjective, but the carrying 6 people is presumably not. A harsh lesson to learn. Put it behind her until after Uni. As said, turn up, be remorseful ‘I want to get beyond this and concentrate on my studies’ type of thing.

I have told her to expect the worst. Even if she does have to retake her test with Uni looming it will be a while before she can take it then she will likely be lumbered with 6 or more points for the next 4 years which will make her as a young driver all but uninsurable any way.😕

Edited by Alfa Pete on Friday 21st July 23:20

[Oliver Hardy]

Alfa Pete said:

My 18 year old daughter has been an idiot, and is due in magistrates court for 2 driving offences-driving without consideration to other road users - unsafe overtake and for carrying 6 occupants in her car.??
Having looked at the police statement, which is pretty damning, I have advised her to attend court , plead guilty , be remorseful and hope for the best.
Pretty sure she will have her licence revoked. She’s definitely learnt a hard lesson and will genuinely learn from it.
Has anyone had a newly qualified driver in this position and can you offer any advice?
She is going to University in September so I suppose she won’t really need to drive for the next 3 years………??

Edited by Alfa Pete on Friday 21st July 22:31

Is there such an offence as carrying 6 occupants in her car? Isn't it a seat belt offence?

If you can afford it see a lawyer, she might escape a revocation of her licence.

[LosingGrip]

Oliver Hardy said:

Is there such an offence as carrying 6 occupants in her car? Isn't it a seat belt offence?

If you can afford it see a lawyer, she might escape a revocation of her licence.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/40/part/I/crossheading/construction-and-use/enacted/data.xht?view=snippet&wrap=true

Section 40A.

A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when—
(a)the condition of the motor vehicle or trailer, or of its accessories or equipment, or
(b)the purpose for which it is used, or
(c)the number of passengers carried by it, or the manner in which they are carried, or
(d)the weight, position or distribution of its load, or the manner in which it is secured,is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person.”

£100 fine and three points normally.

OP were both offences at the same time? From previous experience (police side) the courts tend to only deal with one and give no separate punishment if there is more than one offence.

[Ninja59]

I honestly think they will focus on the 1st as opposed to the 2nd. I think like other a revoked license and back to being a learner.

Maybe a tough lesson is what is needed, sadly. Having been at 6th form and having had one of my year group kill 2 of them out of 4 it creates a lifetime of very divided social groups from a single group.

[Alfa Pete]

LosingGrip said:

Oliver Hardy said:

Is there such an offence as carrying 6 occupants in her car? Isn't it a seat belt offence?

If you can afford it see a lawyer, she might escape a revocation of her licence.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/40/part/I/crossheading/construction-and-use/enacted/data.xht?view=snippet&wrap=true

Section 40A.

A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when—
(a)the condition of the motor vehicle or trailer, or of its accessories or equipment, or
(b)the purpose for which it is used, or
(c)the number of passengers carried by it, or the manner in which they are carried, or
(d)the weight, position or distribution of its load, or the manner in which it is secured,is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person.”

£100 fine and three points normally.

OP were both offences at the same time? From previous experience (police side) the courts tend to only deal with one and give no separate punishment if there is more than one offence.

Yes both at the same time. She was driving friends home from the pub rather than let them walk and got stopped by what the police deemed an unsafe overtake.
They say she was endangering the additional passenger by having her in the car.
As I said to her it , really doesn’t look good and on that one she is just going to have to own it.

[Alfa Pete]

Ninja59 said:

I honestly think they will focus on the 1st as opposed to the 2nd. I think like other a revoked license and back to being a learner.

Maybe a tough lesson is what is needed, sadly. Having been at 6th form and having had one of my year group kill 2 of them out of 4 it creates a lifetime of very divided social groups from a single group.

That is a very sad story and I did say to her that it was due to those kind of events that young drivers have been clamped down upon.
I did many stupid things as a young driver, I was lucky but I think back in horror now as to mine and many friends actions and attitudes to driving.

[SAS Tom]

I worked with a lad that had his license revoked after totting up due to speeding offences.

He had to pass his test again and got another car. His insurance was £6000 for the first year on a diesel golf.

[kestral]

Alfa Pete said:

My 18 year old daughter has been an idiot, and is due in magistrates court for 2 driving offences-driving without consideration to other road users - unsafe overtake and for carrying 6 occupants in her car.??
Having looked at the police statement, which is pretty damning, I have advised her to attend court , plead guilty , be remorseful and hope for the best.
Pretty sure she will have her licence revoked. She’s definitely learnt a hard lesson and will genuinely learn from it.
Has anyone had a newly qualified driver in this position and can you offer any advice?
She is going to University in September so I suppose she won’t really need to drive for the next 3 years………??

Edited by Alfa Pete on Friday 21st July 22:31

If she is pleading guilty she should not go to court unless required to, the magistrates do not want to hear some sob story that wastes court time.

[Chubbyross]

kestral said:

Alfa Pete said:

My 18 year old daughter has been an idiot, and is due in magistrates court for 2 driving offences-driving without consideration to other road users - unsafe overtake and for carrying 6 occupants in her car.??
Having looked at the police statement, which is pretty damning, I have advised her to attend court , plead guilty , be remorseful and hope for the best.
Pretty sure she will have her licence revoked. She’s definitely learnt a hard lesson and will genuinely learn from it.
Has anyone had a newly qualified driver in this position and can you offer any advice?
She is going to University in September so I suppose she won’t really need to drive for the next 3 years………??

Edited by Alfa Pete on Friday 21st July 22:31

If she is pleading guilty she should not go to court unless required to, the magistrates do not want to hear some sob story that wastes court time.

Read the post. The OP’s daughter won’t be offering up a ‘sob story’. She’s going to apologise. Magistrates can see that positively. I did it years ago for speeding on a motorbike. Turned up suited and booted, showed respect and remorse and didn’t receive the ban I was expecting.

[RobbyJ]

Chubbyross said:

Read the post. The OP’s daughter won’t be offering up a ‘sob story’. She’s going to apologise. Magistrates can see that positively. I did it years ago for speeding on a motorbike. Turned up suited and booted, showed respect and remorse and didn’t receive the ban I was expecting.

Yep same here, the Magistrate actually commented how seriously I was obviously taking it by turning up in a suit with a solicitor just to basically apologise. I avoided a ban an being on 9 points at the time did teach my a lesson.

I couldn't believe the state of all the other people waiting to go into court, it was like a JD Sports conference.

[agtlaw]

Alfa Pete said:

My 18 year old daughter has been an idiot, and is due in magistrates court for 2 driving offences-driving without consideration to other road users - unsafe overtake and for carrying 6 occupants in her car.??
Having looked at the police statement, which is pretty damning, I have advised her to attend court , plead guilty , be remorseful and hope for the best.
Pretty sure she will have her licence revoked. She’s definitely learnt a hard lesson and will genuinely learn from it.
Has anyone had a newly qualified driver in this position and can you offer any advice?
She is going to University in September so I suppose she won’t really need to drive for the next 3 years………??

Edited by Alfa Pete on Friday 21st July 22:31

How did your get case to this stage? I.e. court hearing pending.

I assume from your post that she has not received a Single Justice Procedure Notice.

If she has received a SJPN then there isn’t a court hearing to attend. At least not unless she elects to have one - which isn’t always the best strategy.

I anticipate penalty points will be endorsed for the careless driving offence with no separate penalty for other matter. Careless driving means 3-9 points (or a ban). If the court orders 5 or fewer points then revocation as a new driver would be avoided.

[dundarach]

No one died, it's a useful lesson.

Whatever the outcome, everyone's okay and she'll move on, grow up and be fine.

[Wafu7]

Alfa Pete said:

Ninja59 said:

I honestly think they will focus on the 1st as opposed to the 2nd. I think like other a revoked license and back to being a learner.

Maybe a tough lesson is what is needed, sadly. Having been at 6th form and having had one of my year group kill 2 of them out of 4 it creates a lifetime of very divided social groups from a single group.

That is a very sad story and I did say to her that it was due to those kind of events that young drivers have been clamped down upon.
I did many stupid things as a young driver, I was lucky but I think back in horror now as to mine and many friends actions and attitudes to driving.

Pete, this is of no value to your daughter’s situation, but I wanted to commend you for your attitude on this and in particular the advice you’ve given her. It’s refreshing to see someone encouraging the owning of a mistake instead of seeking - as so many on this forum attempt or recommend - to wriggle or worm their way out it.

[Mikebentley]

My little brother at 18 was a trainee mechanic. As such all his mates came round for him to fix their stuff. He fixed a friends Suzuki X7 Widow Maker and took it for a test drive. Yep got stopped and was a learner rider, no insurance. To compound things he then said the owner didn’t give him permission so as not to get his mate in trouble. The result was a TWOC conviction.

The outcome though was that he learned his lesson and is squeaky clean to this day about everything not just his vehicular activities. Hopefully the process will scare your daughter into the same outcome as my brother. Hopefully too her friends will learn this is not on too and the chain reaction could ultimately save some young lives.

[mgtony]

Alfa Pete said:

and for carrying 6 occupants in her car.??

Tell the judge she identifies as a clown.

[Pica-Pica]

I am torn between whether a revocation, or whether some form of ‘New Drivers Awareness Course’ should be available for this. Whatever is best for the learning process. Hope she learns and moves on with no future repercussions. Good luck.